Appreciating classic

[mgp1969]

Am currently based overseas and am thinking of buying a car next Spring/Summer to maintain my NCB. Car will be stored and get used 1-2 weeks a year tops (am a member of the Classic Car Club). Given that I'll be paying for storage, ideally I'd like a car that is at least going to maintain its value, but hopefully increase in value too (in case I decide not to come back and can recoup storage costs from sale). So have been thinking about cars i like that I think fit the bill, and am down to:

Porsche 911 (930 or earlier)
Porsche 928
Lotus Esprit
Lotus Excel (quite tempted by the cheap purchase price - they've got to go up at some stage, surely)
Aston Martin DBS
TVR V8S/Griffith/Chimaera
Lamborghini Espada

Budget 15-20k probably. Can't help thinking storage costs may end up as much as/more than value of NCB (looking at being here for 5 years), but like the idea of having a car to come back to.

Any thoughts on choice of car, storage (I have seen other post, which I will read on this), etc would be appreciated.

Cheers

[Touching Cloth]

From the list and the budget I would say the Espada stands the best chance of appreciating (well Octane seem to think so based on their recent piece) - however it also gives the most chance of BIG bills should something go wrong. My worry with those cars is you are not just going to need storage, you really need a company who will manage them, turning them over periodically etc - one to two weeks a year with nothing else will see them decline regardless of whether they are stored safely. If you are really just doing it for the NCB then surely you are far better with an old shed of a car that you can leave to rot and use the classic car club cars when you come back.

[mgp1969]

unfortunately, i think you're probably right (about the old shed of a car rather than a classic), but i quite fancy having something decent tucked away for my likely return

[williamp]

mgp1969 said:

unfortunately, i think you're probably right (about the old shed of a car rather than a classic), but i quite fancy having something decent tucked away for my likely return

well none of us can guess what future values will be like, and there are some unanswered questions- like when are 80s cars going to appreciate (944 Turbo, Lancia Integrale etc). As for the DBS, well no-one can understand why they are not worth more- but thats been the case for over 15 years. They have always been the chepaest form of aston entry. I think the car club is the best option, and acept that whatever youi do with cras, youi will loose money on them- even those which appreciate, they will still cost to maintain, store, tax etc. Unless you really speculate, or think long term, I'm not sure you can make money on old cars. But you can (possibly) ecoup your expenditure if you've bought well.

[plasticpig]

williamp said:

As for the DBS, well no-one can understand why they are not worth more- but thats been the case for over 15 years. They have always been the chepaest form of aston entry.

Possibly not for much longer. I recently saw a Virage for 19k and DB7 prices seem to be in free fall.

Edited by plasticpig on Monday 6th November 21:41

[thunderbelmont]

Aston prices went freefall when the Blue Oval took over, and started interfering.

I'd go for the Espada, as much as I love DBS-V8's.

If you go for a DBS, take an Aston expert with you. I know a very accomplished engineer who knows who's engine are good, and who's are likely to be problems (engine builder's name plates on the lump!). Paying them a half day's pay may save you a heap in the long run.

Porks are dirt cheap. And still seem to depreciate until there are only a few left, and there are zillions of 911's. Keep your eyes open for things like the 935, they do appear.

Other's to look for, DeTomaso Pantera's - fast lary and cheap running gear (Ford V8, ZF Box).

Rob.

[wadgebeast]

mgp1969 said:

Am currently based overseas and am thinking of buying a car next Spring/Summer to maintain my NCB. Car will be stored and get used 1-2 weeks a year tops (am a member of the Classic Car Club). Given that I'll be paying for storage, ideally I'd like a car that is at least going to maintain its value, but hopefully increase in value too (in case I decide not to come back and can recoup storage costs from sale). So have been thinking about cars i like that I think fit the bill, and am down to:

Porsche 911 (930 or earlier)
Porsche 928
Lotus Esprit
Lotus Excel (quite tempted by the cheap purchase price - they've got to go up at some stage, surely)
Aston Martin DBS
TVR V8S/Griffith/Chimaera
Lamborghini Espada

Budget 15-20k probably. Can't help thinking storage costs may end up as much as/more than value of NCB (looking at being here for 5 years), but like the idea of having a car to come back to.

