Mechanical disaster strikes
Discussion
Made the decision to sell my Austin 12/4, couple came along and liked the car having had a good look over and under. Decided on a test drive and all was going wonderfully well, and then disaster when the engine did'nt quite seem to be right. Got back home to lift the bonnet revealing a puddle of water laying on an ledge of the engine. It seems very much like the block has cracked. Its the original engine and I don't want to simply find a replacement engine or block.
NEVER, EVER let your car know it has passed its sell by date or it'll bite you back! Seriously, a sad tale but surely not irreparable? I've seen blocks rewelded and my own has been stitched when it badly overheated and cracked between cylinders 5 & 6 yet after a rebore has been as good as gold for 60,000 miles. I saw an XK engine rewelded when it had put a con rod through the block too. Fear not, get out those two most invaluable and indispensable of tools for classic cars and all will shortly be well; I'm referring to the mobile phone and credit card of course. Sometimes I wonder why we bother though. We'd be rich beyond our dreams, but bored to hell though.
Thanks for the words of encouragement, its just what I need at the moment as I'm feeling really fed up at the mo'.
Lifted the canvas lid on my Bayliss this morning and would you believe the rear section of the pram hood snapped
Its a full width section across the rear and a lovely curve at each end straightening up for attachment to the bodywork. All in ash wood (albiet painted).
So thoughts turn to having a new section made until after a cuppa and settled down had the bright idea of a botch for now. I have used an epoxey resin to bond the broken section together and sleeved the repair with a 28mm copper tube which I am going to paint black. At least it should see me through what is turning out to be a dramatic motoring week.
As you suggest tho, why Oh why do we bother
Lifted the canvas lid on my Bayliss this morning and would you believe the rear section of the pram hood snapped
Its a full width section across the rear and a lovely curve at each end straightening up for attachment to the bodywork. All in ash wood (albiet painted). So thoughts turn to having a new section made until after a cuppa and settled down had the bright idea of a botch for now. I have used an epoxey resin to bond the broken section together and sleeved the repair with a 28mm copper tube which I am going to paint black. At least it should see me through what is turning out to be a dramatic motoring week.
As you suggest tho, why Oh why do we bother
Maybe it's just a head gasket? Neither heads nor blocks generally crack while you are just driving along -
Check for water in the oil, assuming you use antifreeze you don't want to run the engine with glycol-contaminated oil.
With any luck it's a gasket leak (not that I even know what this particular engine looks like!)
Check for water in the oil, assuming you use antifreeze you don't want to run the engine with glycol-contaminated oil.
With any luck it's a gasket leak (not that I even know what this particular engine looks like!)
Thanks guys, I have had a look at the oil and it appears all normal with no emulsion. The spark plugs are all the same blackish sooty colour (these old girls all run a little rich)the engine starts OK and runs with no white smoke or smoke of any colour except black when the choke is out.
As an engine block of 80 years old it may be that it was partial damaged way back when and has been hanging on to give up at the wrong moment for me. I have chucked in a couple of bottles of K-Seal which has forstalled the inevitable, but it is still weeping, as I am!
As an engine block of 80 years old it may be that it was partial damaged way back when and has been hanging on to give up at the wrong moment for me. I have chucked in a couple of bottles of K-Seal which has forstalled the inevitable, but it is still weeping, as I am!
Hello Mr. Disaster!!
I've had a think about this and the following is a distinct possibility.
For the block to crack on the outside with apparently no warning probably means that it was partially frozen at one time, (no anti-freeze), and this started a hairline crack.
It would not result in damage visible to the eye or even a leak, but the weakness is there.
Eventually of course, and under the terms of that highly scientific principle, sod's law, it happens in the middle of a road test when you are trying to sell the car!
It might be possible to weld in place, the only risk being that the block is fatigued in other parts and could go all over the place eventually simply due to age.
But the technique basically revolves around the fact that cast iron has widely varying expansion rates and if you simply try to weld it, the area around the weld will crack as it cools. What you would do normally is to remove the engine, strip the block down to bare metal, heat it in an oven and weld while hot.
The block is then allowed to cool naturally preventing any varied expansion cracks.
To prepare the weld, you have to use an intensive cleaner and then a crack detection spray such as Rocol which will show up the whole length of the crack, (it's always longer than it seems), v-grind along the length of the crack and drill a small hole just past the ends to prevent creep, then weld.
I have done this on cast iron blocks successfully in place by using a large propane torch to heat up the side of the block, but I have to say they were almost new engines that had been frost damaged because some numpty forgot to put in anti freeze at the start of the winter, so there was no fatigue involved.
You also have the benefit nowadays of some phenomenally good welding equipment such as some of the pre-programmed TIG machines.
I would look locally for a recommended industrial welder who can tackle this kind of thing and ask him to carry out a sonic scan on the block before welding.
This will show up any potential cracks as well as the present one, and you then know you aren't wasting your time repairing it.
A word of warning about this business of fatigue in cast iron blocks.
Many moons ago I sold a BMW 520i to a friend's son with absolute confidence as it had been my own totally trustworthy transport for about two years.
The car was an early E12 with the 2 litre Bosch mechanical injection engine and went like stink!
About six months later he came in with it running very hot, not actually overheating, but very high on the temperature gauge and the hoses distended to the point of bursting.
