Retro classic, help me understand
Discussion
What is the attraction of these, and cars of a similar ilk?
I understand replicas, from the prospective of being affordable, although personally not my cup of tea.
Recreations, I understand for use in competition, because of rarity or value.
Then we have the kit car type recreations, I understand less, surely the whole point, is the driving experience of the original.
Made to look classic/vintage, on these I fail to comprehend the attraction. Just looks like a bunch of parts cobbled together, to try and look old.
I can’t imagine the driving experience is anything special, it doesn’t look particularly old/interesting, from an engineering/design perspective nothing stands out!
I’ve always been of the opinion, each to their own and all that, I actually like some pretty odd stuff. These on the other hand, I just can’t see the attraction.
I understand replicas, from the prospective of being affordable, although personally not my cup of tea.
Recreations, I understand for use in competition, because of rarity or value.
Then we have the kit car type recreations, I understand less, surely the whole point, is the driving experience of the original.
Made to look classic/vintage, on these I fail to comprehend the attraction. Just looks like a bunch of parts cobbled together, to try and look old.
I can’t imagine the driving experience is anything special, it doesn’t look particularly old/interesting, from an engineering/design perspective nothing stands out!
I’ve always been of the opinion, each to their own and all that, I actually like some pretty odd stuff. These on the other hand, I just can’t see the attraction.
The grey car you show twice is a Beauford. My father built one decades ago, cortina running gear with a choice of engines (his has a 2.0 pinto).
It was built as a wedding car and as such was a great money earner, most bride and groom either didn't know it was a kit or didn't care.
The reason my father went with this option was reliability and spare parts. He had numerous genuine classics but was finding it difficult to make sure they were up and running on the day, the Beauford earned him as much money with less maintenance and stress.
It was built as a wedding car and as such was a great money earner, most bride and groom either didn't know it was a kit or didn't care.
The reason my father went with this option was reliability and spare parts. He had numerous genuine classics but was finding it difficult to make sure they were up and running on the day, the Beauford earned him as much money with less maintenance and stress.
With regards to kit cars, fakes (e.g. Toyota MR2 based 'Ferrari F355) or "modern" classics (e.g. Mitsuoka) I suspect in many cases it's because people want the look of a classic, but either/or can't afford or can't find an original or don't want the potential reliablility & maintenance issues of a classic - they want the driveability of a modern car.
t. Council estate wedding cars. Yes, agree the Beauford is an abomination.
The Panther Kallista in the final photo is blinged to death but underneath lies a good car.
Well screwed together and decent handling. 300 or so had the Cologne V6 so were properly quick. Midway between a Caterham & Morgan so makes sense to me.
Competition history in U.K. club racing and even on the Monte Carlo Rally (Noel Francis in a Lima).
The Panther Kallista in the final photo is blinged to death but underneath lies a good car.
Well screwed together and decent handling. 300 or so had the Cologne V6 so were properly quick. Midway between a Caterham & Morgan so makes sense to me.
Competition history in U.K. club racing and even on the Monte Carlo Rally (Noel Francis in a Lima).
Edited by moffspeed on Wednesday 2nd October 09:55
There are generally two main reasons for these cars:
1. Some people just like to be different. Not everyone wants to buy ANOTHER 2 door Ford Escort L and turn it into an RS replica so they can park it in an endless line of RS replicas at car shows. And from recent 'all mark' shows I've been to right off the top of my head you can substiture "Porsche 911" and "Jaguar E Type" in there, and doesn't take much thinking to come up with others you see at shows that your brain goes "Oh look, ANOTHER XXX".
2. Costs/usability. Sure it would be lovelly to own a 1930's 'blower' Bentley - but not only can't I afford the £4m purchase price I probably couldn't afford the maintenance costs or live with driving it any distance - I'm sure the brakes would have given me 3 near death experienced before I lost sight of my house! These cars can give you a degree of the experience (compared to, for example a brand new Toyota Prius) for a fraction of the cost.
And it's not like this is just some odd ball, independent creations. The BMW Mini/the '98-'11 and '25- VW Beetles/current Fiat 500 are all examples of mainstream manufacturers playing the same game (though with a lot more time/money/talent to throw at the process - not always with any greater success). And of course there are some 'old dogs' still in the game - Morgan and the various flavours of "Lotus Seven" for example. All of these play the "look like something old but with modern running gear/creature comforts/safety standards" game.
1. Some people just like to be different. Not everyone wants to buy ANOTHER 2 door Ford Escort L and turn it into an RS replica so they can park it in an endless line of RS replicas at car shows. And from recent 'all mark' shows I've been to right off the top of my head you can substiture "Porsche 911" and "Jaguar E Type" in there, and doesn't take much thinking to come up with others you see at shows that your brain goes "Oh look, ANOTHER XXX".
2. Costs/usability. Sure it would be lovelly to own a 1930's 'blower' Bentley - but not only can't I afford the £4m purchase price I probably couldn't afford the maintenance costs or live with driving it any distance - I'm sure the brakes would have given me 3 near death experienced before I lost sight of my house! These cars can give you a degree of the experience (compared to, for example a brand new Toyota Prius) for a fraction of the cost.
