Tax on Vintage and Classics
Discussion
ing Goverment is introducing a tax which will place most of our cars above chelsea tractor levels of road tax. Anyone know of this??I haven't heard about that, but I was told yesterday about this petition to get HMG to reintroduce the rolling 25-year cut off for historic vehicle free taxation. Definitely worth signing.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/historicca
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/historicca
Personally I think the "free tax" for classics was the worst thing that could have happened.
Why?
Well, bearing in mind the EU's plans for vehicle taxation harmonisation (and yes I know the FBHVC are fighting it), which would you rather do - pay some VED on your classic and be able to drive it when and where you want to, or pay no tax and be told by the government where and when you can drive it?
For most of Europe driving your classic is a restricted activity - sometimes it's distance (like 15 miles from your home, as in Belgium), in other cases you have to file a "flight plan" in advance and have to stick to; no "It's a nice afternoon so I'll go for a spin" for them!
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture!
Why?
Well, bearing in mind the EU's plans for vehicle taxation harmonisation (and yes I know the FBHVC are fighting it), which would you rather do - pay some VED on your classic and be able to drive it when and where you want to, or pay no tax and be told by the government where and when you can drive it?
For most of Europe driving your classic is a restricted activity - sometimes it's distance (like 15 miles from your home, as in Belgium), in other cases you have to file a "flight plan" in advance and have to stick to; no "It's a nice afternoon so I'll go for a spin" for them!
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture!
I used to be embarrassed to go and get my 'free' tax when I had my 1949 Bentley, I thought it was in principle bloody outrageous, there I am at the Post Office getting my tax free on a 2nd car that was a plaything, meanwhile someone needy was struggling to pay tax for their main car.
Even more outrageous when its some multi millionaire taxing his fleet of half million pound cars.
I think its just wrong, period.
If they want to subsidise heritage, they should find another less obvious and divisive way.
Even more outrageous when its some multi millionaire taxing his fleet of half million pound cars.
I think its just wrong, period.
If they want to subsidise heritage, they should find another less obvious and divisive way.
I don't think there should be road tax for any vehicle, I could see the logic a few years ago when it was a means of visually checking that cars had MOT and insurance, now they have computerised DBs I prefer the French system where they have abolished motor tax and added the duty as a percentage of fuel tax, it fairer since the further you drive the more you pay, a blanket charge for two individuals one who drives 1,000 miles a year another who drive 30,000 seems unfair. Even with this system the French still pay less than the UK's 70% plus fuel duty
revolvor said:
It would possibly cut down on uninsured drivers too if DVLC have the MOT/car details linked with insurers data bases.
Already the case: VOSA's computer holds the MoT details and the insurers have their own database which DVLA have access too, this is how you can now tax our car online. BiBs have access to it all too.
Another typically lame response then, somehow knew the environment would get in there...
The Government is committed to using Vehicle Excise Duty as a means of bringing environmental factors into consideration when people choose to take ownership of a car. Vehicle Excise Duty also helps to support the Government's wider policy objectives by providing a valuable source of revenue from which important public services may be funded.
The Government recognises that many historic car owners would have been disappointed when the 1998 Budget decision was made to freeze the rolling 25 year exemption at 1973. However, the Government continues to judge that in the light of its environmental focus for Vehicle Excise Duty it would be inappropriate to extend the exemption at this point in time.
It should be noted that the current exemption remains in force, currently benefiting some 307,407 vehicles, many of which will be maintained in careful preservation by their owners. The exemption applies equally to all historic cars built before January 1973 irrespective of their country of manufacture.
Some other types of historic vehicle are also exempt from payment of Vehicle Excise Duty. This Government decided to make all steam powered vehicles exempt from April 2001, benefiting vehicles like preserved steam powered road rollers and traction engines. Historic lorries built before 1973 are also exempt, provided that they are not used commercially.
