Classic car financial incentives?
Discussion
I think it's probably fair to say if you're simply looking for utilitarian transport, you'd go for something modern, but if you fancy something with a bit of character and everyday potential, does it make financial sense to go for a classic?
I'm trying to think of the various loopholes and allowances you can make use of when running an older car. As far as I can see they are:
I'm trying to think of the various loopholes and allowances you can make use of when running an older car. As far as I can see they are:
- Insurance (particularly if you're a younger driver - it works out cheaper for me to have a classic and a daily driver than any decent modern performance car on its own)
- No road tax on pre-73 vehicles (and the old capacity-based rate for more recent classics)
- Exempt from company car tax (I believe - seem to remember hearing this, can anyone comment?)
- No congestion charge if you happen to be in London
For the more usual classics- fords, MG's, Triumphs etc you can get everything, at very reasonable value. For some others, parts are becomming difficult and it might take a small piece to take your car off the road for months. And you'll need to buy a lot more parts for them then you would a more modern car. If you can do all this yourself, then they can be cheap to run
They need manintaining more oftern- som cars will have grease nipples which need greasing every 5,000 miles or 6 months. And that menats crawling around under the car (or paying someone else to do it)
They are cheap to buy, and wont depreciatre. But dont expect to make money when you sell.
Thwy will use more fuel then a modern car of simmilar type
They wont be as confortable, have as many creature comforts, and be positively lethal in a crash- if you drive a classic like you would a modern, you could be in big trouble. Even a low speed crash could have serious consequences. And I'd hate to drive a classic into a modern car- you will come off worst, regardless of type of cars involved. This is perhaps the single biggest advance in cars over the past 20 years, and should not be underestimated. Modern cars, made of high strength steel are designed to survive an impact with other modern, high strength steel. A classic, with cheap steel/rust/no crumple zones will not be pretty.
Here's an example. Due to my own stupidity, my 1971 Aston ran into the back of a Ford Focus in a carpark (I left the handbrake off). Ther Focus had a small dent in the rear bumper. Probably £400 (new part, paint etc). For the same impact, mine needed a new chrome bumper, new grill, bodywork repairs to the aluminium, front end respray and a few others- somewhat more then the £400....
Sorry for the reality check. Yes you can run one cheaper then a modern in terms of fuel and insurance, buy you'll need to get your hands dirty probably once every two weeks to keep it cheaper. And there's no guaranteee it will start if the weather is cold/wet/warm/hot/cloudy.
But they are great fun. I would'nt use one as my one car, however. I havent got the time.
They need manintaining more oftern- som cars will have grease nipples which need greasing every 5,000 miles or 6 months. And that menats crawling around under the car (or paying someone else to do it)
They are cheap to buy, and wont depreciatre. But dont expect to make money when you sell.
Thwy will use more fuel then a modern car of simmilar type
They wont be as confortable, have as many creature comforts, and be positively lethal in a crash- if you drive a classic like you would a modern, you could be in big trouble. Even a low speed crash could have serious consequences. And I'd hate to drive a classic into a modern car- you will come off worst, regardless of type of cars involved. This is perhaps the single biggest advance in cars over the past 20 years, and should not be underestimated. Modern cars, made of high strength steel are designed to survive an impact with other modern, high strength steel. A classic, with cheap steel/rust/no crumple zones will not be pretty.
Here's an example. Due to my own stupidity, my 1971 Aston ran into the back of a Ford Focus in a carpark (I left the handbrake off). Ther Focus had a small dent in the rear bumper. Probably £400 (new part, paint etc). For the same impact, mine needed a new chrome bumper, new grill, bodywork repairs to the aluminium, front end respray and a few others- somewhat more then the £400....
Sorry for the reality check. Yes you can run one cheaper then a modern in terms of fuel and insurance, buy you'll need to get your hands dirty probably once every two weeks to keep it cheaper. And there's no guaranteee it will start if the weather is cold/wet/warm/hot/cloudy.
But they are great fun. I would'nt use one as my one car, however. I havent got the time.
Doh! I didn't realise they'd got rid of the congestion charge loophole.
The reality check isn't a problem. Having owned a 'retro' cars and grown up with vehicles dating back to the early thirties I'm aware that they're not up to modern standards in most subjective respects, but I wondered what the difference in running costs would be if you're willing to get your hands dirty and invest some time.
Does anyone know if the company car tax loophole still stands?
Depreciation (or even appreciation in some cases) is a good point I guess.
The reality check isn't a problem. Having owned a 'retro' cars and grown up with vehicles dating back to the early thirties I'm aware that they're not up to modern standards in most subjective respects, but I wondered what the difference in running costs would be if you're willing to get your hands dirty and invest some time.
Does anyone know if the company car tax loophole still stands?
Depreciation (or even appreciation in some cases) is a good point I guess.
I looked at lots of options, both modern and classic and in the end it was a classic that won the day based on:
Classic Insurance - £167 per annum fully comp 3000 mile limit compared to £1000 for a Noble on 3000 limit.
Road Tax - What road tax? Its free! Yipee!
Depreciation - Buy carefully and you'll get your money back, and the classic car market is an interesting one, its a bit like watching commodities, things peak and trough but a bit of careful research should put you right.
Fun - My car has more carbs than seats - and that in my book is a good thing!