Very conscious of the fact that early BMWs were bad for cracking cylinder heads we did a compression test, but it came back perfect, and was using no oil or water.
The logical diagnosis then is a partially choked radiator or thermostat, and after replacing these it certainly was much better, but I had a bad feeling about it when it went out.
It was back in about two weeks even worse than before and I took the bull by the horns and removed the head..... to find nothing wrong with it!
We assumed it was porous and sent it for testing; this of course involved a total stripdown. It came back perfect!
After refitting it with new gaskets the car was back again after a few days exactly the same as before.
I had to conclude that the head was porous despite the test and fitted a new one.
It was exactly the same!!!!
I think you can now understand that I should have torched it and given the guy his money back!
But engineering pride takes over; it's a creeping terminal illness by the way, exclusive to engineers, and prevents then from using common sense and economics!
I finally obtained another block from a written off vehicle and rebuilt the engine with that: it was perfect.
We took the original block and gave it to one of my customers who was head of Mechanical Engineering at Glasgow University and he used it as a project for the students.
They have some of the best labs in the world and subjected this block to every test known to man, and could find no fault with it!
So it must have been the worst of all vehicle problems; a Gremlin!!!
On telling one of my customers about this he said that these were made by Rolls Royce and they used to fit them to Spitfires!!!!
Probably truer than you think.
Good luck with your block and let us know what happens.
I've had a think about this and the following is a distinct possibility.
For the block to crack on the outside with apparently no warning probably means that it was partially frozen at one time, (no anti-freeze), and this started a hairline crack.
It would not result in damage visible to the eye or even a leak, but the weakness is there.
Eventually of course, and under the terms of that highly scientific principle, sod's law, it happens in the middle of a road test when you are trying to sell the car!
It might be possible to weld in place, the only risk being that the block is fatigued in other parts and could go all over the place eventually simply due to age.
But the technique basically revolves around the fact that cast iron has widely varying expansion rates and if you simply try to weld it, the area around the weld will crack as it cools. What you would do normally is to remove the engine, strip the block down to bare metal, heat it in an oven and weld while hot.
The block is then allowed to cool naturally preventing any varied expansion cracks.
To prepare the weld, you have to use an intensive cleaner and then a crack detection spray such as Rocol which will show up the whole length of the crack, (it's always longer than it seems), v-grind along the length of the crack and drill a small hole just past the ends to prevent creep, then weld.
I have done this on cast iron blocks successfully in place by using a large propane torch to heat up the side of the block, but I have to say they were almost new engines that had been frost damaged because some numpty forgot to put in anti freeze at the start of the winter, so there was no fatigue involved.
You also have the benefit nowadays of some phenomenally good welding equipment such as some of the pre-programmed TIG machines.
I would look locally for a recommended industrial welder who can tackle this kind of thing and ask him to carry out a sonic scan on the block before welding.
This will show up any potential cracks as well as the present one, and you then know you aren't wasting your time repairing it.
A word of warning about this business of fatigue in cast iron blocks.
Many moons ago I sold a BMW 520i to a friend's son with absolute confidence as it had been my own totally trustworthy transport for about two years.
The car was an early E12 with the 2 litre Bosch mechanical injection engine and went like stink!
About six months later he came in with it running very hot, not actually overheating, but very high on the temperature gauge and the hoses distended to the point of bursting.
Very conscious of the fact that early BMWs were bad for cracking cylinder heads we did a compression test, but it came back perfect, and was using no oil or water.
The logical diagnosis then is a partially choked radiator or thermostat, and after replacing these it certainly was much better, but I had a bad feeling about it when it went out.
It was back in about two weeks even worse than before and I took the bull by the horns and removed the head..... to find nothing wrong with it!
We assumed it was porous and sent it for testing; this of course involved a total stripdown. It came back perfect!
After refitting it with new gaskets the car was back again after a few days exactly the same as before.
I had to conclude that the head was porous despite the test and fitted a new one.
It was exactly the same!!!!
I think you can now understand that I should have torched it and given the guy his money back!
But engineering pride takes over; it's a creeping terminal illness by the way, exclusive to engineers, and prevents then from using common sense and economics!
I finally obtained another block from a written off vehicle and rebuilt the engine with that: it was perfect.
We took the original block and gave it to one of my customers who was head of Mechanical Engineering at Glasgow University and he used it as a project for the students.
They have some of the best labs in the world and subjected this block to every test known to man, and could find no fault with it!
So it must have been the worst of all vehicle problems; a Gremlin!!!
On telling one of my customers about this he said that these were made by Rolls Royce and they used to fit them to Spitfires!!!!
Probably truer than you think.
Good luck with your block and let us know what happens.
Its certainly the block, a hairline showing on the outside of the block between bores 3/4. Surelock have suggested that I remove the head and take a few pictures so that they can assess the damage and provide a estimate for repair. They say if I am lucky they may be able to carry out the repair with the engine in situ. They are a top class company with a excellant reputation. Either way they say it will cost 200 - 600 pounds to repair and firm up on sight of damage.
Meanwhile my 'buyer' has made a revised offer allowing himself 1,150 pounds for the repair, a bit harsh on me but he is taking the risk on I suppose. Decisions decisions?????????
Meanwhile my 'buyer' has made a revised offer allowing himself 1,150 pounds for the repair, a bit harsh on me but he is taking the risk on I suppose. Decisions decisions?????????
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