Any thoughts on choice of car, storage (I have seen other post, which I will read on this), etc would be appreciated.

Cheers

Not many of the cars here are likely to appreciate, especially the porsche / tvr / lotus ones. The excel is on the turning point, but not likely to go up as much as you'd need. The dbs is one of the least desirable astons, so unlikely to appreciate much.

The lambo is a good prospect, but I would also look at things like fiat dinos, iso grifos and the de tomaso pantera too.

[williamp]

thunderbelmont said:

Aston prices went freefall when the Blue Oval took over, and started interfering.

I'd go for the Espada, as much as I love DBS-V8's.

If you go for a DBS, take an Aston expert with you. I know a very accomplished engineer who knows who's engine are good, and who's are likely to be problems (engine builder's name plates on the lump!). Paying them a half day's pay may save you a heap in the long run.

Porks are dirt cheap. And still seem to depreciate until there are only a few left, and there are zillions of 911's. Keep your eyes open for things like the 935, they do appear.

Other's to look for, DeTomaso Pantera's - fast lary and cheap running gear (Ford V8, ZF Box).

Rob.

That's a dangerously ignorant post. Dangerous because its bollox, and could cost someone a lot of money. First, Aston prices didnt go freefall when Ford took over- there is no indication that this made any difference at all. And in the early 80s, you could but a clean DB5 for about the same price as a Ford Escort. After Ford, a Modneo costs £16K and a DB5 £25K for a barn find, £60 for a usuable example and £200K for a top-notch example. Freefall? Nonsense. Ford have never interfeered as such. The truth is, making an Airbag fig for a manufacturer like Aston would have bankrupted them. Ford had the money to sort them. And to develop the car in the first place.

Also, your friend: shoot him. He knows nothing. The engine builders nameplate were only introduced in 1978. The DBS ended production in 72. Secondly, it doesnt make a difference who built the engine in the first place. How good is the service history? when were the cylinder liners checked? when was the head last off? Does he know about the small holes under the exhaust manifolds, which are often sealed with matchsticks to hide piston ring damage? Are the chains tensioned properly? What about the fuel injection system? You can't tell by looking at a non-existant name plate.

For the Aston, and the Espada, and every car like that: take an expert. Not some "accomplished engineer", but someone who actually knows what he/she is talking about. There are plenty of specialists who wil do this for a few £00. Get them to look over the car. Get them to make notes. Once you have read the notes, then decide. I have saved many thousends of pounds by spending a few hundreds with a specialist before I bought. And (touch wood) my Aston has been great so far.

[m.lovell]

My top tip would be (you can guess) a E9 BMW 3.0 CSL, will one day go the same way porsche 911 rs/rsl have in value.

I also think a 930 would be a good bet, original unmolested ones are getting increasing hard to find.

E-Types are also pretty resilient to depreciation as well.

I may not be the best person to ask.....
marc

[GravelBen]

911 may be the least likely to fall apart and dump big bills on you?

[900T-R]

I'd tend to go for the cars that are currently at/near the bottom of their depreciation curve (typically like 10 years old) - this way you get the best material value for money, a car that's still very useable/enjoyable in modern traffic, you'll normally be able to keep up with maintenance without having to resort to a full-on restoration - the cost of which will almost invariably exceed the value of the car for quite some time to go - and in the long run all of the apreciation will be yours, not lining the pockets of the former owner. Must say it's definitely a long-term scheme though, don't expect any serious return on investment until about 15-20 years down the line - so you need to get a car you'll really love to own and drive.

[SVX]

My suggestion is a modern classic that is appreciating at the moment - I'd go for a very late W124 Mercedes-Benz E320 Cabriolet, it can sit there all year, and if turned over occasionally will start on the button first time. Prices on low mileage late examples are going through the roof!

My 2p's worth.

[ettore]

M635CSI
911 3.2 Carrera
190E Cosworth
E30 M3

All pretty near the bottom of the depreciaiton curve and all can be be maintained reasonably cheaply.

