Scared and confused in 'E-Type hell'
Discussion
Hi all, I am pretty much the new guy, hope you are kind to me
From being 8 years old, I wanted an E type Jag, and last year, I got one!
1969 Series 2, 2+2.
Tatty she was when I first saw her, but all the basics were there, a complete car, solid (apart from the rot in the front of the floor pans - 2 new ones bought) just in need of recommissioning after 4 years stood in a garage.
Totally new to the game of restoration, I duly set about taking care of the essentials first.
By that I mean I restored the centre console and ashtray.
Pleased with my work, I confidently set about restoring the bodywork, and well, this is where I found out I am not a natural at this kind of stuff!
After much sanding, stripping, and general tripping up over things, the bonnet was clean and ready for more work (the centre console was on a shelf covered in shite at this point, oh well!).
Then it hit me.
I CAN'T DO THIS!
So here I am, my childhood dream sat in a garage for far to long, half undressed, looking pretty sad.
I think part of my problem is respect, I love these cars, and I just know I am doing nobody any favours with my amatuer approach, and well, I am at the point of holding my hands up and giving in
So, to you guys, tell me I should carry on, tell me I should quit, just tell my something, so I can at least move forward in (any) direction, because right now, I am pretty much lost in a sea of 'Yay my dream car!' and 'OMG look at the SIZE of that engine, I will never even get that out, let alone restore it!'...
From being 8 years old, I wanted an E type Jag, and last year, I got one!
1969 Series 2, 2+2.
Tatty she was when I first saw her, but all the basics were there, a complete car, solid (apart from the rot in the front of the floor pans - 2 new ones bought) just in need of recommissioning after 4 years stood in a garage.
Totally new to the game of restoration, I duly set about taking care of the essentials first.
By that I mean I restored the centre console and ashtray.
Pleased with my work, I confidently set about restoring the bodywork, and well, this is where I found out I am not a natural at this kind of stuff!
After much sanding, stripping, and general tripping up over things, the bonnet was clean and ready for more work (the centre console was on a shelf covered in shite at this point, oh well!).
Then it hit me.
I CAN'T DO THIS!
So here I am, my childhood dream sat in a garage for far to long, half undressed, looking pretty sad.
I think part of my problem is respect, I love these cars, and I just know I am doing nobody any favours with my amatuer approach, and well, I am at the point of holding my hands up and giving in
So, to you guys, tell me I should carry on, tell me I should quit, just tell my something, so I can at least move forward in (any) direction, because right now, I am pretty much lost in a sea of 'Yay my dream car!' and 'OMG look at the SIZE of that engine, I will never even get that out, let alone restore it!'...
Ah, the oft told tale of the "ongoing restoration" and the realisation that the whole job is too big for you. There are several sources of help and advice (apart from the Samaritans) in the two Jaguar clubs, the Jaguar Drivers Club and the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club. Additionally there is an on line forum where you will find help at:-
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/j
Personally I am a member of the JDC and have been for many a year and would suggest you contact the local area representative for advice and help. His name is Brian Ekin and he can be contacted 0161 368 4312. He is a very knowledgable chap and will be able to put you right, whether it just be giving advice or pointing you in the direction of a trustworthy garage. Best of luck and let us know how you get on.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/j
Personally I am a member of the JDC and have been for many a year and would suggest you contact the local area representative for advice and help. His name is Brian Ekin and he can be contacted 0161 368 4312. He is a very knowledgable chap and will be able to put you right, whether it just be giving advice or pointing you in the direction of a trustworthy garage. Best of luck and let us know how you get on.
If your background is not with older cars, get some help....and a Haynes manual.
If you can spare the time and money, get a professional to restore it, but get stuck in as much as you can so at least you can say you had a hand in doing it. This will also set you up better for maintaining the car in the future. Hope this helps.
If you can spare the time and money, get a professional to restore it, but get stuck in as much as you can so at least you can say you had a hand in doing it. This will also set you up better for maintaining the car in the future. Hope this helps.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but an E-TYPE is not a good choice is you have never restored a car before, when they were first built they were planned to be a flagship limited production run similar to the D-type and so no expensive production facilities were made, thus they were mostly hand built.
I think correct fitting of a new bonnet (i.e. replacing an accident damaged one) is about a week work for an experienced craftsman, since the new part is never an exact fit, I think they used lead lining to get accurate panel gaps and so on, producing a pristine E-type is a lot of work
I think correct fitting of a new bonnet (i.e. replacing an accident damaged one) is about a week work for an experienced craftsman, since the new part is never an exact fit, I think they used lead lining to get accurate panel gaps and so on, producing a pristine E-type is a lot of work
I have to say I agree with the above post.
