Fuel injection for classics
Discussion
OK, part of the charm of a classic is re learning what a choke is for, but has anyone got practical experience of this place, please?
https://www.classicfuelinjection.co.uk/mg-classic-...
https://www.classicfuelinjection.co.uk/mg-classic-...
I've seen them advertising in the back of magazines and looked on the website. It looks like a simple adaptation, could be neater, but that would probably cost a lot more. I was looking at the MGB installation, it is a lot cheaper than the system offered by Moss. I think this system was used on an episode of Car SOS and fitted to a Triumph Herald. I'd also be interested in any real life and longevity experience.
I noted that retrojim, I think, in his Readers Wives thread is making up a system for his Cortina GT, that's what got me looking, but I do not have the fabrication skillz needed, so a box of bits and an idiots guide may work better for me!
I was just looking to see if any of us lot had bought, and if so, is the kit any good?
I was just looking to see if any of us lot had bought, and if so, is the kit any good?
Of course Triumph was the first to fit fuel injection to a production car, in the TR6 and T2500 saloon. They used the Lucas Pi system, totally mechanical and descended from systems for WW2 fighters and the Le Mans D-Type Jaguars. It was also used by other manufacturers such as Maserati, and for their racing Capris, Ford. But Triumph, ever short of cash, skimped on the training of dealers' workshop staff, and being more familiar with carburettors the mechanics, confused by the multiple adjustments on the Pi metering unit, lost their way and lost any reliability reputation for the kit.
It was overtaken by the introduction of the K-Jetronic system a few years later. far less sophisticated than Pi and cheap as chips, so Lucas lost the business.
But in fact Pi is reliable and effective, it's only fault being that it goes lean at wide open throttle, so needs to be set rich and so doesn't give good fuel consumption. The parts are available second hand, and a few experts can set up your metering unit so that unlike a carburettor it never needs adjusting!
John
It was overtaken by the introduction of the K-Jetronic system a few years later. far less sophisticated than Pi and cheap as chips, so Lucas lost the business.
But in fact Pi is reliable and effective, it's only fault being that it goes lean at wide open throttle, so needs to be set rich and so doesn't give good fuel consumption. The parts are available second hand, and a few experts can set up your metering unit so that unlike a carburettor it never needs adjusting!
John
A good mate is running an FITech system on his 318 V8 van. It's a good job that he is "techy" and enjoys problem solving (his sixty year old van has power brakes and steering, reversing cameras and central locking among other upgrades), as it was far from an easy "out of the box" install. Now that he has sorted all the issues, he is well happy with it and says it's more tractable, starts better, better behaved and uses less fuel than the previous carb' set up. It has probably taken a year to get it to this stage tho'. Wasn't cheap and, to my mind, you'd need to be putting on a lot of miles to justify it.
tapkaJohnD said:
Of course Triumph was the first to fit fuel injection to a production car, in the TR6 and T2500 saloon.
I assume you meant to write, first on a UK production car.... 
Mercedes and Chevrolet had been fitting fuel injection to some of their production cars in the 1950's, a decade before Triumph did it.
spoodler said:
A good mate is running an FITech system on his 318 V8 van. It's a good job that he is "techy" and enjoys problem solving (his sixty year old van has power brakes and steering, reversing cameras and central locking among other upgrades), as it was far from an easy "out of the box" install. Now that he has sorted all the issues, he is well happy with it and says it's more tractable, starts better, better behaved and uses less fuel than the previous carb' set up. It has probably taken a year to get it to this stage tho'. Wasn't cheap and, to my mind, you'd need to be putting on a lot of miles to justify it.
Seen similar problems on US forum's regarding the FITech, and support is closer to hand over there, so you really need to be very DIY techy to fit in the UK.The support for the 8-stack injection systems seem to be easier in the UK as Jenvey and the like does them here, but not great if you have limited hood clearance issues.
aeropilot said:
spoodler said:
A good mate is running an FITech system on his 318 V8 van. It's a good job that he is "techy" and enjoys problem solving (his sixty year old van has power brakes and steering, reversing cameras and central locking among other upgrades), as it was far from an easy "out of the box" install. Now that he has sorted all the issues, he is well happy with it and says it's more tractable, starts better, better behaved and uses less fuel than the previous carb' set up. It has probably taken a year to get it to this stage tho'. Wasn't cheap and, to my mind, you'd need to be putting on a lot of miles to justify it.
Seen similar problems on US forum's regarding the FITech, and support is closer to hand over there, so you really need to be very DIY techy to fit in the UK.The support for the 8-stack injection systems seem to be easier in the UK as Jenvey and the like does them here, but not great if you have limited hood clearance issues.
Harry Flashman said:
Keeping an eye as I've been looking at the FiTech and Holley systems for my '69 Camaro. Pricey and replaces a generally reliable carb/MSD electronic ignition setup (no choke) with various electronics...
Holley Sniper 2 is a doddle to fit though and works well. I just fitted it to a 65 mustang fastback. The self tuning works very well so no rolling road session needed which does help the overall cost. For the OP, what mg do you have and what are you aiming to improve?