The Government believes that it has got the balance right in the current exemptions it offers. In considering the case for further exemptions or changes to existing ones the Government has to consider the stability of its tax measures, the consistency of its environmental signal, and the costs of delivery - these would include initial implementation costs and ongoing administrative costs.
The Government is committed to using Vehicle Excise Duty as a means of bringing environmental factors into consideration when people choose to take ownership of a car. Vehicle Excise Duty also helps to support the Government's wider policy objectives by providing a valuable source of revenue from which important public services may be funded.
The Government recognises that many historic car owners would have been disappointed when the 1998 Budget decision was made to freeze the rolling 25 year exemption at 1973. However, the Government continues to judge that in the light of its environmental focus for Vehicle Excise Duty it would be inappropriate to extend the exemption at this point in time.
It should be noted that the current exemption remains in force, currently benefiting some 307,407 vehicles, many of which will be maintained in careful preservation by their owners. The exemption applies equally to all historic cars built before January 1973 irrespective of their country of manufacture.
Some other types of historic vehicle are also exempt from payment of Vehicle Excise Duty. This Government decided to make all steam powered vehicles exempt from April 2001, benefiting vehicles like preserved steam powered road rollers and traction engines. Historic lorries built before 1973 are also exempt, provided that they are not used commercially.
The Government believes that it has got the balance right in the current exemptions it offers. In considering the case for further exemptions or changes to existing ones the Government has to consider the stability of its tax measures, the consistency of its environmental signal, and the costs of delivery - these would include initial implementation costs and ongoing administrative costs.
Here in France VED was abolished some years back, but the worrying thing for classic owners is the "carte grise de collection" for all cars over 25 years old. Up until a couple of years ago we were allowed to drive our cars in our own and adjacent departments without problem, but if we went further we had to notify each and every prefecture of the exact route we proposed to take - impossible. That has been abolished too - but.....
What we are afraid of here, and you should be afraid too, is that the nerds at Brussels are going to use the separate classification of historic cars to control our movements and destination. There are, I believe, already such moves afoot in Germany. Of course it is great to have a nil VED, but if that means losing our right to use the cars as we see fit I'd rather pay the £X to keep my freedom. It is ridiculous to see veteran cars with flashing indicators (another innovation) and bit by bit legislation is creeping in. Watch out!
What we are afraid of here, and you should be afraid too, is that the nerds at Brussels are going to use the separate classification of historic cars to control our movements and destination. There are, I believe, already such moves afoot in Germany. Of course it is great to have a nil VED, but if that means losing our right to use the cars as we see fit I'd rather pay the £X to keep my freedom. It is ridiculous to see veteran cars with flashing indicators (another innovation) and bit by bit legislation is creeping in. Watch out!
I also think that the government response the petition was extremely lame. if the government really want to do something to reduce emmissions/pollution then encouraging use of older vehicles would be a great start. I know that many have quite high levels at the exhaust when compared with a modern engine but this is down to not having digital management of the fueling and ignition. Exhaust pipe emmissions are only part of a vehicles so called "carbon footprint". What about the masses of energy used to manufacture and recycle modern cars with a service life of less than a decade? Cars that are designed with safety in mind but have 4 inch thick "A" pillars which can actually obscure a car at a junction for upto 3 seconds! One quick impact later and off to the breakers. Yes modern cars have more safety features (and therefore weight) but are also at higher risk of being involved in a collision (not due to the lower number of classics either), I'd rather take my risks in a 30 year old design thats got great visibility but low on safety as its harder to be involved in a collision when you can actually see all the road 
Classic and historic vehicles are normally driven with more care because the last thing you want is some chav (or chavette) writing off your pride and joy in their jazzed up Citreon Paxo which means a lower chance of ending up "recycled". classic/historic vehicles are more basic in construction (less materials used = lower carbon footprint) and also considerably smaller.