A lack of doing your homework before parting with the cash.
We've all done it though to a certain extent, unfortunately, it becomes an expensive lesson with something like an E-Type.
All the realistic solutions to your predicament are going to be expensive I'm afraid.
You are faced with a choice of grinning and bearing it and trying to learn on the job, which by your admissions sounds not to be a good plan, as has been said, an E-Type as a first restoration project with no previous experience is a huge task.
The other expensive options are contract it out in part or whole to a professional, which will cost ££££££££ and much more than the car will ever be worth.
Or sell it at a loss as a project, and just go and buy one already done, which will be cheaper than the above.
I hope you find a satisfactory solution to your predicament, and as has been said, seek lots of practical advice from the owners clubs etc before making your mind up as to what to do.
A lack of doing your homework before parting with the cash.
We've all done it though to a certain extent, unfortunately, it becomes an expensive lesson with something like an E-Type.
All the realistic solutions to your predicament are going to be expensive I'm afraid.
You are faced with a choice of grinning and bearing it and trying to learn on the job, which by your admissions sounds not to be a good plan, as has been said, an E-Type as a first restoration project with no previous experience is a huge task.
The other expensive options are contract it out in part or whole to a professional, which will cost ££££££££ and much more than the car will ever be worth.
Or sell it at a loss as a project, and just go and buy one already done, which will be cheaper than the above.
I hope you find a satisfactory solution to your predicament, and as has been said, seek lots of practical advice from the owners clubs etc before making your mind up as to what to do.
We have a series 2 2+2, and it came out of a container covered in Triumph bits from California. It had no bonnet, perished interior and no dashboard. We had a friend who was great with bodywork, so whilst it looks good the engine and gearbox were ropey. We have had the car since 1996, and it hasn't covered many miles. We have spent a fair bit of cash on it now, and its in for a recon engine and manual gearbox, since the original block and auto were shot - the likely reason why it had been living in a scrapyard in cali. we should be getting it back around April and intend to use it over the summer months. A long road, but we dont have much time to get busy with the car, so bit by bit we are getting there.
So what advice can i give?
By all means let someone sort the bonnet for you. Each Etype bonnet was built to fit the particular car it was fitted to. It is a large piece of bodywork. As you are struggling with bodywork, get a load of decent tools and have a go at the mechanicals. There are a large inventory of spares for the XK engine, and using the proper workshop manuals, forums etc loads of advice available. With the bonnett off, everything is accessible.
Good luck, and let us know how you get on.
So what advice can i give?
By all means let someone sort the bonnet for you. Each Etype bonnet was built to fit the particular car it was fitted to. It is a large piece of bodywork. As you are struggling with bodywork, get a load of decent tools and have a go at the mechanicals. There are a large inventory of spares for the XK engine, and using the proper workshop manuals, forums etc loads of advice available. With the bonnett off, everything is accessible.
Good luck, and let us know how you get on.
Edited by joesnow on Tuesday 6th March 10:17
Some pics of an incredible E-type S1 Roadster restoration a friend of mine carried out.
And this is how it is now (about 10 years later). Stupid picture, I know. But the car is stunning:
I think mechanically it is pretty straight forward, but getting the bodywork right is a difficult job indeed.
And this is how it is now (about 10 years later). Stupid picture, I know. But the car is stunning:
I think mechanically it is pretty straight forward, but getting the bodywork right is a difficult job indeed.
Combover said:
Joesnow,
What mods needed doing to replace the auto 'box with a manual? Are they similar in size externally?
What mods needed doing to replace the auto 'box with a manual? Are they similar in size externally?
it is pretty much a straight forward swop as far as i know. The transmission tunnel is slightly larger to accomodate the auto, so the size difference is fine. Man to auto would be a problem. I'm not sure about the electrics side of the swop. We are having this done for us, but I remember the guy saying that manual boxes out of xj6s have the gearleaver further forward so require some work. xj6 manuals are cheaper than xke boxes. It should be a belter when we get it back.
If you are going from auto to a manual box I'd suggest that you get a series 1 XJ6 overdrive box which I've seen in quite a few E types. The prop shaft needs shortening but apart from that it is a simple swop and with the overdrive gives a great cruising ratio with reduced consumption. At the same time one friend changed the rear axle ratio to an american 2.88 from 3.54 (a later V12 car this) and at 60mph the engine was turning at about 1,500 revs. On a trip to Monaco in 1994 his V12 had the same fuel comsumption as my 3.8 with a 3.31 rear axle - 23mpg.
