Walking into certain financial ruin, with a soppy grin!
Discussion
Hi chaps,
I've always been interested in classic ownership, but I'd quite like to bring something back from the cusp of oblivion and start some mad love affair with an ageing relic - let's face it, I've managed that with the majority of my love life to date, so why not with an old jalopy?
That would hold far more interest for me than simply buying a ready prepared concours winner and mothballing it in the garage save for the odd summer blast.
I've no idea what I would pick. I think that is going to come down to timing, the thrill of discovery and a real connection with that lucky machine. I have some ideas floating around my cobweb-lined cranium, but no firm choices.
Can it be feasible to farm out all of the restoration work? I've never held much love for garage queens, maybe someone to restore the structure and mechanics to perfection but still leave that patina of use, of love through the years. No mile deep paint for me. Just squashed flies and the smell of hot castrol please
How does it work - can you effectively become the project manager for your restoration? Seeking those hard to find parts and writing the cheques or do you have little say in terms of cost and timescale once they've been set to task?
Late night trawl of carandclassic.co.uk is throwing up some absolute peaches this evening
I've always been interested in classic ownership, but I'd quite like to bring something back from the cusp of oblivion and start some mad love affair with an ageing relic - let's face it, I've managed that with the majority of my love life to date, so why not with an old jalopy?
That would hold far more interest for me than simply buying a ready prepared concours winner and mothballing it in the garage save for the odd summer blast.
I've no idea what I would pick. I think that is going to come down to timing, the thrill of discovery and a real connection with that lucky machine. I have some ideas floating around my cobweb-lined cranium, but no firm choices.
Can it be feasible to farm out all of the restoration work? I've never held much love for garage queens, maybe someone to restore the structure and mechanics to perfection but still leave that patina of use, of love through the years. No mile deep paint for me. Just squashed flies and the smell of hot castrol please
How does it work - can you effectively become the project manager for your restoration? Seeking those hard to find parts and writing the cheques or do you have little say in terms of cost and timescale once they've been set to task?
Late night trawl of carandclassic.co.uk is throwing up some absolute peaches this evening
If you pick the right group of restorers and agree terms before the work begins yes you can become part of the 'team' and have real input into what goes where and how it is manufactured or sourced. However don't upset the professionals by meddling and be happy to do your reading before getting too attached.
What are you looking at, something 1950's or pre war??
What are you looking at, something 1950's or pre war??
belleair302 said:
If you pick the right group of restorers and agree terms before the work begins yes you can become part of the 'team' and have real input into what goes where and how it is manufactured or sourced. However don't upset the professionals by meddling and be happy to do your reading before getting too attached.
What are you looking at, something 1950's or pre war??
I really don't know. Something, erm... 'caddish' What are you looking at, something 1950's or pre war??
Loving the look of the Alvis TD21, but also 40's and 50's Bentley Saloons. Then there are the forlorn looking E-Types, the Astons, the Europa's, the list goes on
I think so long as you both agree upon what is and what is NOT acceptable before starting the project, there is no reason why you cannot become involved at whatever level best suits you. Just remember who is paying, and who are the restoration specialists!
Choosing what car and a period is the beginning then finding the right people to work on the chassis, engine, gearbox, hood, paint, interior, chrome, lights, exhausts, wheels, tyres and then getting the car onto the road. It is a major task that lies ahead and could well cost you tens of thousands!!
Choosing what car and a period is the beginning then finding the right people to work on the chassis, engine, gearbox, hood, paint, interior, chrome, lights, exhausts, wheels, tyres and then getting the car onto the road. It is a major task that lies ahead and could well cost you tens of thousands!!
Surely I could get certain bits done as time and funds allow?
Thinking more of a rolling resto on something roadworthy but scruffy. For example I've seen a Jensen Interceptor for less than £4k. Obviously that is going to need some major TLC, but it did have a current MOT. If it has an MOT and can be made sound/reliable I'd be more than happy with something like that. As I said, not garage queens.
