BMW E23 7-series?
Discussion
I put this in the BMW forum, but they're obviously all too busy with their new cars! I'm thinking of getting an old E23 735 as a day-to-day car to replace my Saab 9000, which is very fast but very boring and a bit too FWD for my liking. Does anyone here run one, or know much about them? Anything common faults to look for?
I think they're quite nice in an old-school way, big without really looking big
I think they're quite nice in an old-school way, big without really looking big
These are great cars, and really cheap too!
How old is the model you are looking at? The pre face lift model (pre '83) has a slightly different nose, lights and bumpers etc. In the UK between 1977 and 1986 the E23 was available with 2.8, 3.0, 3.3 and 3.5 litre M30 straight six engines. These are all pretty bullet proof if they have been looked after, though if they haven't had proper coolant changes on a regular basis will overheat which can lead to warped and cracked heads and HGF. They also need regular oil changes, but a well looked after engine will do 300k with ease.
Most cars came with either a 3 or 4 speed ZF Auto 'box, again, these are pretty robust and will last a long time if the oil has been changed. Some early 730 and 733 actually have a Getrang 4 speed manual but these are very rare.
The 735i was sold with a 5 speeder in Europe but as far I as I'm aware non were sold in the UK.
The diffs can get a bit whiney on higher mileage cars, to be honest it doesn't make a huge amount of difference, they'll just keep going.
The suspension can suffer from worn bushes, especially if not looked after, especially on the rear trailing arms, its a bit of arse to change them but will really transform the handling. Clonking from the from will usually mean worn top mounts or tie bar bushes.
This was a car built at a time when BMW would fit anything you wanted to the interior so they vary wildly. Some cars have poverty spec trim with just cloth seats, manual windows and sunroof, whilst others come with full leather, electric heated seats, air con, climate, and even a TV and video in the back! If you're looking at one with electric seats, make sure they work as the motors are expensive. On cloth covered seats the trim tends to wear around the bolsters, this is pretty common on 80's BMW's. They also tend to suffer from cracked dashboards too, though second hand ones are cheap. All the 735i's came with an on board computer, these rarely tend to work properly now due to bits wearing out.
The big killer of these cars is rust. They can rust very badly around the rear arches, jacking points, sunroof drain holes, boot well, inner front wings and lower valance, around the floor pan and boot well. Have a good look around and poke about with a screwdriver. The chrome bumpers tend to rust out from the inside too.
The good thing about these old barges is that they are cheap and there are some very good ones that have been really well looked after still about. There are however some really basket cases that will cost a fortune to put right.
Believe it or not, but nearly everything for these cars are still available from the BMW main dealer network and quite a few parts are really well priced.
On a final note, if you see a 745i for sale these are definately worth a look. They are US and South African market cars, fully loaded and were basically the 'M7' of the range. The US market and early SA cars came with a turbocharged version of the M30 3.5 engine, the later SA cars were fitted with the M88 Straight six from the M635csi and E28 M5. The best thing is that the SA cars are right hand drive.
I think that's all for the moment, I've done this all from memory so I hope I haven't missed anything out, I'm sure sombody else will be along in a bit to correct me!
Edited to add, the wheels... nearly all the later cars were fitted with Metric sized rims. The Michelin TRX tyres now cost an absolute fortune (It cost over a grand for a full set of new TRX's for my M535i) but the wheels from later 5 and 7 series will just bolt straight on. If you find a set of wheels from an E39 5 series you'll need a little ring the fits the hub bolt as BMW increased the hub centre size slightly. If you dont have one of these (you can get them on Ebay) you won't be able to centre the wheel on the hub properly.
How old is the model you are looking at? The pre face lift model (pre '83) has a slightly different nose, lights and bumpers etc. In the UK between 1977 and 1986 the E23 was available with 2.8, 3.0, 3.3 and 3.5 litre M30 straight six engines. These are all pretty bullet proof if they have been looked after, though if they haven't had proper coolant changes on a regular basis will overheat which can lead to warped and cracked heads and HGF. They also need regular oil changes, but a well looked after engine will do 300k with ease.
Most cars came with either a 3 or 4 speed ZF Auto 'box, again, these are pretty robust and will last a long time if the oil has been changed. Some early 730 and 733 actually have a Getrang 4 speed manual but these are very rare.