And it's not like this is just some odd ball, independent creations. The BMW Mini/the '98-'11 and '25- VW Beetles/current Fiat 500 are all examples of mainstream manufacturers playing the same game (though with a lot more time/money/talent to throw at the process - not always with any greater success). And of course there are some 'old dogs' still in the game - Morgan and the various flavours of "Lotus Seven" for example. All of these play the "look like something old but with modern running gear/creature comforts/safety standards" game.
moffspeed said:
Yes, agree the Beauford is an abomination.
If you squint you can actually see what the designer was trying to do, and it's actually quite cleaver - they just didn't quite hit the target.The bodywork of early cars were generally done by dedicated coach builders, who were often ex-boat builders and part of the reason a lot of those cars had rounded tubs. The rear of the BMW Mini is actually very similar to that so using a Mini tub works to a degree. Look at the rear quater of the first photo and (if you ignore the hure rear light 'horn') the Beauford actually pulls that look off quite well. Swap to the front end and everything ahead of the windshield generally works too.
It's in the middle where things go wrong. Early cars had flat, quite vertical windscreens so your brain just flags the raked, curved Mini screen as 'wrong'. Then the doors... You MIGHT get away with them if you flattened them out and changed the handles to something more vintage - and nobody had stolen a Yorkshire giant's flat cap and stuck it on top making you eye linger in that area and start question the rest of the design around it.
Close, but no cigar.
I agree with the OP on the subject of Beaufords (other pastiches are available) - cynical builds for those wanting a "vintage look" at their wedding. There are enough actual vintage cars to go around, so perhaps these are aimed more at the businesses hiring them ( as described by Scrump) than the happy couples.
The two replicas shown are reasonable-looking ones catering for the individual wanting to own something special but without the wherewithal to own the real thing, likely to be in the millions. I have no problem with these, provided they're not trying to pass themselves off as the real thing.
Kit cars, historically, were there to recycle the chassis and / or running gear from something crashed or otherwise beyond economic repair: again, I have no problem with them as long as they are viewed for what they are. Similarly the Panther - I drove a 2.8 once and it was actually rather fun to drive and well put together.
The two replicas shown are reasonable-looking ones catering for the individual wanting to own something special but without the wherewithal to own the real thing, likely to be in the millions. I have no problem with these, provided they're not trying to pass themselves off as the real thing.
Kit cars, historically, were there to recycle the chassis and / or running gear from something crashed or otherwise beyond economic repair: again, I have no problem with them as long as they are viewed for what they are. Similarly the Panther - I drove a 2.8 once and it was actually rather fun to drive and well put together.
moffspeed said:
Back in the 70’s John Britten offered you the opportunity to revitalise your rusty old Spridget.
The Arkley SS. I still can’t quite make my mind up ..
I remember these. They would probably have worked but for the need to retain the standard Spridget's centre section, which was too wide to put the big, flared wings in front of.The Arkley SS. I still can’t quite make my mind up ..
miniman said:
I mean, where to start?
Grotesque wire wheels
Terrible whitewalls
Unfilled arches
Misplaced modern lights
Incorrect black & silver plates
Peashooter exhaust
Ridiculous half hood thing which is literally the wrong half
Nasty, nasty thing.
Edited by miniman on Wednesday 2nd October 10:31
some bloke said:
miniman said:
I always thought these were classic cars for people that don't understand or know about classic cars - semi-vintage looking but reliable which is what a wedding car company needs. Original post could roughly be summed up as, "not every car made is for me, why is that?"
All I can answer is that it has been nothing but a chore owning a couple of N.G.s, a Mk1 Lima, a Vincent and other derided rubbish... driving all over the country, in all weathers having fun, making memories, but knowing all along that "real" enthusiasts were looking down on me from inside their Kias and Teslas... I hang my head in shame and promise not to blight Britain's roads again...
Tongue back out of cheek, for a moment. Why? Fun. Lots of cheap, reliable "B Series" or Triumph powered fun, m.o.t. exempt. Free "tax". Decent economy. Well built fibreglass bodies. Plentiful spares. Lightweight rear wheel drive fun. I have hundreds of pic's of my old stuff splashing through winter puddles, fording small rivers, exploring the back lanes of Snowdonia, touring the Lakes with an escort of hot rods and American muscle, bimbling up farm tracks in the Highlands with the camping gear bungeed on the rack, attending drag races, back lane blasting to a country pub... Great memories. Swap them for trophies for most ubiquitous German Classic? No thank you.
All I can answer is that it has been nothing but a chore owning a couple of N.G.s, a Mk1 Lima, a Vincent and other derided rubbish... driving all over the country, in all weathers having fun, making memories, but knowing all along that "real" enthusiasts were looking down on me from inside their Kias and Teslas... I hang my head in shame and promise not to blight Britain's roads again...
Tongue back out of cheek, for a moment. Why? Fun. Lots of cheap, reliable "B Series" or Triumph powered fun, m.o.t. exempt. Free "tax". Decent economy. Well built fibreglass bodies. Plentiful spares. Lightweight rear wheel drive fun. I have hundreds of pic's of my old stuff splashing through winter puddles, fording small rivers, exploring the back lanes of Snowdonia, touring the Lakes with an escort of hot rods and American muscle, bimbling up farm tracks in the Highlands with the camping gear bungeed on the rack, attending drag races, back lane blasting to a country pub... Great memories. Swap them for trophies for most ubiquitous German Classic? No thank you.
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