Thinking more of a rolling resto on something roadworthy but scruffy. For example I've seen a Jensen Interceptor for less than £4k. Obviously that is going to need some major TLC, but it did have a current MOT. If it has an MOT and can be made sound/reliable I'd be more than happy with something like that. As I said, not garage queens.
KingRichard said:
Hi chaps,
I've always been interested in classic ownership, but I'd quite like to bring something back from the cusp of oblivion and start some mad love affair with an ageing relic - let's face it, I've managed that with the majority of my love life to date, so why not with an old jalopy?
That would hold far more interest for me than simply buying a ready prepared concours winner and mothballing it in the garage save for the odd summer blast.
I've no idea what I would pick. I think that is going to come down to timing, the thrill of discovery and a real connection with that lucky machine. I have some ideas floating around my cobweb-lined cranium, but no firm choices.
Go out and look at loads of classic cars, you'll know when you've found it. If you don't know, you've not found it yet.I've always been interested in classic ownership, but I'd quite like to bring something back from the cusp of oblivion and start some mad love affair with an ageing relic - let's face it, I've managed that with the majority of my love life to date, so why not with an old jalopy?
That would hold far more interest for me than simply buying a ready prepared concours winner and mothballing it in the garage save for the odd summer blast.
I've no idea what I would pick. I think that is going to come down to timing, the thrill of discovery and a real connection with that lucky machine. I have some ideas floating around my cobweb-lined cranium, but no firm choices.
Try and work out what you actually want out of the car.
KingRichard said:
Can it be feasible to farm out all of the restoration work? I've never held much love for garage queens, maybe someone to restore the structure and mechanics to perfection but still leave that patina of use, of love through the years. No mile deep paint for me. Just squashed flies and the smell of hot castrol please
Yes, you can pretty much farm out ant of the work you want. You just get to play the game called "Keep signing the cheques"It's becoming much more fashionable to restore cars to look unrestored. I was looking at the ex Jim Clarke D type that was featured in Octane a last year. It looks like it's all original and been growing old respecibly for the last 50 years. But in reality it had a major rebuild ending last year, including rebuilding the bonnet that was totally smashed up 50 years ago. The owner paid to have it lovingly restored rather than replaced.
Personally I prefer my 50 year old car to look like it's 50s old. Sound like you're the same. We are not alone. Discuss what you are looking for with a restorer. If you aren't happy that they are on the same wave length as you are then go somewhere else.
KingRichard said:
How does it work - can you effectively become the project manager for your restoration? Seeking those hard to find parts and writing the cheques or do you have little say in terms of cost and timescale once they've been set to task?
Late night trawl of carandclassic.co.uk is throwing up some absolute peaches this evening
You can run the project anyway you want.
Even if you tell them what you are looking for and ask them to get on with it, you'll likely to end up getting involved in deciding what to do. Projects are not likely to be simple. Until they start they often can't see exactly what needs doing. Often classics will have been repaired many times before. Most classic cars have been through various stages of life already. They've been a new car, they been a nearly new car. They been an old run around and a bit of a wreck before they reach classic status. Some of the work over the years will probably leave a lot to be desired. Even once they become classic. A previous owner might not have the same thoughts as you. So sometimes your chosen restorer will start a bit of work only to find they open a whole can of worms underneath. Here you'll likely get involved.
Late night trawl of carandclassic.co.uk is throwing up some absolute peaches this evening
You can run the project anyway you want.
Even if you tell them what you are looking for and ask them to get on with it, you'll likely to end up getting involved in deciding what to do. Projects are not likely to be simple. Until they start they often can't see exactly what needs doing. Often classics will have been repaired many times before. Most classic cars have been through various stages of life already. They've been a new car, they been a nearly new car. They been an old run around and a bit of a wreck before they reach classic status. Some of the work over the years will probably leave a lot to be desired. Even once they become classic. A previous owner might not have the same thoughts as you. So sometimes your chosen restorer will start a bit of work only to find they open a whole can of worms underneath. Here you'll likely get involved.
KingRichard said:
So quite involved then... Love the ironic use of the 'thumbup' smilie
I don't think I'm quite at your level if you're looking at D-Types with provenence like that, but hey, we can have the same thoughts...
