Talk to me about Rover P6 V8s
Discussion
'S' is manual, like hens' teeth. All others are auto unless DIY converted.
Don't expect much in the way of performance, but they're certainly solid - trouble is it's hard to spot the corrosion that matters because it'll be well hidden in the 'hull' structure.
There will be mounting points for two rear seat belts, but you may have to source your own belts.
Don't buy a mud-coloured one.
Don't expect much in the way of performance, but they're certainly solid - trouble is it's hard to spot the corrosion that matters because it'll be well hidden in the 'hull' structure.
There will be mounting points for two rear seat belts, but you may have to source your own belts.
Don't buy a mud-coloured one.
3500S was the manual version of the V8 faster than many British sports cars in its day
For autos a 2200 TC(?) is a minimum for everyday use
Whatever model get one with power steering
Selt belts in the rear were not standard but can be added, the back seats are wonderfully comfortable that's where I sat when not driving
P6 won awards for safety when it first came out
Look I could go on forever, go and test drive a couple of GOOD examples
If you buy, pay as much as you can afford for the best example you can find
www.p6roc.co.uk/ one of the clubs, plenty of info
Edit: sorry I have to dissagree with Nick F about performance of at least the V8S I owned, have a look at my profile it's not like I've always owned slow cars so I do know a bit about standard road performance vehicles
For autos a 2200 TC(?) is a minimum for everyday use
Whatever model get one with power steering
Selt belts in the rear were not standard but can be added, the back seats are wonderfully comfortable that's where I sat when not driving
P6 won awards for safety when it first came out
Look I could go on forever, go and test drive a couple of GOOD examples
If you buy, pay as much as you can afford for the best example you can find
www.p6roc.co.uk/ one of the clubs, plenty of info
Edit: sorry I have to dissagree with Nick F about performance of at least the V8S I owned, have a look at my profile it's not like I've always owned slow cars so I do know a bit about standard road performance vehicles
Edited by Sporting Bear on Thursday 22 March 16:38
The White P6 in Life on Mars was a 1970 3500 Auto Series 1. There were no manual Series 1 3500s.
If you are after a V8 then it's a bit complicated.
A pre-72 one runs as a 10.5:1 high compression V8, these are all autos, Borg Warner 35, three speed with full throttle kickdown. The box is very durable, cheap to replace/recondition (about £200-250) and sturdy, it was RR's/Bentley box of choice for the era and countless others slushbox of choice for years. I've heard a 3500 auto can be converted to a Toyota 4-speed auto which gives a better response. It's cheaper to take a 3500S and make it look like a 3500 Series 1 than convert a 3500 auto to manual.
The pre-73 V8 itself is meant to run on 100 octane 5* fuel, a modern equivalent is Shell V-power + a octane booster. They can be converted to unleaded but unless you are doing mega miles is not worth it.
You will get 18mpg on a run, about 12mpg around town. It is possible to convert to LPG and there are plenty of people that have done it, the valve seat durability needs to be checked though and dual fuelling might be required. Get a boot mounted spare tyre kit (very retro) and you can easily fit a 44-ltr LPG tank in the boot. It's also possible to convert to Weber 500s from SU6s, this will give another 3-5mpg and also more horses, it's expensive at about £1200 (with Edelbrock manifold change).
Post 1972, the auto was changed to a smoother Borg Warner 65 and a manual 3500S was launched. The car moved over with cosmetic changes to Series 2.
The 3500S is a 4-speed manual and it's difficult to get an tax exempt one. The LT77 gearbox is basically a reinforced Rover 2000 gearbox to take the torquey V8, it was used in countless BL cars, SD1, Sherpa and was replaced by the PG1 in the 1980s. It's tough, needs oil changes though but generally reliable. The worst problem is the gearbox linkage works out of alignment leading to the car dropping out of reverse and making 1 and 2nd gear difficult to select. It can be easily fixed. A poorly treated gearbox whines noticably making them easy to spot. Again, a recon LT77 is about £250. A PG1 conversion, about £500.
The post 73 V8 is a 9.5:1 compression designed to run on 4* 98 Octane fuel, a valve seat lead replacement will need to be added to fuel. To make up with the power loss, it got a bigger bore exhaust and redesigned exhaust manifolds.
In both V8 cars it's possible to adjust the timing down to 95 Octane but my 10.5:1 engine pinks like mad on it. I'm set to the 99 Octane of V-Power plus BP Valvemaster.