Classic Insurance - £167 per annum fully comp 3000 mile limit compared to £1000 for a Noble on 3000 limit.
Road Tax - What road tax? Its free! Yipee!
Depreciation - Buy carefully and you'll get your money back, and the classic car market is an interesting one, its a bit like watching commodities, things peak and trough but a bit of careful research should put you right.
Fun - My car has more carbs than seats - and that in my book is a good thing!
You can do your own servicing on a classic, much simpler. I don't see why a carefully selected late 1960's early 1970's car needs to be unreliable, especially with a few mods such as electronic ignition etc. What about a Merc?
I would have thought lack of depreciation is one of the biggets assets.
An Aston is hardly a typical example for comparison, and I would guess that an MGB for example would be much cheaper to repair than most moderns.
Do you have a shortlist?
I would have thought lack of depreciation is one of the biggets assets.
An Aston is hardly a typical example for comparison, and I would guess that an MGB for example would be much cheaper to repair than most moderns.
Do you have a shortlist?
andye30m3 said:
I quite fancy a Jaguar XK150 FHC as an every day car.
The only thing I think you'd need to be very careful about would be rust proofing. Salty winter roads would not be kind to an XK150. Other than that they make great cars. I use mine when I can when the roads aren't salty. I found a council website which talked about road salting. It said which roads they treat and when they were planning to treat them so I got a good idea of when I thought it was safe to use. Last winter I missed out because my 150 was off the road having had the bonnet come open of the motorway. It's apparently a well known XK150 (the bonnet catch arrangement for 150s is different and worse than the 120 and 140) problem. But the year before that I was still using the 150 to go to the gym first thing in the morning through to early December, and then it was about 6 weeks till the roads were salt free again. Give you time to do all those jobs you don't want to do when you could be driving.
The XK forum on Jag-Lovers at the moment has a great thread about using an XK as daily driver. Read Bruce Cunningham's posting.
(If you do get a XK150 remember to get an extra bonnet strap. I dog (or cat) collar wrapped round the grill and safety catch is sufficient)
andye30m3 said:
I quite fancy a Jaguar XK150 FHC as an every day car.
Great idea.Jags are particularly well served with spares and specialists. Also if you do want to do a few modifications there are plenty of tried and tested upgrades available.
I think this is probably the model I would choose for practical purposes. A few years back Jaguar World (I think) restored and uprated an XK150 fhc for Paul Skilleter. The article may still be available somewhere.
mph said:
andye30m3 said:
I quite fancy a Jaguar XK150 FHC as an every day car.
Great idea.Jags are particularly well served with spares and specialists. Also if you do want to do a few modifications there are plenty of tried and tested upgrades available.
I think this is probably the model I would choose for practical purposes. A few years back Jaguar World (I think) restored and uprated an XK150 fhc for Paul Skilleter. The article may still be available somewhere.
The car was on the market a couple of months ago.
XK150 FHC are particularly practical in that they come as standard with 4 wheel disk brakes.
The Editor of Octane runs a 140FHC as a daily driver in London.
TimCrighton said:
Fun - My car has more carbs than seats - and that in my book is a good thing!
I think that just about sums it up for me. Still miss the sound of multiple, big carbs. Mph - no shorlist, it was just hypothetical really. I dabble in a little writing and was thinking about doing a piece on the benefits of using a classic every day. Now the government has closed a few of the loopholes (presumably in response to the millions of us using an Isotta Fraschini as tax-dodging daily drivers) it maybe wouldn't have quite so much impact.
There's no reason why using an older car for business use shouldn't work out as long as you understand the pitfalls.
Why not use a Cortina or Capri on a daily basis? Thousands of us did during the 70's!
The paradox is that a car in good condition today is probably a low mileage example that's done do real work. Task it to do 20K a year and you will end up with trouble.
Invest the money up front on making the car servicable, tyres, brakes, hoses etc., change to modern ingition, then build up usage like the old idea of running in.
IMHO not all classics are suitable for daily drivers. However a P6 Rover, Triumph 2000, Merc, Cortina, Capri, SIII XJ6 Audi Coupe etc would be brilliant.
As for the company car thing, I understod that cars under a certain value would be taxed based on their new value and their depreciation so a car that's worth more now than when new could easily produce some strange tax computations!
May all be different now though.
Why not use a Cortina or Capri on a daily basis? Thousands of us did during the 70's!
The paradox is that a car in good condition today is probably a low mileage example that's done do real work. Task it to do 20K a year and you will end up with trouble.
Invest the money up front on making the car servicable, tyres, brakes, hoses etc., change to modern ingition, then build up usage like the old idea of running in.
IMHO not all classics are suitable for daily drivers. However a P6 Rover, Triumph 2000, Merc, Cortina, Capri, SIII XJ6 Audi Coupe etc would be brilliant.
As for the company car thing, I understod that cars under a certain value would be taxed based on their new value and their depreciation so a car that's worth more now than when new could easily produce some strange tax computations!
May all be different now though.
52classic said:
As for the company car thing, I understod that cars under a certain value would be taxed based on their new value and their depreciation so a car that's worth more now than when new could easily produce some strange tax computations!
May all be different now though.
Talking about car tax with my (also car mad) accountant he was saying so long as the value is sub £15K it's easy, the problem was an XK isn't sub £15K. But if it is, I think you can pretty much write off anything against tax.May all be different now though.
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