I love old cars, why would I want it to look like a new one?
When I said I was looking at the D, I meant I was standing next to it in the paddock at Goodwood trying not to let my drool drip on the paint work.I don't think I'm quite at your level if you're looking at D-Types with provenence like that, but hey, we can have the same thoughts...
I love old cars, why would I want it to look like a new one?
By the way. I don't know much about Jensens but I think a £4K Interceptor would likely be in need of some serious work. There is a thread on Jensen CV8s and 541s here you might want to look at.
If you are looking at a budget Aston see
http://www.astonmartins.com/misc/your_first_aston....
Definition of an optimist...................
''A person who thinks that they can just afford to run an Aston Martin''
Peter Dron, Daily Telegraph
I looked at a Ferrari once, the wife asked the dealer how much I should budget on a year to keep a 456 on the road. He said, oh there not bad, if you use it regularly they keep better. You should be able to get away with about 5K a year running costs. Plus the fuel of course. I didn't buy it.
KingRichard said:
Curse the wife for bringing up the question... you could have had 3 months of blissful ignorance until it went pop 
Bloody women
Accept as we were driving away of the dealer, she looked out of the windowBloody women
"STOP" she shouts
"I LIKE THAT ONE" she says pointing at a beautiful 365 GT 2+2 (I think) it was all nice and curvy and had the necessary seats in the rear... back in we go.
Seems that particular one was a money pit. They were trying to sort it for some guy who'd been sold a pup. But it did look the part.
And it got us back to discussing classics again. She who must be obeyed had finally come to the conclusion that if I was going to have a 4 wheeled toy. A classic toy is what she'd rather we had. Which was what I really wanted to hear.
Only problem is that I'm not sure she's forgiven me for not buying an E-Type.
(Well I say the only problem.... actually she's blond and therefore thinks she should have a classic open top Merc. Fancies the look of a 300 roadster but she'd going to need to find a richer husband).
RULES FOR BUYING CLASSIC CARS
1. DON'T buy the first one you see.
2. Do some research on the car you like and look at parts and running costs
3. Buy the best you can afford. It's the cheapest car in the long run.
4. If you are set on a make and model join the club and ask the experts. They might well know of a well sorted one for sale in the club.
5. Be prepared for a lifetime of expense and penury.
6. Have an agreement already signed by SWMBO that in the event of a divorce you keep the car.
1. DON'T buy the first one you see.
2. Do some research on the car you like and look at parts and running costs
3. Buy the best you can afford. It's the cheapest car in the long run.
4. If you are set on a make and model join the club and ask the experts. They might well know of a well sorted one for sale in the club.
5. Be prepared for a lifetime of expense and penury.
6. Have an agreement already signed by SWMBO that in the event of a divorce you keep the car.
Also, if you decide which marque to go for, then find a few suitable candidates and have them looked at by a professional specialist. Spending a few hundred now could save you many thousends in the future. They will give you a very detailed account of the condition of that car. You can take this list and decide whether ou want to take on that level of work. If you do, you have a nicely made to-do list. If you dont, you've just saved yourself a lot of money
Also, you can decide what you can and cannot do yourself. Can you rebuild the engine, for examople. Do yuo have the tools to remove, strip, clean, repair/erplace, and rebuild?
All alnong the way cash can be saveed by using non-marque specialists (paint is just paint, afterall....) but what you dont want is for these to learn what they are doing by reading the workshop manual- that is somehting you can do
Oh, dont underestimate how much things cost. and dont forget to add the VAT onto everything.
Dont underestimate the time, either. It takes a long time to remove something, clean, check/replace, test and install. Longer then you think. You'll need to enjoy this part, otherwise you'll get disheartened and sell it as "90% done, just needs finishing"
Oh, done buy things you dont need. At the beginning, we all buy the n ice, shiney chrome stuff but its a waste of money. You're better off spending cash where it cant be seen to begin with, and re-use the shiney bits as requird. Only buy when ou know what you about to do- its good advice to keep the budget under control, but one I often fail to heed mysefl. I have a lot of cash sitting in my garage bought 2 years ago waiting to go onto my car. I thought I would do it, but when the car came off for winter I decided on doing something else. I could do with that cash now...
