Very Important, please sign.
Discussion
This is a petition to stop the ludicrous proposals emanating from Brussels to ban all cars over fifteen years old.
I will assume you are all going to sign it in outraged indignation!!
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Classic-Ca
I will assume you are all going to sign it in outraged indignation!!
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Classic-Ca
This is about the umpteenth post on this subject, and it's also not true. It has even been reported in three classic car magazines that it is not true.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=384938
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=383485
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=141&t=386843
And what's more, I learnt over the weekend that the German cities that created the scare in the 1st place had already decided to exempt classics before the petition was posted.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=384938
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=383485
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=141&t=386843
And what's more, I learnt over the weekend that the German cities that created the scare in the 1st place had already decided to exempt classics before the petition was posted.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Tuesday 8th May 17:00
jith said:
it seems kinda strange that thousands have signed it
Why?
Someone posts up a link, you go to the link, read it, take it at face value and sign it. That is what nearly everyone is going to do, on any of those petitions, regardless of the subject.
But how many are going to bookmark it, check up on the basis for it, then come back to it once they had checked it out? hardly anyone I reckon.
Balmoral Green said:
But how many are going to bookmark it, check up on the basis for it, then come back to it once they had checked it out? hardly anyone I reckon.
I didn't check, I kind of assumed that that's the sort of thing the euro MPs would do as it didn't surprise me in the slightest. A bit like that proposed law change to motorbikes and the RTA with regards to number plates etc...At one of our premier functions here in East Anglia a number of vintage car owners were mumbling about Brussels eurocrats banning the use of our cars. Utter bullsh*t and stop talking negative about such matters (I know how to make friends)if we are going to talk then lets talk up the historic/classic movement 
There seems to be an implication that I am more than a trifle niave in this manner, and I would forgive you for thinking that, but because of my legal and political experience let me assure you here and now that because this EU proposal is fictitious at the moment absolutely does not mean that it could not become a reality, with all of us who are interested parties having a real fight on our hands.
For example, it is a well known fact within manufacturing circles in the motor trade that Ford have had a policy for years of working towards having all old vehicles removed from the roads by tempting buyers with enticing deals, including ludicrously high trade in values for old cars.
They, or indeed any other capricious, market-driven corporation would think nothing of having old vehicles banned if they could stimulate enough political will that would achieve this end and, as they see it, give them higher numbers and therefore a larger market share.
The dead simple way to achieve this is to impose the emission regulations for say '90s cat breathing vehicles on all vehicles regardless of age and everyone on here with a carb fuelled vehicle is off the road: that of course is virtually all of you.
There is not a hope in hell of achieving anything like even the '90s emissions without closed loop fuel injection.
But please don't assume this couldn't happen: with the EU and hugely powerful entities like Ford working on politicians behind closed doors, I believe anything is possible.
On the bright side however, we have companies like Audi who offer a ten year anti corrosion warranty with all new vehicles encouraging long term ownership.
And we also have the argument that should be pursued with as much vigour as possible, that the worst source of pollutant on the planet is actually the manufacturing process of motor vehicles, the only counter to which is long term ownership accompanied by detailed and accurate servicing.
I have no interest whatever now in new cars, instead choosing for my everyday transport an Audi 90, 20 valve.
Despite being over sixteen years old this vehicle is virtually rust free, has a cat and electronic injection, is more fuel efficient than many of the new vehicles I have driven and runs so cleanly that the inside of the tail pipe, which incidentally is original as is the whole exhaust system, is still spotless, no carbon!
We need to try as much as possible to emphasise the benefits of long term ownership of older vehicles so that, in the minds of the public, classic car owners are seen to be contributing towards minimising the so called carbon effect, rather than the reverse.
If it did come down to a political fight we would be in a position of those who are well armed and prepared rather than being caught on the hop.
Worth thinking about.
For example, it is a well known fact within manufacturing circles in the motor trade that Ford have had a policy for years of working towards having all old vehicles removed from the roads by tempting buyers with enticing deals, including ludicrously high trade in values for old cars.
They, or indeed any other capricious, market-driven corporation would think nothing of having old vehicles banned if they could stimulate enough political will that would achieve this end and, as they see it, give them higher numbers and therefore a larger market share.
The dead simple way to achieve this is to impose the emission regulations for say '90s cat breathing vehicles on all vehicles regardless of age and everyone on here with a carb fuelled vehicle is off the road: that of course is virtually all of you.
There is not a hope in hell of achieving anything like even the '90s emissions without closed loop fuel injection.
But please don't assume this couldn't happen: with the EU and hugely powerful entities like Ford working on politicians behind closed doors, I believe anything is possible.
On the bright side however, we have companies like Audi who offer a ten year anti corrosion warranty with all new vehicles encouraging long term ownership.
And we also have the argument that should be pursued with as much vigour as possible, that the worst source of pollutant on the planet is actually the manufacturing process of motor vehicles, the only counter to which is long term ownership accompanied by detailed and accurate servicing.
