Was F1 motor racing better in the 60s?
Discussion
Well, yes, in some ways, I think it was, & its what we didn't have that made it better.
We didn't have wings, & we didn't have safty cars.
Without wings we could follow so closely, that there are stories of a following car pushing the front car out of gear, around a corner. The Hewland gearbox had the selector come in from the back of the box, & the selector was the rearmost part of the car.
A gentle tap could push it out of 1St, 3Rd, or 5Th gears.
Without downforce you realy could follow that closely, with many more overtaking opportunities because of it.
This lead to much more cut, & thrust, racing
With no safty cars, the marshals had an extra flag. This was white, & it indicated that there was an ambulance, or a tow truck on the track. It was waved for a period after the vehicle had passed the flag piont.
I don't recall anyone hitting one of the vehicles, & we kept on racing, slowing a bit as you passed the thing.
The flags had the same "No Overtaking" rule as yellow flags, when displayed.
We didn't have wings, & we didn't have safty cars.
Without wings we could follow so closely, that there are stories of a following car pushing the front car out of gear, around a corner. The Hewland gearbox had the selector come in from the back of the box, & the selector was the rearmost part of the car.
A gentle tap could push it out of 1St, 3Rd, or 5Th gears.
Without downforce you realy could follow that closely, with many more overtaking opportunities because of it.
This lead to much more cut, & thrust, racing
With no safty cars, the marshals had an extra flag. This was white, & it indicated that there was an ambulance, or a tow truck on the track. It was waved for a period after the vehicle had passed the flag piont.
I don't recall anyone hitting one of the vehicles, & we kept on racing, slowing a bit as you passed the thing.
The flags had the same "No Overtaking" rule as yellow flags, when displayed.
Hasbeen said:
With no safty cars, the marshals had an extra flag. This was white, & it indicated that there was an ambulance, or a tow truck on the track. It was waved for a period after the vehicle had passed the flag point.
We still use these. In the States they are the last lap indicator. Here they are to indicate a slow moving (usually a safety vehicle, ambulance etc) on the circuit whilst competitors are still circulating.....
tombaron said:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc
I don't think its ever been much better than this!
My first action hero was Ronnie Petterson . . . Lauda's Rari . . . Rosberg . . . al the way up to Mansell, Prost's Porker Macca in the late 80s . . . excellent stuff. I remember this clip
r5gttgaz said:
Bring back the 1500cc turbos.
I don't think that would improve the racing.
Be good to see the drivers of today in those cars, stick shift etc
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound cynical about your sentiment. I was trying to say that I don't think the engines are what's wrong with F1 at the moment. I agree, it would be interesting to see today's drivers in those cars. I have a feeling that the best drivers will always adapt to get the most out of the equipment.
tombaron said:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc
I don't think its ever been much better than this!
I don't think you are wrong - that is a great clip.
I don't think flags can be effective in slowing cars down when recovery vehicles or marshalls are on track. For example, yellow flags mean slow down and double yellows mean slow down and be prepared to stop yet the cars seem to continue flat out. You could penalise drivers for not slowing but how could you objectively decide who is going too fast?
For that reason I think safety cars are a good thing. Not having them would probably result in more races being stopped which can't be good for the sport.
For that reason I think safety cars are a good thing. Not having them would probably result in more races being stopped which can't be good for the sport.
Yeah, I wish the sport was more exciting today. Why don't the drivers come up with sneaky little moves and tactics these days? Oh, no wait, they do. He's called Michael Shumacher and he gets slated for trying anything other than going round and round a track very fast and very efficiently. YAWN
I think one of the main things now is that F1 is a business and not a sport, it has gone the way of many sports losing the characters and household names that used to make it worth watching. Also with F1 (again other sports suffer too) is that the players, drivers, riders etc are corporate sponsorship robots not wanting to step out of line one bit incase they suffer the wrath of their team, what ever happened to going out for a few beers then waking up with a stunning bird in your hotel room then thinking 'shit I've got a world championship to win' Its just plain boring these days.
>> Edited by r5gttgaz on Monday 29th May 14:08
>> Edited by r5gttgaz on Monday 29th May 14:08
2 Points for the 'good old times' brigade:
1) In the Sixties, three to four drivers on average didn't make it to the end of the season, and that season comprised about half the number of events it does now. Obviously, I can't transpose myself 40 years back with al the cultural implications, but from a 21st century perspective, being a fan of a sport that is likely to kill its players sounds a bit morbid.
2) Don't know about the BBC, but over here in the Netherlands up until the early Nineties when commercial television took the honours, TV coverage of F1 (let alone other motorsport events) was absolutely sh*te wich did nothing for the public's association with the sport. Especially after 1985 when we didn't even get a GP here anymore.
1) In the Sixties, three to four drivers on average didn't make it to the end of the season, and that season comprised about half the number of events it does now. Obviously, I can't transpose myself 40 years back with al the cultural implications, but from a 21st century perspective, being a fan of a sport that is likely to kill its players sounds a bit morbid.
2) Don't know about the BBC, but over here in the Netherlands up until the early Nineties when commercial television took the honours, TV coverage of F1 (let alone other motorsport events) was absolutely sh*te wich did nothing for the public's association with the sport. Especially after 1985 when we didn't even get a GP here anymore.
tombaron said:
Yeah, I wish the sport was more exciting today. Why don't the drivers come up with sneaky little moves and tactics these days? Oh, no wait, they do. He's called Michael Shumacher and he gets slated for trying anything other than going round and round a track very fast and very efficiently. YAWN
Are you saying you'd like to see more cheating?
SamHH said:
Yeah, I wish the sport was more exciting today. Why don't the drivers come up with sneaky little moves and tactics these days? Oh, no wait, they do. He's called Michael Shumacher and he gets slated for trying anything other than going round and round a track very fast and very efficiently. YAWN
Are you saying you'd like to see more cheating?
Not cheating as such. Renault were probably more annoyed that they hadn't thought of it. It's not as if the drivers in the 'good old days' stuck to the rule book.
My dad was telling me when he went to Monaco as a guest of Team Lotus in 1986 when he was a Lotus Dealer. He went with the (infamous) Fred Bushell etc, he said Ayrton Senna was very very quiet when it came to racing and even around the paddock, always kept himself to himself, Johnny Dumfries would sit with people and chat with them, tell them the best place to stand around the track etc. They had grand stand seats in the swimming pool i think, it was Dumfries who told them about that bar where the cars thunder past a few feet away, it was an experience he'll never forget in a hurry. The last Grand Prix i went to was 1990 when Mansell won, the atmosphere was electric, not being a Mansell fan myself you couldn't help but join in.
Its a shame its not what it used to be and probably never will be. I think its safe to say things have moved on, we're after the next exciting sport. I think thats why races like Le Mans and GT racing is still consistantly popular.
Its a shame its not what it used to be and probably never will be. I think its safe to say things have moved on, we're after the next exciting sport. I think thats why races like Le Mans and GT racing is still consistantly popular.
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