Hope that help.s But remember, you will need to buy a car for pleasure, not pain. And NOT for someone else's gain. So enjoy it while you can. The way the world is heading, you wont be able to for much longer...
Also, you can decide what you can and cannot do yourself. Can you rebuild the engine, for examople. Do yuo have the tools to remove, strip, clean, repair/erplace, and rebuild?
All alnong the way cash can be saveed by using non-marque specialists (paint is just paint, afterall....) but what you dont want is for these to learn what they are doing by reading the workshop manual- that is somehting you can do
Oh, dont underestimate how much things cost. and dont forget to add the VAT onto everything.
Dont underestimate the time, either. It takes a long time to remove something, clean, check/replace, test and install. Longer then you think. You'll need to enjoy this part, otherwise you'll get disheartened and sell it as "90% done, just needs finishing"
Oh, done buy things you dont need. At the beginning, we all buy the n ice, shiney chrome stuff but its a waste of money. You're better off spending cash where it cant be seen to begin with, and re-use the shiney bits as requird. Only buy when ou know what you about to do- its good advice to keep the budget under control, but one I often fail to heed mysefl. I have a lot of cash sitting in my garage bought 2 years ago waiting to go onto my car. I thought I would do it, but when the car came off for winter I decided on doing something else. I could do with that cash now...
Hope that help.s But remember, you will need to buy a car for pleasure, not pain. And NOT for someone else's gain. So enjoy it while you can. The way the world is heading, you wont be able to for much longer...
The most important rule is buy the best you possibly can. It may sound a great idea to buy a bag of s***t and dream about restoring it to its past glory but you will sink hours and piles of cash into it. Unless you are looking for a dirty hand type of project that you are going to fettle over a number of years let someone else pay for that and buy it already done.
You never recoup your investment in restoration. Having said that if people didn't have the restoration bug lazy buggers like me wouldn't have the opportunity of buying nice cars that were already restored.
You never recoup your investment in restoration. Having said that if people didn't have the restoration bug lazy buggers like me wouldn't have the opportunity of buying nice cars that were already restored.
I farmed out almost the entirety of my lancias restoration.
It certainly didnt come in on time or in budget, but in truth I wanted something that would last, and the car was / is a seriously rare and good example that didnt deserve to have me learn restoration skills on it.
Next thing I restore will be something thats not too rare and has already been mucked about with i think, that way if i mess it up its no great loss to the motoring world
It certainly didnt come in on time or in budget, but in truth I wanted something that would last, and the car was / is a seriously rare and good example that didnt deserve to have me learn restoration skills on it.
Next thing I restore will be something thats not too rare and has already been mucked about with i think, that way if i mess it up its no great loss to the motoring world
As long as you realise that you are unlikley to ever recover the money spent at resale then you will be fine. Fixed budgets just dont work. Once the restorer starts pulling things apart they will find more and more stuff that needs doing. Then there is the whole must have, should have, nice to have thing. It goes like this:
Component A must be replaced but while its in bits it would be a good idea to replace B and C. Since it takes two days to strip down and a day to reasemble you migh want D,E,F..... replaced too. The problem is if you dont have E replaced it might fail in six months time which means you could be paying two days labour to replace a £30 component. This would have just cost £30 and 10 minutes labour if you had it done as the same time as A.
Then there is the worst case to consider. Things like having the body shell shot blasted to find you have more holes than metal.
Component A must be replaced but while its in bits it would be a good idea to replace B and C. Since it takes two days to strip down and a day to reasemble you migh want D,E,F..... replaced too. The problem is if you dont have E replaced it might fail in six months time which means you could be paying two days labour to replace a £30 component. This would have just cost £30 and 10 minutes labour if you had it done as the same time as A.
Then there is the worst case to consider. Things like having the body shell shot blasted to find you have more holes than metal.
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