Nice car for sale in Aus
Discussion
My car in a previous life was a 68 SS/RS convertable.
I'll stick with the de Tomaso.
Here's one for sale but not local:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
I'll stick with the de Tomaso.
Here's one for sale but not local:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
Muscle car prices - now there's a story. At the Barratt Jackson the prices have reached such a height that they are now stratospheric. However, as a word of caution on the current state of the market, I suggest you read this I copied from another site:-
As a collector car journalist, I have been watching the Barrett-Jackson auction for years. For the last five or so years, it has been very apparent that the Scottsdale auction is at best a bastion of greed and manipulation…and at worse, all-out fraud.
I’ve discussed B-J with collectors, dealers and enthusiasts, many of whom would be considered “insiders,” meaning they’ve bought and sold cars at B-J and other auctions, or are well-known in the collector car hobby. For some reason, it is this year that people are all finally grumbling and passing rumors in unison.
The bottom line is that Craig Jackson and the B-J company have really screwed themselves this year. Their contracts specifically promise every car three minutes on the stand. Due to ego and greed, they expanded the Scottsdale ’07 auction to the point they could not provide this, plus they had the audacity to do it on live television.
A well-known former head judge in the Ford Thunderbird circles was one of the sellers who had his car short-timed. He has already filed a law suit against B-J, and this is already headed towards class-action status.
According to this judge and other sources, it appears Barrett-Jackson was operating a bit on the same level as an evangelical healing show. They had assistants milling around asking what specific sellers thought their cars would bring. Armed with this information at the control desk, if a lot passed the value at which a seller indicated he’d be happy, the car would be rushed off and the gavel would fall – even if bidding was still very much alive.
Because the event was televised on live television via the Speed TV network, the plaintiff(s) now have video/audio proof that buyers were signaling increased bids before the three-minute marks, but were denied by a too-fast last call and hammer.
While this all might cause Barrett-Jackson to have to pay money to sellers in the form of a judgment or settlement, it is something else that might land Craig Jackson in jail.
It is no secret that Barrett-Jackson owns many cars that are run through the auction – it was something I suspected many, many years ago. This was proven when they started maintaining a showroom of cars in Arizona. This is not illegal, but stay with me.
I’ve always suspected that the cars owned by Craig Jackson and the B-J company were often driven up by shill bidders working for the company. Essentially, the strategy works in the sense that ever since the auction focus moved from classics like Packards and Duesenbergs to muscle cars, B-J has been able to shill, say a Hemi Cuda or mid-year Corvette 427 they own, which causes the value of the 10 other identical cars to increase. They wind up “buying” their own car back, but the others go on to regular buyers, who now are paying higher because of the perception the market has moved up.
This suspicion has been validated by auction attendees this year that witnessed cars sold at auction headed in trailers back to B-J’s warehouse. The lawsuit allegedly points out that these cars also spent significantly more time on the block than others.
If this isn’t all interesting enough, during this year’s auction, fellow collector car journalist, Keith Martin of Sports Car Market, was booted from the Westworld premises and his media credentials revoked for voicing loud, specific concern regarding the event while sitting in the media room. Barrett-Jackson accused Keith Martin of “holding court” and attempting to send VIPs and journalists to the competing RM and Russo and Steele auction events. Among the alleged opinions included that the cars at B-J were of inferior quality (and had quality misrepresented,) as well as that the bidders were significantly over-bidding cars, which shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who has witnessed people paying six figures for cars they could have bought for under $50,000 any other day of the year!!!
This is somewhat of an interesting twist. Keith Martin’s publication has marketed the B-J events and has helped fuel its popularity. Keith is definitely one of the great “insiders” of the hobby, and has been a friend to Craig Jackson. In past years, Keith nor his publication have been critical of the goings-on and rumors, while other collector car journalists have been outwardly screaming that something stunk.
It makes sense, since Sports Car Market really only tracks the value of vehicles and other items sold at auction, rather than via private sales (which really has skewed SCM’s values for years!) So without kissing-ass to B-J, Keith would have missed insider info on the largest events covered by his mag. So we can only guess that Keith and Craig had a falling out of some type.