It's a question of taste, the Series 2 has 70s kitsch but more dials, more kit and more power. 0-60 of the 3500S is a respectable 9 seconds, 10.5 in the auto. A 3500S should turn in 23 mpg on a run about 16mpg in town. A Series 1 has simpler lines, ally grille and more old school charm.
In terms of ownership, a Series 1 3500 auto is very simple to own, it has four fuses making the electrics a doddle. A 3500S has 11 fuses, mainly down to more dials and cab lighting options. A 3500S has things like clutch and all the manual gearbox gubbings and also dual braking circuits to the 3500 auto's one.
As for servicing, they were designed to run on a 3,000 and 6,000 mile interval. It is very easy to service yourself. V8s are rarely stressed but need regular oil changes every 3 months for a daily driver.
Spares, only the cosmetics are getting tricky to source, most expensive item is a rear bumper (£300). As for suspension parts, drivetrain, engine, electrics, these are generally cheap easy and can be at your door in 24 hours. Brake components can be pricey, a complete brake servo is £200 and calipers about £75 each (recon'd). Some suspension components are pricey, the rear suspension is complex but very tough.
As for garage work, most good 'arches' will do the work, they'll probably fight over who does it. They are very simple to work on, the only real grotty jobs are replacing the rear brake pads and discs (inboard). This is usually easiest to remove the driveshafts to the wheels off the diff. The other is replacing suspension ball joints, most owners polybrush these for longevity. Engine out can be tricky but this really is only a restorer nightmare, there aren't any mechanical jobs that need the engine out.
A P6 is still a great drive to modern standards, it has a semi-independent rear set-up (DeDion) based, RWD and is very, very solid. There are simple fixing points for rear seat belts. It is based on a base unit and the unstressed body panels are bolted on. Double membrane bulkheads, fuel tank positioned behind the rear suspension and protected. Steering rack protected in a front on shunt. Servo-assisted disc brakes all round that stop the car well and very happy on radials. The P6 wheel stud pattern will take SD1 alloys and lower profile tyres HOWEVER clearance to the bodywork needs careful consideration. It is possible to run these cars on modern tyres.
In terms of bodywork, they are complicated by the base unit design. My advice is join one of the two clubs either The P6 Drivers Club or P6 Owners Club. They offer buying guides which give you the best way to check for rot.
In terms of safety, the most infamous P6 crash was Princess Grace of Monaco, she had a stroke at the wheel with Princess Stephanie (?) as a passenger. The car went 200ft down the side of a cliff, rolled several times. Sadly Princess Grace died probably almost instantly of her stroke, her passenger survived with only cuts and bruises.
These cars are a steal, an really excellent 3500S will cost about £4-5,000, a 3500 auto about £3,500-4,250. They gone up a £750/£1000 in about three years. The good news is it very rare for someone to try and polish a turd at that price. Cars tend to be honestly sold.
Anything cheaper might be tattier, bodywork is everything to these cars. Panel rot is simple, unbolt the panel, bolt on a new one. Base unit rot will result in welding. Welding any classic is expensive, the sills of a P6 come in three parts and cost about £500 a side
If you are going to use it everyday, underseal everything, the underside, inside the wings, inside the door skins, the sills, everything. P6s do rot, they are made from excellent 22 and 24 gauge thick steel and it takes a time to come through. If you can keep the car in a dry heated garage, this will help. Dry the car throughly before undersealing.
Worth considering is a 2200TC, about 125Bhp, these are nearly as quick as the V8, a four-pot twin carb but more economical, about 26-27mpg. Engine parts tend to be harder to source but not impossible. Series 1 2000TCs are also no slow coaches, they have 110Bhp and good for 0-60 in 11 seconds. Good for about 22mpg as well.
Join an owner's club for about £20, get a buyer's guide for about £3 from them and then look for a good one.
I pay about £170 a year for 3,000 miles fully comp, full value replacement at £4000 for theft or write-off. You can get unlimited miles policies, try Lancaster and Footman James.
If you are after a V8 then it's a bit complicated.
A pre-72 one runs as a 10.5:1 high compression V8, these are all autos, Borg Warner 35, three speed with full throttle kickdown. The box is very durable, cheap to replace/recondition (about £200-250) and sturdy, it was RR's/Bentley box of choice for the era and countless others slushbox of choice for years. I've heard a 3500 auto can be converted to a Toyota 4-speed auto which gives a better response. It's cheaper to take a 3500S and make it look like a 3500 Series 1 than convert a 3500 auto to manual.
