Project Car for 16 Year Old?
Discussion
All, my 16 year old son has recently shown signs of being interested in a project car. He is doing engineering at school (and wants to study it at university). He is part of the school equivalent of Formula Student, and has been working on (and driven) their electrically powered team car for three years or so. He has helped me recently with my two old cars doing minor jobs. As a result of his previous BTEC engineering courses, and making parts to restore an old RC car last year, he can also safely use hand tools and machine tools (lathe, milling machine) to what I'd describe as "beginner" levels.
Having previously totally rebuilt two classic cars, and maintaining my 20 year old daily driver, I have been out of the "car scene" for many years. Apart from welding gear, I have a well equipped garage.
Any ideas for a cheap, but reasonably motivating old car, with good spares availability, that would suit a youngster to fiddle about with? It would be good to get a non-runner on the road again for when he passes his test, but nothing so bad that there'd be no end in sight.
Is something like a late 80's or 90's Fiesta (or similar) an option? In my naive mind, I've got a vision of one of those very early boxy XR2's, but I guess they're pretty expensive now.
Thanks.
Having previously totally rebuilt two classic cars, and maintaining my 20 year old daily driver, I have been out of the "car scene" for many years. Apart from welding gear, I have a well equipped garage.
Any ideas for a cheap, but reasonably motivating old car, with good spares availability, that would suit a youngster to fiddle about with? It would be good to get a non-runner on the road again for when he passes his test, but nothing so bad that there'd be no end in sight.
Is something like a late 80's or 90's Fiesta (or similar) an option? In my naive mind, I've got a vision of one of those very early boxy XR2's, but I guess they're pretty expensive now.
Thanks.
My suggestion would be to look into how much various options will cost to insure once your child has passed their test. The last thing you want is to pour hours of labour and hundreds of pounds into something only to find out that you can't drive it at the end because the insurance costs are ridiculous. One person I know, his son bought my fathers old Land Rover Discovery, the car cost him £700 as it is a bit of a project. When the lad got quotes online he was getting offers of £3k and up, this was with 5 years NCB as well so not a new driver.
As for which car, it depends what floats their boat. I would probably suggest something like an old Midget or Spitfire as they are simple to work on and there is great parts availability, if you want newer then how about the ever mentioned MX5?
As for which car, it depends what floats their boat. I would probably suggest something like an old Midget or Spitfire as they are simple to work on and there is great parts availability, if you want newer then how about the ever mentioned MX5?
I'm approaching a similar position with my eldest, who's just turned 16 and likes "the old stuff".
He has no idea mechanically, however. Considerations for me are:
- while it's great to start with something interesting, it's probably more valuable to get a year or so under your belt in a boring, reliable car that's easily fixed and cheaply (relative term...) insured. A year's NCD is worth its weight in gold.
- while it won't affect everyone, I have a feeling my son may be subject to ridicule from his classmates if he has something too quirky.
- some worry about the safety of youngsters in older cars (I've never really worried about it, but I know some do).
A friend has a 65 plate Corsa that she's owned from new. It has 45K on the clock with a full main dealer history. She wants to change it this year, so our current thinking is to buy it from her for whatever the dealer / WBAC offers and let him run that for a year or two before looking for anything more ambitious.
I guess a lot depends on the mentality of your children: mine son is a sensible, level-headed type who can see the logic of the above. When I was a kid, my view (and possibly that of the OP's 16 year old) was very much more adventurous.
He has no idea mechanically, however. Considerations for me are:
- while it's great to start with something interesting, it's probably more valuable to get a year or so under your belt in a boring, reliable car that's easily fixed and cheaply (relative term...) insured. A year's NCD is worth its weight in gold.
- while it won't affect everyone, I have a feeling my son may be subject to ridicule from his classmates if he has something too quirky.
- some worry about the safety of youngsters in older cars (I've never really worried about it, but I know some do).