I have no interest whatever now in new cars, instead choosing for my everyday transport an Audi 90, 20 valve.
Despite being over sixteen years old this vehicle is virtually rust free, has a cat and electronic injection, is more fuel efficient than many of the new vehicles I have driven and runs so cleanly that the inside of the tail pipe, which incidentally is original as is the whole exhaust system, is still spotless, no carbon!
We need to try as much as possible to emphasise the benefits of long term ownership of older vehicles so that, in the minds of the public, classic car owners are seen to be contributing towards minimising the so called carbon effect, rather than the reverse.
If it did come down to a political fight we would be in a position of those who are well armed and prepared rather than being caught on the hop.
Worth thinking about.
jith said:
There seems to be an implication that I am more than a trifle niave in this manner, and I would forgive you for thinking that, but because of my legal and political experience let me assure you here and now that because this EU proposal is fictitious at the moment absolutely does not mean that it could not become a reality, with all of us who are interested parties having a real fight on our hands.
I think there is already a decent lobby group fighting the classic car owners corner. There is the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs whos remit is to "Uphold the freedom to use old vehicles on the roads without any undue restriction and to support its member organisations in whatever way it can". The FBHVC have worked with memebers of the Parliamentry Historic Vehichle Club in the past. With proponents such as Lord Montagu, Lord Steel in the house of lords and David Cameron and Greg Knight in the commons I think there is adequte representation to forwarn the classic car owner of upcomming issues.
Edited by plasticpig on Wednesday 9th May 18:31
Edited by plasticpig on Wednesday 9th May 18:36
jith said:
stuff
I agree with you. When & if the time comes, we need to shout very loudly and carry a big stick. However, we must not cry wolf time & time again.
If a particular city centre were to be pedestrianised to improve air quality, that petition could be posted up exactly the same, word for word, claiming that classic cars are to be banned. But taken in the context of pedestrianisation, you would be rightly miffed for thinking it wasn't quite as it had been presented to you.
What we have here is EU legislation that enables cities to place emmissions controls on vehicles that want to access central areas in times of unusually high pollution for a limited number of days a year. That is not at all unreasonable IMO, and a very different proposition to just saying classic cars are to be banned, without any context. The fact that old timers are being exempted anyway surely demonstrates that classics are not being banned, even in the context of the proposals, let alone as a stand alone claim that is presented without any context at all, as is the premise of the wording of the petition. There is nothing wrong with asking the government to resist any proposals, fair enough, but why not be a bit more specific and finger the particular bit of draft that concerns you? so we know what we're all talking about, otherwise its just general scaremongering without foundation, so what's the point?
As Plasticpig has already mentioned, the FHBVC, many MP's and the classic car magazines and clubs are keeping vigilante. When and if we're needed, they will let us know. I don't think that's being naive. I reckon a considered and measured response is much better than simply collecting names on a petition with a loaded wording based on an erroneous premise. Just in case? isn't that crying wolf?
The bit about Ford being in cahoots and plotting against us too is pure 'tin foil hat' stuff.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Wednesday 9th May 20:37
Balmoral Green said:
jith said:
stuff
I agree with you. When & if the time comes, we need to shout very loudly and carry a big stick. However, we must not cry wolf time & time again.
If a particular city centre were to be pedestrianised to improve air quality, that petition could be posted up exactly the same, word for word, claiming that classic cars are to be banned. But taken in the context of pedestrianisation, you would be rightly miffed for thinking it wasn't quite as it had been presented to you.
What we have here is EU legislation that enables cities to place emmissions controls on vehicles that want to access central areas in times of unusually high pollution for a limited number of days a year. That is not at all unreasonable IMO, and a very different proposition to just saying classic cars are to be banned, without any context. The fact that old timers are being exempted anyway surely demonstrates that classics are not being banned, even in the context of the proposals, let alone as a stand alone claim that is presented without any context at all, as is the premise of the wording of the petition. There is nothing wrong with asking the government to resist any proposals, fair enough, but why not be a bit more specific and finger the particular bit of draft that concerns you? so we know what we're all talking about, otherwise its just general scaremongering without foundation, so what's the point?
As Plasticpig has already mentioned, the FHBVC, many MP's and the classic car magazines and clubs are keeping vigilante. When and if we're needed, they will let us know. I don't think that's being naive. I reckon a considered and measured response is much better than simply collecting names on a petition with a loaded wording based on an erroneous premise. Just in case? isn't that crying wolf?
The bit about Ford being in cahoots and plotting against us too is pure 'tin foil hat' stuff.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Wednesday 9th May 20:37
Fair enough BG, but the petition is only part of the whole approach to "keeping an eye out" on all aspects, so I wouldn't be too hard on the petitioner.
I have it on authority from an American ex-Ford engineer that their policy is exactly as I stated, and I think to assume that these kind of corporations do not operate in this manner really is naive.
Only time will tell as they say.
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