I applaud Keith for turning the corner on his view of B-J, but I’m with others I’ve talked to about this: I hate to say this about a colleague, but I felt his behavior was a bit unprofessional. As journalists, it is our responsibility to write what we think, but going to the show for years, then promoting RM and Russo+Steele while at Westworld is somewhat unprofessional. I agree that Keith, a true hobbyist who started out by writing an Alfa Romeo newsletter, was for a long time too much a part of the “circus” about which he finally rejected, and that SCM has to a significant degree helped to fuel misinformation and a house of cards regarding specific auction prices and bidding behavior. Keith, by all accounts, is a really good guy — an enthusiast, who maybe just needed to take a step back and a big breath and reacquaint himself with those outside of the very insulated collector car “in crowd” — and spend time with some car people who are not trying to exploit the collectors. There are plenty of guys who have dug themselves too deep into this little crowd, and are no longer fun to deal with, because they’ve put personal greed well ahead of the cars and the collectors. Keith will rebound — he has a great internal staff of really fantastic people, who hopefully will help him return to his roots.
That being said… While I’ve never met him, the buzz among those in the hobby — both collectors and journalists, is that Craig Jackson is quite arrogant, so don’t expect many to come to his rescue. He inherited his father’s company, and has fueled B-J’s growth with a combination of intelligence, drive, ego, and greed. While there is nothing wrong with that combination, when it results in unethical and possibly illegal activities, that’s inexcusable.
Like many surrounding the hobby, I will be watching the events unfold. Will the Westworld tents come down like a house of cards, or will everything just go away with an exchange of a little money? It’s hard to predict. Craig Jackson has become a very powerful man, and his company has pumped billions of dollars into the Arizona economy over the years.
This all being said, there’s no doubt that Barrett-Jackson “jumped the shark” this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, Craig Jackson drove his allegedly shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that could lead to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit. If that’s the case, maybe he can get Sports Car Market in the slammer to keep-up on Russo and Steele, RM and Kruse auction results.
As a collector car journalist, I have been watching the Barrett-Jackson auction for years. For the last five or so years, it has been very apparent that the Scottsdale auction is at best a bastion of greed and manipulation…and at worse, all-out fraud.
I’ve discussed B-J with collectors, dealers and enthusiasts, many of whom would be considered “insiders,” meaning they’ve bought and sold cars at B-J and other auctions, or are well-known in the collector car hobby. For some reason, it is this year that people are all finally grumbling and passing rumors in unison.
The bottom line is that Craig Jackson and the B-J company have really screwed themselves this year. Their contracts specifically promise every car three minutes on the stand. Due to ego and greed, they expanded the Scottsdale ’07 auction to the point they could not provide this, plus they had the audacity to do it on live television.
A well-known former head judge in the Ford Thunderbird circles was one of the sellers who had his car short-timed. He has already filed a law suit against B-J, and this is already headed towards class-action status.
According to this judge and other sources, it appears Barrett-Jackson was operating a bit on the same level as an evangelical healing show. They had assistants milling around asking what specific sellers thought their cars would bring. Armed with this information at the control desk, if a lot passed the value at which a seller indicated he’d be happy, the car would be rushed off and the gavel would fall – even if bidding was still very much alive.
Because the event was televised on live television via the Speed TV network, the plaintiff(s) now have video/audio proof that buyers were signaling increased bids before the three-minute marks, but were denied by a too-fast last call and hammer.
While this all might cause Barrett-Jackson to have to pay money to sellers in the form of a judgment or settlement, it is something else that might land Craig Jackson in jail.
It is no secret that Barrett-Jackson owns many cars that are run through the auction – it was something I suspected many, many years ago. This was proven when they started maintaining a showroom of cars in Arizona. This is not illegal, but stay with me.
I’ve always suspected that the cars owned by Craig Jackson and the B-J company were often driven up by shill bidders working for the company. Essentially, the strategy works in the sense that ever since the auction focus moved from classics like Packards and Duesenbergs to muscle cars, B-J has been able to shill, say a Hemi Cuda or mid-year Corvette 427 they own, which causes the value of the 10 other identical cars to increase. They wind up “buying” their own car back, but the others go on to regular buyers, who now are paying higher because of the perception the market has moved up.
This suspicion has been validated by auction attendees this year that witnessed cars sold at auction headed in trailers back to B-J’s warehouse. The lawsuit allegedly points out that these cars also spent significantly more time on the block than others.