A friend has a 65 plate Corsa that she's owned from new. It has 45K on the clock with a full main dealer history. She wants to change it this year, so our current thinking is to buy it from her for whatever the dealer / WBAC offers and let him run that for a year or two before looking for anything more ambitious.
I guess a lot depends on the mentality of your children: mine son is a sensible, level-headed type who can see the logic of the above. When I was a kid, my view (and possibly that of the OP's 16 year old) was very much more adventurous.
My first car in 1969.....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Mine was black, if your lad goes down this route, please, speedwell blue, almond green, anything but black!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Mine was black, if your lad goes down this route, please, speedwell blue, almond green, anything but black!
Yertis said:
Having had to maintain my daughter's '90s Fiesta for a while I'd avoid like the plague – they are crap, and getting parts isn't as easy as you'd think.
Spitfire would get my vote. I can't imagine any car is easier to work on, or to get parts for.
Trouble is, new parts for old British cars now seem to be cheap Chinese junk. Spitfire would get my vote. I can't imagine any car is easier to work on, or to get parts for.
At least with an eighties/nineties German car companies like Febi supply tons of good OE spec stuff.
I-am-the-reverend said:
An E36 Compact.
Cool with the kids, solidly built, good parts availability, simple to work on and vaguely insurable - and going up in value. Avoid the idiot owned bangers/drift rubbish and £1500 or less should secure a saveable car.
Similarly, BMW Z3 or Z4? Surely the lower powered ones wouldn't be too bad to insure (especially the Z3)Cool with the kids, solidly built, good parts availability, simple to work on and vaguely insurable - and going up in value. Avoid the idiot owned bangers/drift rubbish and £1500 or less should secure a saveable car.
StuTheGrouch said:
I-am-the-reverend said:
An E36 Compact.
Cool with the kids, solidly built, good parts availability, simple to work on and vaguely insurable - and going up in value. Avoid the idiot owned bangers/drift rubbish and £1500 or less should secure a saveable car.
Similarly, BMW Z3 or Z4? Surely the lower powered ones wouldn't be too bad to insure (especially the Z3)Cool with the kids, solidly built, good parts availability, simple to work on and vaguely insurable - and going up in value. Avoid the idiot owned bangers/drift rubbish and £1500 or less should secure a saveable car.
I-am-the-reverend said:
Trouble is, new parts for old British cars now seem to be cheap Chinese junk.
There is a lot of junk out there it's true, you do have to be careful you're buying decent bits. OTOH if it's just to learning how it all comes apart and goes back together again maybe that doesn't matter? Also, learning that to buy cheap is to buy twice is also a valuable lesson. And refurbishing an original part is often better than buying a cheapo new shiny one.My own experience with German parts of the '80s is not great – quite often there isn't even a cheap chinesium knock-off to fall back on.
Which reminds me I need to get hold of a voltage stabiliser, again...
I think it's an incredibly hard thing to do. Old doer-uppers always take loads more work than you think so it's really hard to get a car with the right level of work needed that they have the determination to finish and can insure when it's done. At 16 they'll need it to be done at 17 to drive it. Then you'll realise that you really don't want them to be driving about in an unreliable old banger with no safety features!
Sorry to be neg! Done it with a 106 Rallye which I loved driving but was unreliable as hell. Sold it quite quickly.
Sorry to be neg! Done it with a 106 Rallye which I loved driving but was unreliable as hell. Sold it quite quickly.
Hi
How about not doing a road car?
I think, having done this myself and wished I'd been able or had the support to do it when I was younger, that properly building a car as a project at his age would be both a brilliant thing to do and just maybe forge a future direction too.
I'd suggest looking for a very tatty, properly second hand, but registered kit car of the locaterfield type.. strip it down to a bare frame (but save the registration docs!) and start again, do a full build, every nut bolt and washer, engine, bodywork the full 9 yards.. when it's built you and he can track it and you'll be able to drive it on the road..