The 735i was sold with a 5 speeder in Europe but as far I as I'm aware non were sold in the UK.
The diffs can get a bit whiney on higher mileage cars, to be honest it doesn't make a huge amount of difference, they'll just keep going.
The suspension can suffer from worn bushes, especially if not looked after, especially on the rear trailing arms, its a bit of arse to change them but will really transform the handling. Clonking from the from will usually mean worn top mounts or tie bar bushes.
This was a car built at a time when BMW would fit anything you wanted to the interior so they vary wildly. Some cars have poverty spec trim with just cloth seats, manual windows and sunroof, whilst others come with full leather, electric heated seats, air con, climate, and even a TV and video in the back! If you're looking at one with electric seats, make sure they work as the motors are expensive. On cloth covered seats the trim tends to wear around the bolsters, this is pretty common on 80's BMW's. They also tend to suffer from cracked dashboards too, though second hand ones are cheap. All the 735i's came with an on board computer, these rarely tend to work properly now due to bits wearing out.
The big killer of these cars is rust. They can rust very badly around the rear arches, jacking points, sunroof drain holes, boot well, inner front wings and lower valance, around the floor pan and boot well. Have a good look around and poke about with a screwdriver. The chrome bumpers tend to rust out from the inside too.
The good thing about these old barges is that they are cheap and there are some very good ones that have been really well looked after still about. There are however some really basket cases that will cost a fortune to put right.
Believe it or not, but nearly everything for these cars are still available from the BMW main dealer network and quite a few parts are really well priced.
On a final note, if you see a 745i for sale these are definately worth a look. They are US and South African market cars, fully loaded and were basically the 'M7' of the range. The US market and early SA cars came with a turbocharged version of the M30 3.5 engine, the later SA cars were fitted with the M88 Straight six from the M635csi and E28 M5. The best thing is that the SA cars are right hand drive.
I think that's all for the moment, I've done this all from memory so I hope I haven't missed anything out, I'm sure sombody else will be along in a bit to correct me!
Edited to add, the wheels... nearly all the later cars were fitted with Metric sized rims. The Michelin TRX tyres now cost an absolute fortune (It cost over a grand for a full set of new TRX's for my M535i) but the wheels from later 5 and 7 series will just bolt straight on. If you find a set of wheels from an E39 5 series you'll need a little ring the fits the hub bolt as BMW increased the hub centre size slightly. If you dont have one of these (you can get them on Ebay) you won't be able to centre the wheel on the hub properly.
Edited by bob1179 on Friday 2nd November 05:39
Thanks for that info. I missed a '79 728 manual on carbs a few months ago that seemed lovely (low miles, few owners, full history, mint interior, etc), but it was miles away up north and I didn't have a chance to get up there before it sold.
The one I'm looking at now is a 1982 735i, resprayed about five years ago but stored for the last few years. It is bodily excellent, but I've not had a proper test drive yet so don't know how it goes. I'm slightly cautious about buying a car to use everyday that has been sitting for a while. I'm always suspicious that perishables will have done just that and leave me stranded somewhere! But as long as it's had a decent service and things checked and replaced as neccessary it should be ok.
The one I'm looking at now is a 1982 735i, resprayed about five years ago but stored for the last few years. It is bodily excellent, but I've not had a proper test drive yet so don't know how it goes. I'm slightly cautious about buying a car to use everyday that has been sitting for a while. I'm always suspicious that perishables will have done just that and leave me stranded somewhere! But as long as it's had a decent service and things checked and replaced as neccessary it should be ok.
tog said:
Thanks for that info. I missed a '79 728 manual on carbs a few months ago that seemed lovely (low miles, few owners, full history, mint interior, etc), but it was miles away up north and I didn't have a chance to get up there before it sold.
The one I'm looking at now is a 1982 735i, resprayed about five years ago but stored for the last few years. It is bodily excellent, but I've not had a proper test drive yet so don't know how it goes. I'm slightly cautious about buying a car to use everyday that has been sitting for a while. I'm always suspicious that perishables will have done just that and leave me stranded somewhere! But as long as it's had a decent service and things checked and replaced as neccessary it should be ok.