The pre-73 V8 itself is meant to run on 100 octane 5* fuel, a modern equivalent is Shell V-power + a octane booster. They can be converted to unleaded but unless you are doing mega miles is not worth it.
You will get 18mpg on a run, about 12mpg around town. It is possible to convert to LPG and there are plenty of people that have done it, the valve seat durability needs to be checked though and dual fuelling might be required. Get a boot mounted spare tyre kit (very retro) and you can easily fit a 44-ltr LPG tank in the boot. It's also possible to convert to Weber 500s from SU6s, this will give another 3-5mpg and also more horses, it's expensive at about £1200 (with Edelbrock manifold change).
Post 1972, the auto was changed to a smoother Borg Warner 65 and a manual 3500S was launched. The car moved over with cosmetic changes to Series 2.
The 3500S is a 4-speed manual and it's difficult to get an tax exempt one. The LT77 gearbox is basically a reinforced Rover 2000 gearbox to take the torquey V8, it was used in countless BL cars, SD1, Sherpa and was replaced by the PG1 in the 1980s. It's tough, needs oil changes though but generally reliable. The worst problem is the gearbox linkage works out of alignment leading to the car dropping out of reverse and making 1 and 2nd gear difficult to select. It can be easily fixed. A poorly treated gearbox whines noticably making them easy to spot. Again, a recon LT77 is about £250. A PG1 conversion, about £500.
The post 73 V8 is a 9.5:1 compression designed to run on 4* 98 Octane fuel, a valve seat lead replacement will need to be added to fuel. To make up with the power loss, it got a bigger bore exhaust and redesigned exhaust manifolds.
In both V8 cars it's possible to adjust the timing down to 95 Octane but my 10.5:1 engine pinks like mad on it. I'm set to the 99 Octane of V-Power plus BP Valvemaster.
It's a question of taste, the Series 2 has 70s kitsch but more dials, more kit and more power. 0-60 of the 3500S is a respectable 9 seconds, 10.5 in the auto. A 3500S should turn in 23 mpg on a run about 16mpg in town. A Series 1 has simpler lines, ally grille and more old school charm.
In terms of ownership, a Series 1 3500 auto is very simple to own, it has four fuses making the electrics a doddle. A 3500S has 11 fuses, mainly down to more dials and cab lighting options. A 3500S has things like clutch and all the manual gearbox gubbings and also dual braking circuits to the 3500 auto's one.
As for servicing, they were designed to run on a 3,000 and 6,000 mile interval. It is very easy to service yourself. V8s are rarely stressed but need regular oil changes every 3 months for a daily driver.
Spares, only the cosmetics are getting tricky to source, most expensive item is a rear bumper (£300). As for suspension parts, drivetrain, engine, electrics, these are generally cheap easy and can be at your door in 24 hours. Brake components can be pricey, a complete brake servo is £200 and calipers about £75 each (recon'd). Some suspension components are pricey, the rear suspension is complex but very tough.
As for garage work, most good 'arches' will do the work, they'll probably fight over who does it. They are very simple to work on, the only real grotty jobs are replacing the rear brake pads and discs (inboard). This is usually easiest to remove the driveshafts to the wheels off the diff. The other is replacing suspension ball joints, most owners polybrush these for longevity. Engine out can be tricky but this really is only a restorer nightmare, there aren't any mechanical jobs that need the engine out.
A P6 is still a great drive to modern standards, it has a semi-independent rear set-up (DeDion) based, RWD and is very, very solid. There are simple fixing points for rear seat belts. It is based on a base unit and the unstressed body panels are bolted on. Double membrane bulkheads, fuel tank positioned behind the rear suspension and protected. Steering rack protected in a front on shunt. Servo-assisted disc brakes all round that stop the car well and very happy on radials. The P6 wheel stud pattern will take SD1 alloys and lower profile tyres HOWEVER clearance to the bodywork needs careful consideration. It is possible to run these cars on modern tyres.
In terms of bodywork, they are complicated by the base unit design. My advice is join one of the two clubs either The P6 Drivers Club or P6 Owners Club. They offer buying guides which give you the best way to check for rot.
In terms of safety, the most infamous P6 crash was Princess Grace of Monaco, she had a stroke at the wheel with Princess Stephanie (?) as a passenger. The car went 200ft down the side of a cliff, rolled several times. Sadly Princess Grace died probably almost instantly of her stroke, her passenger survived with only cuts and bruises.