The e-type pic in my profile is of when purchased - hadn't run in 5 years. Like yours needed some work to the floors, rear axle rebuild, suspension and brakes rebuild and engine rebuild - all of which were done. It's still a bit tatty in places - ie interior but I wanted fast not pretty
Previously done a couple of mgs, some racecar builds and mini. Took about 400 hours (lots of faffing - actually one bolt ( I think the one into the end of the crank) too ages to shift. Used Haynes manual to get some stuff correctly located.
Could you get some of the jobs that you are finding hard done by a garage? This may make you feel better and when it comes back spur you on to give the remaining jobs a go
Previously done a couple of mgs, some racecar builds and mini. Took about 400 hours (lots of faffing - actually one bolt ( I think the one into the end of the crank) too ages to shift. Used Haynes manual to get some stuff correctly located.
Could you get some of the jobs that you are finding hard done by a garage? This may make you feel better and when it comes back spur you on to give the remaining jobs a go
Nah, I think I am pretty much done to be honest
I am no car restorer, I am a car lover, and there is a massive difference, as it turns out!
I know the car inside out, but then I did before I got it, I know about the lead welding to finish it at the factory, and now have seen it for myself, which was actually very very cool.
I have the original bonnet intact, since someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, so that's not an issue, the issue is me basically.
Sit me in a pub and ask me about E-types and I will scare you with how much I know and love them, but I think it's that time, where I hold my hands up and admit defeat, let the old girl go to someone who can do the job and enjoy her.
I'm not sad, I have enough about me to know it's the thing to do, so there we have it.
I will get one someday, I just need a car I can get in and enjoy.
For those who maybe haven't worked on an E-Type, let me put it this way.
I wanted to release the (tiny) back bumper, so I could send it off for re chroming. The bumper section is maybe 2ft long at most, so not a big deal right?
Wrong.
2 bolt secure it onto the body, one is easy enough to remove, but the other requires, wait for this, removal of the fuel tank to get to!
Bad eh? well, not done yet, to remove the fuel tank (which is inside the car, in the boot (trunk)) there are 3 bolts, 2 are a pain to remove, but the 3rd?
That requires you to DROP THE REAR SUBFRAME!
That's how the car is made, and damn it I still love em, but give me a finished one anyday please!
I can post pics if anyone is interested amore about the poor unfinished beauty
I am no car restorer, I am a car lover, and there is a massive difference, as it turns out!
I know the car inside out, but then I did before I got it, I know about the lead welding to finish it at the factory, and now have seen it for myself, which was actually very very cool.
I have the original bonnet intact, since someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, so that's not an issue, the issue is me basically.
Sit me in a pub and ask me about E-types and I will scare you with how much I know and love them, but I think it's that time, where I hold my hands up and admit defeat, let the old girl go to someone who can do the job and enjoy her.
I'm not sad, I have enough about me to know it's the thing to do, so there we have it.
I will get one someday, I just need a car I can get in and enjoy.
For those who maybe haven't worked on an E-Type, let me put it this way.
I wanted to release the (tiny) back bumper, so I could send it off for re chroming. The bumper section is maybe 2ft long at most, so not a big deal right?
Wrong.
2 bolt secure it onto the body, one is easy enough to remove, but the other requires, wait for this, removal of the fuel tank to get to!
Bad eh? well, not done yet, to remove the fuel tank (which is inside the car, in the boot (trunk)) there are 3 bolts, 2 are a pain to remove, but the 3rd?
That requires you to DROP THE REAR SUBFRAME!
That's how the car is made, and damn it I still love em, but give me a finished one anyday please!
I can post pics if anyone is interested amore about the poor unfinished beauty
ive been working on a s1 etype for about 8 months,it has been off the road for about 18 years and has been to three bodge job garages,most of the jobs have been a total nightmare
now its almost ready to be back on the road its an awesome feeling,and its not even my car!!
i never want to change the water pipes in an e again,possibly the worst job ive had to do
now its almost ready to be back on the road its an awesome feeling,and its not even my car!!
i never want to change the water pipes in an e again,possibly the worst job ive had to do
tossbag said:
Nah, I think I am pretty much done to be honest
I am no car restorer, I am a car lover, and there is a massive difference, as it turns out!
I know the car inside out, but then I did before I got it, I know about the lead welding to finish it at the factory, and now have seen it for myself, which was actually very very cool.
I have the original bonnet intact, since someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, so that's not an issue, the issue is me basically.
Sit me in a pub and ask me about E-types and I will scare you with how much I know and love them, but I think it's that time, where I hold my hands up and admit defeat, let the old girl go to someone who can do the job and enjoy her.
I'm not sad, I have enough about me to know it's the thing to do, so there we have it.