[tog]

Surely a NCB entitlement certificate obtained when your current policy expires would be valid for a few years? Yuo would have to be pretty lucky in your choice for the appreciation to keep ahead of the cost of storage surely?

[Alpineandy]

NCBs don't carry over to most classic car policies and i doubt you'd want to use a standard policy without agreed value etc .

I think you're lining up for a hiding by trying to get a car as an investment. Normally you really should buy one because you want it and understand that it'll probabley save you alot of money over a new car. Having said that, if you garage a car for 50 weeks of the year you'll get problems whan you use it. How much is a lambo brake rebuild? I hear the an engine rebuild is over 10g. Pray the garage doesn't leak beacause rust could hurt you wallet even more.

And my advice is.... I don't know!

[mgp1969]

Thanks for the comments. The advice pretty much confirms my own view. NCB expires 2 years after the end of the last insurance policy. I'll probably go in for a shed of the week-type car to maintain that and leave the classic until i'm back in the UK.

[coco h]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I would have to say that I agree - my classics need driving every week and go on a longer run monthly. All sorts of things can go wrong if the car is not driven enough - we had the brakes bind on once - long story.
I presume you might be able to afford to keep the car somewhere where you can pay for the car to be run regularly when you are away.

[Evil_Dr_fish]

I have a Lotus Turbo Esprit (late Giugiaro shape) and in the 3 1/2 year since I have owned it I have seen prices go UP by about £2-3000... Early Stephens cars have taken SUCH a nosedive that you can now buy an SE for £10k! (whatever will happen to their values once the new one comes out is anyone's guess but my money is on the Wedgier G-Cars)

I personally think the Giugiaros will go up a little more but really not by much. There is a WORLD of difference between an £8k Esprit and a £15k Esprit and I cannot begin to make that clear enough!

It would not thank your for being left in a garage and used for just 1 or 2 weeks - most similar cars would develop idiosyncrasies - seals (etc) dry up and you spring leaks and other problems.

Going purely by reputation alone I would imagine a Porker would serve you best in that capacity.

What about the Lambo Jalpa - Those looks and that engine note - now that HAS to have its day to come surely? Just watch out for the bills

Ditto what has been said above about taking someone truly knowledgable about the specific MODEL - not even the brand - let alone 'classics' in general. I have heard so-called 'Lotus specialists' seriously bad mouthing the Esprit and talking utter cods-wallop!

[Hemibum]

SVX said:

My suggestion is a modern classic that is appreciating at the moment - I'd go for a very late W124 Mercedes-Benz E320 Cabriolet, it can sit there all year, and if turned over occasionally will start on the button first time. Prices on low mileage late examples are going through the roof!

My 2p's worth.

Yeah, especially if you can find an RHD example. Unburstable, top build quality, way to go.

Got a 200,000m 320 here in Nigeria, and a 320 with 140,000 in the uk (apart from my BMW) and those are great cars. Investment value should be solid, but enjoy it for what it offers.

[column]

I'd salute the E320 cabrio choice. Check out the prices that specialist dealers are asking for them such as Charles Ironside, Silver Arrows and Cheshire Classic Benz - £20-25,000 for a 10 year-old plus cabrio.
Prices will harden come the spring so buy now.
The W124 website has a handy buying guide but having spent over a year looking for mine, so I can tell you that the top tips are these:
1. E320, not E220. Sportline is well worth the marginal extra cost.
2. 5sp not 4sp; avoid the dual-tone paintwork or budget to have it sprayed.
3. Very colour sensitive; navy exterior and cream interior commands a premium, black exterior and cream interior is next; other dark exterior light interior is next. Avoid white, red, light blue, and rosewood cars (but they're cheaper to buy). Non-leather interior a no-go.
4. Service history is everything, get it inspected [DEKRA are excellent]
5. A/c good, climate better.
6. Standard W124 parts (shared with the coupe, saloon and estate) are easy to come by, but cabrio-specific parts, especially anything to do with the hood mechanism are wallet-frightening.

Let's know what you get!