If this isn’t all interesting enough, during this year’s auction, fellow collector car journalist, Keith Martin of Sports Car Market, was booted from the Westworld premises and his media credentials revoked for voicing loud, specific concern regarding the event while sitting in the media room. Barrett-Jackson accused Keith Martin of “holding court” and attempting to send VIPs and journalists to the competing RM and Russo and Steele auction events. Among the alleged opinions included that the cars at B-J were of inferior quality (and had quality misrepresented,) as well as that the bidders were significantly over-bidding cars, which shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who has witnessed people paying six figures for cars they could have bought for under $50,000 any other day of the year!!!
This is somewhat of an interesting twist. Keith Martin’s publication has marketed the B-J events and has helped fuel its popularity. Keith is definitely one of the great “insiders” of the hobby, and has been a friend to Craig Jackson. In past years, Keith nor his publication have been critical of the goings-on and rumors, while other collector car journalists have been outwardly screaming that something stunk.
It makes sense, since Sports Car Market really only tracks the value of vehicles and other items sold at auction, rather than via private sales (which really has skewed SCM’s values for years!) So without kissing-ass to B-J, Keith would have missed insider info on the largest events covered by his mag. So we can only guess that Keith and Craig had a falling out of some type.
I applaud Keith for turning the corner on his view of B-J, but I’m with others I’ve talked to about this: I hate to say this about a colleague, but I felt his behavior was a bit unprofessional. As journalists, it is our responsibility to write what we think, but going to the show for years, then promoting RM and Russo+Steele while at Westworld is somewhat unprofessional. I agree that Keith, a true hobbyist who started out by writing an Alfa Romeo newsletter, was for a long time too much a part of the “circus” about which he finally rejected, and that SCM has to a significant degree helped to fuel misinformation and a house of cards regarding specific auction prices and bidding behavior. Keith, by all accounts, is a really good guy — an enthusiast, who maybe just needed to take a step back and a big breath and reacquaint himself with those outside of the very insulated collector car “in crowd” — and spend time with some car people who are not trying to exploit the collectors. There are plenty of guys who have dug themselves too deep into this little crowd, and are no longer fun to deal with, because they’ve put personal greed well ahead of the cars and the collectors. Keith will rebound — he has a great internal staff of really fantastic people, who hopefully will help him return to his roots.
That being said… While I’ve never met him, the buzz among those in the hobby — both collectors and journalists, is that Craig Jackson is quite arrogant, so don’t expect many to come to his rescue. He inherited his father’s company, and has fueled B-J’s growth with a combination of intelligence, drive, ego, and greed. While there is nothing wrong with that combination, when it results in unethical and possibly illegal activities, that’s inexcusable.
Like many surrounding the hobby, I will be watching the events unfold. Will the Westworld tents come down like a house of cards, or will everything just go away with an exchange of a little money? It’s hard to predict. Craig Jackson has become a very powerful man, and his company has pumped billions of dollars into the Arizona economy over the years.
This all being said, there’s no doubt that Barrett-Jackson “jumped the shark” this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, Craig Jackson drove his allegedly shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that could lead to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit. If that’s the case, maybe he can get Sports Car Market in the slammer to keep-up on Russo and Steele, RM and Kruse auction results.
Yes, those BJ Auction prices are something else are they not.
Much like the UK housing stock, somewhat overpriced.
Fortunitely for me I own a car few people have ever heard of, let alone seen. Plenty of diehard petrol heads at Goodwood last Sunday were comeing up to the car to find out what it was.
Now this is all good for buyers such as I who have no intention of ever selling, but no good for any speculating classic car dealer. You'll rarely earn money on a de Tomaso investment as the prices have been pretty much the same for years with only the very best condition cars together with the odd original factory race Pantera increasing in value.
I like it that way and just enjoy helping to raise awareness of the marque.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
Much like the UK housing stock, somewhat overpriced.
Fortunitely for me I own a car few people have ever heard of, let alone seen. Plenty of diehard petrol heads at Goodwood last Sunday were comeing up to the car to find out what it was.
Now this is all good for buyers such as I who have no intention of ever selling, but no good for any speculating classic car dealer. You'll rarely earn money on a de Tomaso investment as the prices have been pretty much the same for years with only the very best condition cars together with the odd original factory race Pantera increasing in value.
I like it that way and just enjoy helping to raise awareness of the marque.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
Transmitter Man said:
Yes, those BJ Auction prices are something else are they not.
Much like the UK housing stock, somewhat overpriced.