I will get one someday, I just need a car I can get in and enjoy.
For those who maybe haven't worked on an E-Type, let me put it this way.
I wanted to release the (tiny) back bumper, so I could send it off for re chroming. The bumper section is maybe 2ft long at most, so not a big deal right?
Wrong.
2 bolt secure it onto the body, one is easy enough to remove, but the other requires, wait for this, removal of the fuel tank to get to!
Bad eh? well, not done yet, to remove the fuel tank (which is inside the car, in the boot (trunk)) there are 3 bolts, 2 are a pain to remove, but the 3rd?
That requires you to DROP THE REAR SUBFRAME!
That's how the car is made, and damn it I still love em, but give me a finished one anyday please!
I can post pics if anyone is interested amore about the poor unfinished beauty
I am no car restorer, I am a car lover, and there is a massive difference, as it turns out!
I know the car inside out, but then I did before I got it, I know about the lead welding to finish it at the factory, and now have seen it for myself, which was actually very very cool.
I have the original bonnet intact, since someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, so that's not an issue, the issue is me basically.
Sit me in a pub and ask me about E-types and I will scare you with how much I know and love them, but I think it's that time, where I hold my hands up and admit defeat, let the old girl go to someone who can do the job and enjoy her.
I'm not sad, I have enough about me to know it's the thing to do, so there we have it.
I will get one someday, I just need a car I can get in and enjoy.
For those who maybe haven't worked on an E-Type, let me put it this way.
I wanted to release the (tiny) back bumper, so I could send it off for re chroming. The bumper section is maybe 2ft long at most, so not a big deal right?
Wrong.
2 bolt secure it onto the body, one is easy enough to remove, but the other requires, wait for this, removal of the fuel tank to get to!
Bad eh? well, not done yet, to remove the fuel tank (which is inside the car, in the boot (trunk)) there are 3 bolts, 2 are a pain to remove, but the 3rd?
That requires you to DROP THE REAR SUBFRAME!
That's how the car is made, and damn it I still love em, but give me a finished one anyday please!
I can post pics if anyone is interested amore about the poor unfinished beauty
Pics would be greate regarless, and welcome to pistonheads. Unhappily, the love of old cars has led to many a divorce, and lots of trips to see angry bank managers. They are not somehting which can be tackled lightly, despite the common misconception that they are simple to work on: "no electronics...."
My own brand of misery/ecstacy is Aston martin. Built with the same complete disregard for restorations as jaguars. Everyone with an old car has their own horror stories
BUT we love them. Keep up the good work, and keep asking for advice here, and elsewhere. Remember: you're not doing anything which hasent been done hundreds of times before. Just remember it takes love, time and money..
Not sure where you're located but for those jobs that you're thinking of farming out I can recommend www.hyper-transformations.com/
Jag specialists.
Very near J7 on the M40 in Oxfordshire.
I gave them a pile of jobs on my car, not a jag, and was both happy with the work and the bill.
I've no connection with them other than a happy chappy.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
Jag specialists.
Very near J7 on the M40 in Oxfordshire.
I gave them a pile of jobs on my car, not a jag, and was both happy with the work and the bill.
I've no connection with them other than a happy chappy.
Phil
79 de Tomaso Longchamp GTS
I finished a partial rebuild of a series2 dhc a few months ago. Initially I was told - when I took it on - it was just to get it running. Great I thought, charge the battery, points,timing etc. A couple of days work maybe. Wrong. When I got the car back to the workshop I realised what had happened. The car had been to a "specialist" that had stripped it down, then stopped and threw it back together. Basically the engine had broken head studs,cracked block, the wrong pistons, bent valves, corrosion on the inlet side of the head and more. The body was OK but mechanically was very sad.I replaced the whole braking system, had the block re-sleeved,head modded for unleaded,new pistons,bearings & chains in the engine, new UJ's and wheel bearings. Adjustable dampers, stainless exhaust new screen and a whole lot more. In the end the guy must have spent around £18k to get it back with an MOT but it wasnt perfect, but was useable and safe. There are loads of E-Type restorers out there but they all know that a good one is worth a fair bit of money, so charge accordingly. The likes of SNG Barratts make a huge amount of money, their catalogue is as thick as a phone book and in some cases the prices are like phone numbers!
If youre going to replace the 'box go for a 5 speed T5 unit from Derek Watson, kits come with the prop etc, youll need to supply the flywheel, bellhousing etc. Not a cheap mod either way you do it!!
If youre going to replace the 'box go for a 5 speed T5 unit from Derek Watson, kits come with the prop etc, youll need to supply the flywheel, bellhousing etc. Not a cheap mod either way you do it!!
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