Shame about the '79 car, I love the older ones. I almost bought a '77 733i manual last year but work got in the way. It only had 76k on the clock.The one I'm looking at now is a 1982 735i, resprayed about five years ago but stored for the last few years. It is bodily excellent, but I've not had a proper test drive yet so don't know how it goes. I'm slightly cautious about buying a car to use everyday that has been sitting for a while. I'm always suspicious that perishables will have done just that and leave me stranded somewhere! But as long as it's had a decent service and things checked and replaced as neccessary it should be ok.
The 735i sounds pretty good. Has it been taxed and MOT'd, what's the mileage? Like most cars they don't like being sat for a long time, but to be honest I leave my M535i sat in the garage for six months at a time while I'm abroad and it it hasn't let me down once when I've returned.
You'll probably find that the electric windows will be slow, they all do that, and should speed up a bit with use (though they will still be slow by modern standards). Take it for a drive and make sure the brakes are OK and that nothing has seized.
If you buy it, post some piccies up, I'd love to see what it looks like.
Can I be rude and how much they are asking for it?
I'm waiting for it to be MoT'd next week and it needs a little attention before getting a decent test drive, but he's looking for about a grand. It has sunroof, leccy windows, and different controls for the ventilation to most photos I've seen - could be climate control? Not sure exactly. Driver's seat has worn obviously, but is a bit hard and seems to have slightly collapsed internally too, or maybe it's supposed to be like that! But bodily it is excellent, and if he'll take the 9000 in p/x I'll be very tempted
If it's immaculate, it'll be worth around a grand, for some reason they just don't fetch that much money.
I bought a really clean E28 525i for 350 quid a few years ago, just goes to show what these cars are worth, even with a cult following.
I hope it's a nice one though, they are really addictive cars in an 80's barge sort of way.
Good luck with it.
I bought a really clean E28 525i for 350 quid a few years ago, just goes to show what these cars are worth, even with a cult following.
I hope it's a nice one though, they are really addictive cars in an 80's barge sort of way.
Good luck with it.
the e23, as said above are great cars, very much underated these days and can be had for very little.
For a top notch car, I wouldn't pay more than £800 for one, they are just not wanted these days. I am currently restoring an Alpina e23, and the electrics in it are a minefield, but the other e23's I've driven are fabulous, so if you can get it and use it daily then go for it.
Parts are quite easy to locate now, as myself and many others have spares for them tucked away so a search for forums and parts normally yield what you're after.
As has been said above, rust is the killer, rear arches, rear panel above the licence plate, corners of the boot by the rubber seal, but check rear of the cills too. Non starters are normally down to the fuel pump relay which is quite exposed, and ensure all works well. If the climate and a/c doesn't work then the motors are possibly at fault and they are a pain to fix, but everything else is quite straight forward.
As for an early car, I am hunting for one now, but it has to be a 733i manual, so if you find one then I'd appreciate a pm!
Lastly as for the 745i, this is dependent on what type?
IF you come across either 745 then buy it! If its a european 745i it'll be the turbocharged car available in LHD form only, but if it was the SA745 then its a rare car, only 2 are registered here in the UK and they sport the M6 engine coupled with either an auto or the manual box. Available only in South Africa and never an official M product regardless of the engine, and never badged as an M7!
Good luck, they're basically a grown up e28 but better!
For a top notch car, I wouldn't pay more than £800 for one, they are just not wanted these days. I am currently restoring an Alpina e23, and the electrics in it are a minefield, but the other e23's I've driven are fabulous, so if you can get it and use it daily then go for it.
Parts are quite easy to locate now, as myself and many others have spares for them tucked away so a search for forums and parts normally yield what you're after.
As has been said above, rust is the killer, rear arches, rear panel above the licence plate, corners of the boot by the rubber seal, but check rear of the cills too. Non starters are normally down to the fuel pump relay which is quite exposed, and ensure all works well. If the climate and a/c doesn't work then the motors are possibly at fault and they are a pain to fix, but everything else is quite straight forward.
As for an early car, I am hunting for one now, but it has to be a 733i manual, so if you find one then I'd appreciate a pm!
Lastly as for the 745i, this is dependent on what type?
IF you come across either 745 then buy it! If its a european 745i it'll be the turbocharged car available in LHD form only, but if it was the SA745 then its a rare car, only 2 are registered here in the UK and they sport the M6 engine coupled with either an auto or the manual box. Available only in South Africa and never an official M product regardless of the engine, and never badged as an M7!
Good luck, they're basically a grown up e28 but better!
Edited by mrB10 on Sunday 4th November 20:01
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