OR
Go full out racing car.. small single seater (or the above but a full on track only build) again, go looking for one that's a bit tatty, needs a good going over and do it, once done you could look at speed events - two can share the car on the day, lots of Lads & Dads doing just that..
If you have the knowledge to tackle a classic road car (or don't like dealing with rust!) the above is no more of a challenge, probably less so, but the results are a bit different!
How about not doing a road car?
I think, having done this myself and wished I'd been able or had the support to do it when I was younger, that properly building a car as a project at his age would be both a brilliant thing to do and just maybe forge a future direction too.
I'd suggest looking for a very tatty, properly second hand, but registered kit car of the locaterfield type.. strip it down to a bare frame (but save the registration docs!) and start again, do a full build, every nut bolt and washer, engine, bodywork the full 9 yards.. when it's built you and he can track it and you'll be able to drive it on the road..
OR
Go full out racing car.. small single seater (or the above but a full on track only build) again, go looking for one that's a bit tatty, needs a good going over and do it, once done you could look at speed events - two can share the car on the day, lots of Lads & Dads doing just that..
If you have the knowledge to tackle a classic road car (or don't like dealing with rust!) the above is no more of a challenge, probably less so, but the results are a bit different!
I'd suggest any of the following:
Morris Minor
Austin A35/40
Citroen Dyane
Renault 4
Triumph Herald
Ratty but drivable examples can be bought for £3k upwards. Spares availability for all are generally very good and nothing is absurdly expensive. Your son should be able to insure any of them for a vaguely sensible sum. Of course it depends what he aspires too - all of the above have very limited performance and/or are a bit 'Uncle Arthur' and in the case of the French cars quite Bohemian, albeit that's part of their charm.
If it was me, I'd have the Dyane - the first time he rocks up to school/college in it, he'll be the talk of the town
Morris Minor
Austin A35/40
Citroen Dyane
Renault 4
Triumph Herald
Ratty but drivable examples can be bought for £3k upwards. Spares availability for all are generally very good and nothing is absurdly expensive. Your son should be able to insure any of them for a vaguely sensible sum. Of course it depends what he aspires too - all of the above have very limited performance and/or are a bit 'Uncle Arthur' and in the case of the French cars quite Bohemian, albeit that's part of their charm.
If it was me, I'd have the Dyane - the first time he rocks up to school/college in it, he'll be the talk of the town
Thanks for all the ideas folks.
I’m coming to the conclusion that this is probably a bad idea, mainly considering the combination of a new driver and the crashworthyness of an older car.
When I was his age, I was rebuilding lawnmowers, and a couple of years later, my Dad’s ‘62 MGB. That was at a time when even new cars weren’t exactly robust in a crash (daily driver was a Metro!).
I like one of the suggestions of a track car better, but then that’s needs a trailer.
I don’t know, it would be great to build something significant and mobile, like a car, but not sure what.
I’m coming to the conclusion that this is probably a bad idea, mainly considering the combination of a new driver and the crashworthyness of an older car.
When I was his age, I was rebuilding lawnmowers, and a couple of years later, my Dad’s ‘62 MGB. That was at a time when even new cars weren’t exactly robust in a crash (daily driver was a Metro!).
I like one of the suggestions of a track car better, but then that’s needs a trailer.
I don’t know, it would be great to build something significant and mobile, like a car, but not sure what.
dr_gn said:
I like one of the suggestions of a track car better, but then that’s needs a trailer.
I don’t know, it would be great to build something significant and mobile, like a car, but not sure what.
One of my colleagues does lawnmower racing and for less than £3k you can build something that's pretty competitive and takes up the fraction of space a car does. Cutting deck has to be removed and you can play with gearing to suit the track. I don’t know, it would be great to build something significant and mobile, like a car, but not sure what.
Looks amazing, cheap fun!
(And alarmingly fast for a lawnmower!)
Edited by Ambleton on Tuesday 16th January 22:10
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