Inlet over exhaust

[crankedup]

I hope you can help me to understand this engine valve configaration. Is it also known as sleeve valve? Also I was told that really I would be best to avoid this type of engine (i.o.e.)as they can be very troublesome?
Your veiws and opinions much appreciated as usual.

[Balmoral Green]

Inlet over exhaust is not sleeve valve, which is a different arrangement again. IOE is also referred to as an F head.

[Matthew C]

Balmoral Green said:

Inlet over exhaust is not sleeve valve, which is a different arrangement again. IOE is also referred to as an F head.

What engine is that? It appears to have valve seat inserts which suggests it might be aluminium block & head or a newer engine aimed at using unleaded, or both.

>> Edited by Matthew C on Tuesday 16th May 17:18

[HarryW]

Not sure its that modern, looks like an SU carb on the LH side to me.

[tvrgaas]

The Bentley MkVI used an F head (ioe), which work okay.
You just have the complications of a OHV and a side valve engine in one.


Sleeve values are a completely different issue.

www.daimler.co.uk/history/images/sleevevalve1.jpg

Note the sleeves A and B which move up and down with the piston in the bore.

[Balmoral Green]

tvrgaas said:

The Bentley MkVI used an F head

Yep, I had a MKVI for several years, I dont know what engine is in the pic I nicked off Google images, but it is very much like the MKVI engine. My '49 MKVI had 132bhp and would do 0-60 in 15 secs and cruise at around 90-100mph, not bad for what looked like a very pre-war car indeed. My ideal Bentley would be a MKVI with Mulliner coachwork, and the later 4.9 six cylinder B60 IOE engine with triple 1 3/4" SU's and a high ratio back axle.





>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Tuesday 16th May 17:51

[tvrgaas]

Balmoral Green said:

My ideal Bentley would be a MKVI with Mulliner coachwork.

Dad's is an early one with Hooper coachwork, Grandad had a Standard Steel in the 70's.

[fat richie]

Matthew C said:

Balmoral Green said: Inlet over exhaust is not sleeve valve, which is a different arrangement again. IOE is also referred to as an F head. What engine is that? It appears to have valve seat inserts which suggests it might be aluminium block & head or a newer engine aimed at using unleaded, or both. >> Edited by Matthew C on Tuesday 16th May 17:18

Looks like a Rover engine to me, as used in petrol Landies and Rover P4 series cars (and maybe non-V8 P6s too?).

[tvrgaas]

crankedup said:

Your views and opinions much appreciated as usual.

Assuming this is still the Humber, things I'd want to know for weddings are are the brakes upto it and I'd like to check the starter, I think Humber used dynostart at various times, so I'd like to know that was okay. The ioe would not worry me as such, just need to get both SV and OHV tools (for tappet adjustment and spring compressor), but I guess your other two are SV anyway.

Humber appears to be well regarded by their owners, but there do appear to be a myriad of models. I'd try to speak to some owners. www.thehumberregister.com/

A selection of Humbers at the IR Sunbeam Driving Tests in 2002.

[crankedup]

Many thanks for replies, most helpful as aways. It is the Humber that I am still considering, altho I would have to P/X most likely my Austin if I go for it. According to the Humber ad' it has 2 wheel brakes which are external contracting bands and also a transmission brake. Its such a pretty little car and difficult not to be tempted.

Any other snippets you may have much appreciated.

[TripleS]

Matthew C said:

Balmoral Green said: Inlet over exhaust is not sleeve valve, which is a different arrangement again. IOE is also referred to as an F head. What engine is that? It appears to have valve seat inserts which suggests it might be aluminium block & head or a newer engine aimed at using unleaded, or both.

I suspect that is a Rover engine, as used in the 60, 75 and 90 models of the 1950s. The head and block were most likely cast iron. I doubt if the appearance of valve seat inserts means that a light alloy block/head were used. Rovers were solid, high quality cars in those days - pity about what happened later...

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[williamp]

Interesting engine design- it looks like one shaft dfrives both the distributor and the oil pump. Dont think its a rover P4 engine- I dont rememebr the coil being that high up.

Good for servicing, though: carb, distributor and coil all very high up for good accessability.

[Pigeon]

TripleS said:

Matthew C said: Balmoral Green said: Inlet over exhaust is not sleeve valve, which is a different arrangement again. IOE is also referred to as an F head. What engine is that? It appears to have valve seat inserts which suggests it might be aluminium block & head or a newer engine aimed at using unleaded, or both. I suspect that is a Rover engine, as used in the 60, 75 and 90 models of the 1950s.

That was my first guess, but the Rover engine is rather different:



I think it's possibly a Rolls-Royce FB60 engine (Vanden Plas 4-litre R engine), looking at that distributor sticking out:

williamp said:

Interesting engine design- it looks like one shaft dfrives both the distributor and the oil pump.

Not uncommon - the Rover engine does that as well, as you can see. Volvo's pushrod fours did it, as did their OHC derivatives, which retained the original pushrod camshaft to provide the drive.

[AJAX50]

Most certainly an RR engine. All alloy, very light, used in VdP Princess and Healey 4000 prototype.

[Matthew C]

Thanks.

[crankedup]

So this looks to be a very good engine design, or did it start out life as a bit of a duffer and improved as the years rolled by. Trying to find out more in the Humber circles but as yet no replies.

[fourwheelsteer]

As with an awful lot of things in car design, what you do matters less than how you do it. Rover's IOE engines were highly regarded. By the standards of the time they were well made, the design allowed for big valves - promoting good breathing - and the combustion chamber is supposed to be a decent shape. Just to make sure I checked the performance of the 1949 Rover 75. The 2,103cc engine developed (according to Road & Track in the USA) 111 lbft of torque or 52.8 lbft/litre. For comparison the hemi-headed engine in the Bristol 401 gave 54.2 lbft/litre. Maximum power is less impressive, the Rover was only good for 75hp where the Bristol gave 85 but this may have been down to the priorities of the designers as much any fundamental aspect of the design.

[Klaxon]

While it does depend on the year somewhat, were you to part with your Austin 12/4 you would be trading 4 wheel drum brakes, which Austin started using in 1922, for 2 rear wheel drum brakes. Perhaps not such a good idea if you intend to use the vehicle for commercial purposes?

[crankedup]

Klaxon said:

While it does depend on the year somewhat, were you to part with your Austin 12/4 you would be trading 4 wheel drum brakes, which Austin started using in 1922, for 2 rear wheel drum brakes. Perhaps not such a good idea if you intend to use the vehicle for commercial purposes?

Good point! I think if I do change it will be the 'Bullnose' which will go, altho I have only just bought it.I kinda feel somewhat attached to my Austin now. In fact I have placed an ad for sale for it. My 'Bullnose' has 4 wheeled brakes as well.

Its true the Humbers brakes are inferior I suspect, it has rear wheel only external contracting bands + transmission brake apparently.

[tvrgaas]

Interesting selection of Austins under the hammer next week, www.cheffins.co.uk/catalogues/vintage/tractorssteam/2006/0607a-t/

Have a matching pair for bride and bride's maids.