These cars are a steal, an really excellent 3500S will cost about £4-5,000, a 3500 auto about £3,500-4,250. They gone up a £750/£1000 in about three years. The good news is it very rare for someone to try and polish a turd at that price. Cars tend to be honestly sold.
Anything cheaper might be tattier, bodywork is everything to these cars. Panel rot is simple, unbolt the panel, bolt on a new one. Base unit rot will result in welding. Welding any classic is expensive, the sills of a P6 come in three parts and cost about £500 a side
If you are going to use it everyday, underseal everything, the underside, inside the wings, inside the door skins, the sills, everything. P6s do rot, they are made from excellent 22 and 24 gauge thick steel and it takes a time to come through. If you can keep the car in a dry heated garage, this will help. Dry the car throughly before undersealing.
Worth considering is a 2200TC, about 125Bhp, these are nearly as quick as the V8, a four-pot twin carb but more economical, about 26-27mpg. Engine parts tend to be harder to source but not impossible. Series 1 2000TCs are also no slow coaches, they have 110Bhp and good for 0-60 in 11 seconds. Good for about 22mpg as well.
Join an owner's club for about £20, get a buyer's guide for about £3 from them and then look for a good one.
I pay about £170 a year for 3,000 miles fully comp, full value replacement at £4000 for theft or write-off. You can get unlimited miles policies, try Lancaster and Footman James.
Edited by 215cu on Thursday 22 March 17:04
My 3500S was fully serviced, used everyday and returned 17mpg round town and about 26 mpg on a run, sometimes I took it steady, 50mph, but not always, if I was on a dual carriageway the clock may show 80-90mph - of course it was wrong I was doing 70mph 
As with all cars especially classics they run better (and more economically) and reliably if used frequently
A lot of classic owners don't use their cars enough beware of that when purchasing
As with all cars especially classics they run better (and more economically) and reliably if used frequently
A lot of classic owners don't use their cars enough beware of that when purchasing
Sporting Bear said:
My 3500S was fully serviced, used everyday and returned 17mpg round town and about 26 mpg on a run, sometimes I took it steady, 50mph, but not always, if I was on a dual carriageway the clock may show 80-90mph - of course it was wrong I was doing 70mph
As with all cars especially classics they run better (and more economically) and reliably if used frequently
A lot of classic owners don't use their cars enough beware of that when purchasing
As with all cars especially classics they run better (and more economically) and reliably if used frequently
A lot of classic owners don't use their cars enough beware of that when purchasing
Oh god, have to do that. Those V8s love some revs and speed. Of course, my strip speedo was well out at 95mph on a test track
I need a Police spoiler on mine though, too much lift-off from the front when I go a bit quick 215cu said:
Oh god, have to do that. Those V8s love some revs and speed. Of course, my strip speedo was well out at 95mph on a test track I need a Police spoiler on mine though, too much lift-off from the front when I go a bit quick
I need a Police spoiler on mine though, too much lift-off from the front when I go a bit quick Good point, they go a little light but not too bad and you can feel cross winds but still a real pleasure to drive
(whoops, not trying to turn this into a speed competion, but they're not slow)
On a very faulty Road Angel I clocked 110 mph before I realised the speed of that reading, I think when new top speed was claimed at 124 mph (? ask an old copper they'd know, they loved 'em)
Another point, four seater only really, I not sure how they got tall burley coppers in the back
You've probably picked up 215cu and I are somewhat keen on the cars so now you need someone who's never owned a good example to tell you they're rubbish, all cars have their faults if only small ones but some are a lot, lot easier to forgive
Edited by Sporting Bear on Thursday 22 March 17:47
tog said:
Looks good if a bit over the odds, for that money it should have to be pristine, no imperfections in the bodywork, not a speck on the chrome and the interior must be completely spotless, no rips, tears or marks. All stickers must be in place, small things like a battery box complete with two fastenings (these things are somewhat anal but important, new fasteners are £50 a pair - rare!). The engine bay looks a little untidy too.
It also seems a bit jacked up on its front wheels, don't know why it would unless there's a lot of weight aft.
Balmoral Green said:
Touring kits, ie, plonking the spare on the boot deck. Horrible, just horrible.
You don't have to have the spare on the boot if you have the touring kit fitted - in fact if you do the boot lid is very heavy and requires a prop to keep it open. There's a big viking badge that covers the mount point for when you're not touring. However, the boot is not that large on a P6 (especially if it has an LPG tank in it like the one in the ad above) and if you are touring I can see the sense. That and an original Rover wood and chrome roof rack - like hen's teeth and if anyone has one knocking about please let me know!
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