Fortunitely for me I own a car few people have ever heard of, let alone seen. Plenty of diehard petrol heads at Goodwood last Sunday were comeing up to the car to find out what it was.
Now this is all good for buyers such as I who have no intention of ever selling, but no good for any speculating classic car dealer. You'll rarely earn money on a de Tomaso investment as the prices have been pretty much the same for years with only the very best condition cars together with the odd original factory race Pantera increasing in value.
I like it that way and just enjoy helping to raise awareness of the marque.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
Much like the UK housing stock, somewhat overpriced.
Fortunitely for me I own a car few people have ever heard of, let alone seen. Plenty of diehard petrol heads at Goodwood last Sunday were comeing up to the car to find out what it was.
Now this is all good for buyers such as I who have no intention of ever selling, but no good for any speculating classic car dealer. You'll rarely earn money on a de Tomaso investment as the prices have been pretty much the same for years with only the very best condition cars together with the odd original factory race Pantera increasing in value.
I like it that way and just enjoy helping to raise awareness of the marque.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
Hi Phil
I'm a big fan of your car. I noticed before you said you picked up a you r Longchamp for about 10k. Do you think those kinds of prices remain the norm?
Hi Gwyn,
Yes, however the problem is finding a clean, original example with minimal or no tinworm!
You can pay more for a minter so it's yp to you to try and find the right car within your budget.
IMO the GTS/GTSE (factory optional wide alloys and arches) is the model to go for.
When I could not find what I wanted in the UK I place a "WANTED - DO NOT BID" ad on eBay and received three responses from around the globe. Ended up finding mine in Belgium.
If you don't mind importing from abroad then I can put some links of cars currently for sale for you.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
Yes, however the problem is finding a clean, original example with minimal or no tinworm!
You can pay more for a minter so it's yp to you to try and find the right car within your budget.
IMO the GTS/GTSE (factory optional wide alloys and arches) is the model to go for.
When I could not find what I wanted in the UK I place a "WANTED - DO NOT BID" ad on eBay and received three responses from around the globe. Ended up finding mine in Belgium.
If you don't mind importing from abroad then I can put some links of cars currently for sale for you.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
Thanks Phil
I'm wondering if you could point me in the direction of a source with decent spec info on the Longchamp.
Luckily I know someone who rebuilt the 305 Chevy in my old K10 and he knows his stuff and also know someone in the body business so restoration wouldn't cause too may probs if I decided to go down the cheaper route.
Thanks again
I'm wondering if you could point me in the direction of a source with decent spec info on the Longchamp.
Luckily I know someone who rebuilt the 305 Chevy in my old K10 and he knows his stuff and also know someone in the body business so restoration wouldn't cause too may probs if I decided to go down the cheaper route.
Thanks again
Here you go:
The factory site: www.detomaso.it/
Longchamp GTS project car for sale on the Swedish DT site:
www.detomaso.nu/ Looks like the majority of the work is done with fresh paint etc!
Got to be worth a call.
Serious Longchamp restoration: www.fortunecity.de/hockenheim/lauda/328/Restauration.htm
Always some DT's for sale on this German site: www.mobile.de/
www.panteracars.com/carpage.html
www.pim.net/pim1.html
www.autosupermarket.it/
www.qv500.com/detomasoregistrycfs.php
www.fa-automobile.com/index.php
www.classicdriver.com/uk/1000.asp
www.classicsportscars.com/
http://tinyurl.com/36d86x
http://web.mac.com/kirbyschrader/long
http://web.mac.com/kirbyschrader/long
Enjoy.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
The factory site: www.detomaso.it/
Longchamp GTS project car for sale on the Swedish DT site:
www.detomaso.nu/ Looks like the majority of the work is done with fresh paint etc!
Got to be worth a call.
Serious Longchamp restoration: www.fortunecity.de/hockenheim/lauda/328/Restauration.htm
Always some DT's for sale on this German site: www.mobile.de/
www.panteracars.com/carpage.html
www.pim.net/pim1.html
www.autosupermarket.it/
www.qv500.com/detomasoregistrycfs.php
www.fa-automobile.com/index.php
www.classicdriver.com/uk/1000.asp
www.classicsportscars.com/
http://tinyurl.com/36d86x
http://web.mac.com/kirbyschrader/long
http://web.mac.com/kirbyschrader/long
Enjoy.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
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