There are also a lot of classic cars out there which have very low exhaust emmisions and where designed to run on low grade fuels which didn't have lead in it to prevent pre-ignition. My Reliant Kitten has a tiny 850cc engine does 60+ mpg and will take me and my family to the end of the world and back!
Don't just count CO2 like the government bulls**t says you have too, if you take a cat out of the pipe the CO2 drops dramatically CO and HC are higher but the CO2 is lower - its a catalytic converter not some magic tool for making chemicals disapear
Figures for emmisions are also based on set "drive cycles" not actual real life use. Even very large engined 4x4's can have a respectable exhaust emmision if they are spending most of there time on the dual carriageway or motorway at 56mph (the speed most economy figures are generated from), different story in a traffic jam or taking the kids to school. A 1.5t "small" car is also a similar tale, it takes a lot of energy to accelerate that mass, so all those so called safety features and other bells and whistles (which also create lots of pollution during manufacture) are making the cars even less efficient and therefore more polluting.
The government is also trying to bring in a compulsory lighting law - ie if your driving your lights should be on. - to improve safety, I assume that they think that headlights magically shine through the "A" pillars If you include everything that is illuminated when the lights are on (dash, side light, headlight tail light, radio, etc etc.) you can be consuming as much as 1.5kW (thats about 2hp.) all this from a government that wants you switch off you TV at the socket and not leave your computer in standby because of the vast amount of energy that uses. A TV on standby typically consumes 4-5W, so a 30 minute drive to work with your light on when not needed would consume about the same power to run you TV on standby for nearly a week. My conclusion is they've all gone mad or just don't understand even the most basic laws of physics.
Stop listening to the goverment lies and defend your classics. Write to your MP and tell him to stop listening to his/her own lies and stop punishing the classic motorist for having a enviromentally friendly vehicle.
Here endeth the rant
'parker
Classic and historic vehicles are normally driven with more care because the last thing you want is some chav (or chavette) writing off your pride and joy in their jazzed up Citreon Paxo which means a lower chance of ending up "recycled". classic/historic vehicles are more basic in construction (less materials used = lower carbon footprint) and also considerably smaller. There are also a lot of classic cars out there which have very low exhaust emmisions and where designed to run on low grade fuels which didn't have lead in it to prevent pre-ignition. My Reliant Kitten has a tiny 850cc engine does 60+ mpg and will take me and my family to the end of the world and back!
Don't just count CO2 like the government bulls**t says you have too, if you take a cat out of the pipe the CO2 drops dramatically CO and HC are higher but the CO2 is lower - its a catalytic converter not some magic tool for making chemicals disapear
Figures for emmisions are also based on set "drive cycles" not actual real life use. Even very large engined 4x4's can have a respectable exhaust emmision if they are spending most of there time on the dual carriageway or motorway at 56mph (the speed most economy figures are generated from), different story in a traffic jam or taking the kids to school. A 1.5t "small" car is also a similar tale, it takes a lot of energy to accelerate that mass, so all those so called safety features and other bells and whistles (which also create lots of pollution during manufacture) are making the cars even less efficient and therefore more polluting. The government is also trying to bring in a compulsory lighting law - ie if your driving your lights should be on. - to improve safety, I assume that they think that headlights magically shine through the "A" pillars
If you include everything that is illuminated when the lights are on (dash, side light, headlight tail light, radio, etc etc.) you can be consuming as much as 1.5kW (thats about 2hp.) all this from a government that wants you switch off you TV at the socket and not leave your computer in standby because of the vast amount of energy that uses. A TV on standby typically consumes 4-5W, so a 30 minute drive to work with your light on when not needed would consume about the same power to run you TV on standby for nearly a week. My conclusion is they've all gone mad or just don't understand even the most basic laws of physics. Stop listening to the goverment lies and defend your classics. Write to your MP and tell him to stop listening to his/her own lies and stop punishing the classic motorist for having a enviromentally friendly vehicle.
Here endeth the rant
'parker
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