Edited by shirt on Wednesday 18th September 16:27
Cledus Snow said:
aeropilot said:
spoodler said:
A good mate is running an FITech system on his 318 V8 van. It's a good job that he is "techy" and enjoys problem solving (his sixty year old van has power brakes and steering, reversing cameras and central locking among other upgrades), as it was far from an easy "out of the box" install. Now that he has sorted all the issues, he is well happy with it and says it's more tractable, starts better, better behaved and uses less fuel than the previous carb' set up. It has probably taken a year to get it to this stage tho'. Wasn't cheap and, to my mind, you'd need to be putting on a lot of miles to justify it.
Seen similar problems on US forum's regarding the FITech, and support is closer to hand over there, so you really need to be very DIY techy to fit in the UK.The support for the 8-stack injection systems seem to be easier in the UK as Jenvey and the like does them here, but not great if you have limited hood clearance issues.
I don't have hood clearance issues, so if higher ethanol content fuel and other factors start to mean its harder to run a 4-bbl carb, in the short term, I'll consider a UK supplied 8-stack FI system for mine, but at my age, I'm hoping that sort of expense won't be on the horizon for the years I've got left.
shirt said:
For the OP, what mg do you have and what are you aiming to improve?
Any excuse for a photo!
Looking to improve cold start/cold running, and perhaps gain a little more grunt through the range.
I ran E30 BMW's through their 'banger' period, and as long as the ECU was kept reasonably dry they could be made very reliable, and the 6 cylinder engines were very enjoyable!
ferret50 said:
shirt said:
For the OP, what mg do you have and what are you aiming to improve?
Any excuse for a photo!Looking to improve cold start/cold running, and perhaps gain a little more grunt through the range.
I'd rather go with Jenvey and the backup than some unknown system.
I converted my car from a single Stromberg carb and points to throttle bodies, turbo and Megasquirt engine management a few years back. I did a lot of fabrication myself, but you can go and buy a kit of parts if you're willing to spend enough. You can even get throttle bodies that look like DCOE carbs nowadays.
I'd expect that you'll need some level of mechanical and wiring skill unless you're going to pay someone to fit everything.
In terms of reliability mine has been perfect, and it starts immediately and without coaxing in all conditions. I have over 100% more power and better fuel economy aswell (not at the same time!).
I'd expect that you'll need some level of mechanical and wiring skill unless you're going to pay someone to fit everything.
In terms of reliability mine has been perfect, and it starts immediately and without coaxing in all conditions. I have over 100% more power and better fuel economy aswell (not at the same time!).
Edited by witko999 on Wednesday 18th September 18:07
spoodler said:
Now that he has sorted all the issues, he is well happy with it and says it's more tractable, starts better, better behaved and uses less fuel than the previous carb' set up.
These are the reasons that I've considered upgrading at least one of mine to mappable ignition and fuel injection, but it has remained no more than a thought for now. Vauxhall, back in the 1970s, were testing mechanical fuel injection and reported that it transformed the slant-four engine, so I'd like to think that things would be even better now. But having read an article in Practical Performance Car it might be that just a modern ignition system would be enough. I wonder whether I'd put more miles on the car if I could make it nicer to drive, or whether I'd be concerned that I'm introducing extra potential points of failure.I have done a number of conversions after getting problems with carbs, altitude, fuel quality and reliability.
I have used Emerald ECUs with Jenvy throttle bodies.
The first one I did was 6 years ago, took me a weekend and was utterly reliable until I sold the car recently.
I had no previous experience beforehand, Emerald were excellent in there support. Now I would say it is easy having done a few! Even the wiring, as Emerald sell you the loom which you finish off with comprehensive instructions.
Power, smoothness and reliability was perfect in all cases and well worth the effort if you actually like to drive your cars.
Photos attached of some of my installations.
I am just considering a rhd Citroen DS23 on Tbis and a lhd Renault 4 GTL, why not?
I have used Emerald ECUs with Jenvy throttle bodies.
The first one I did was 6 years ago, took me a weekend and was utterly reliable until I sold the car recently.
I had no previous experience beforehand, Emerald were excellent in there support. Now I would say it is easy having done a few! Even the wiring, as Emerald sell you the loom which you finish off with comprehensive instructions.
Power, smoothness and reliability was perfect in all cases and well worth the effort if you actually like to drive your cars.
Photos attached of some of my installations.
I am just considering a rhd Citroen DS23 on Tbis and a lhd Renault 4 GTL, why not?
Had an Essex V6 on Jenveys and an Emerald ECU. Started first time, ran beautifully after the first couple of minutes of warming up but being an old fogy (carbs and dizzy) I was always worried that at some point it would go wrong and I'd not have the faintest idea about it. Think it was set up on a RR before I bought it.
shirt said:
Harry Flashman said:
Keeping an eye as I've been looking at the FiTech and Holley systems for my '69 Camaro. Pricey and replaces a generally reliable carb/MSD electronic ignition setup (no choke) with various electronics...
Holley Sniper 2 is a doddle to fit though and works well. I just fitted it to a 65 mustang fastback. The self tuning works very well so no rolling road session needed which does help the overall cost. For the OP, what mg do you have and what are you aiming to improve?
Edited by shirt on Wednesday 18th September 16:27
Made a huge difference all round. Still can’t quite get used to starting it from cold and only turning the key. Fires straight up. No black soot
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