Italian 2 Litre tax-break specials
Discussion
I’m looking at replacing my old Merc in Portugal and am working my way through the (current) labyrinthine road tax regulations as a means of estimating running costs on various potential cars.
Somehow I got diverted to reading about the car purchase tax rules that applied in Italy & Portugal during the 70/80’s. So if you bought a car with an engine of less than 2000cc you paid 19% VAT equivalent. Over 2 Litres it was 38% thank you very much.
So we ended up with a Ferrari 308 bored down to become the 208GTS, a less than impressive 155 BHP and topping out at just over 130mph. Similarly a 2 Litre Maserati Merak with a similar power output. The regulations didn’t specify normal or forced induction so the 208 GTB arrived very quickly - the first turbo’d Ferrari I believe. On the normally aspirated front BMW came up with the E30 320is which was basically a de-arched M3 stroked down to 2 L.
Even TVR got in on the act with a small capacity version of the S series - a 2 Litre Essex V6 which, with a supercharger bolted on, allegedly gave 230 BHP.
ETA - thanks soxboy, brain fade and inexcusable as an ex S3C owner - yes it was the miniaturised Rover V8 not Essex V6.
Somehow I got diverted to reading about the car purchase tax rules that applied in Italy & Portugal during the 70/80’s. So if you bought a car with an engine of less than 2000cc you paid 19% VAT equivalent. Over 2 Litres it was 38% thank you very much.
So we ended up with a Ferrari 308 bored down to become the 208GTS, a less than impressive 155 BHP and topping out at just over 130mph. Similarly a 2 Litre Maserati Merak with a similar power output. The regulations didn’t specify normal or forced induction so the 208 GTB arrived very quickly - the first turbo’d Ferrari I believe. On the normally aspirated front BMW came up with the E30 320is which was basically a de-arched M3 stroked down to 2 L.
Even TVR got in on the act with a small capacity version of the S series - a 2 Litre Essex V6 which, with a supercharger bolted on, allegedly gave 230 BHP.
ETA - thanks soxboy, brain fade and inexcusable as an ex S3C owner - yes it was the miniaturised Rover V8 not Essex V6.
Edited by moffspeed on Saturday 6th January 14:04
Re the TVR S, in the latest Boring Car Trivia vol 4 it refers to the Italian-market S having a Rover V8 destroked from 3.5 litres to 2 litres and a supercharger bolted on, with a taller bonnet to fit it. For all that effort, they sold 7.
Other specials:
Alfa GTV v6 2.0
Lamborghini Urraco 2.0
Maserati Merak 2.0
Maserati Ghibli Cup v6 2.0
Land Rover Discovery 2.0 mk1
Lotus Esprit turbo 2.0
Other specials:
Alfa GTV v6 2.0
Lamborghini Urraco 2.0
Maserati Merak 2.0
Maserati Ghibli Cup v6 2.0
Land Rover Discovery 2.0 mk1
Lotus Esprit turbo 2.0
Edited by soxboy on Saturday 6th January 13:19
moffspeed said:
On the normally aspirated front BMW came up with the E30 320is which was basically a de-arched M3 stroked down to 2 L.
Was it? Doesn't have the M3 body, engine, interior, brakes. I think the nickname "Italian M3" meant this was the closest to a M3 they were going to get, rathern than being an Italian market M3.Edited by moffspeed on Saturday 6th January 14:04
This sleeving/stroking down for reduced import duties happens a lot in the other direction with smaller engines getting the blower treatment: Merc Kompresor and Mini Cooper 1.6 supercharged a couple that were great to drive. The late model 2.0 Lotus Esprit GT3 chargecooler turbo considered one of the best variants by many.
Supercharging actually increases the volumetric efficiency by up to 30%, so that 'below 2 litre' duty threshold seems quite illogical.
If your import tax duty comes from the purchase invoice, the lower the number the better here...sometimes 'admin errors' occur when one vehicle purchased but with two separate payments - a deposit and balance, but only one is presented for the import duty
Supercharging actually increases the volumetric efficiency by up to 30%, so that 'below 2 litre' duty threshold seems quite illogical.
If your import tax duty comes from the purchase invoice, the lower the number the better here...sometimes 'admin errors' occur when one vehicle purchased but with two separate payments - a deposit and balance, but only one is presented for the import duty
Edited by Tyrell Corp on Sunday 7th January 13:49
Risonax said:
Was it? Doesn't have the M3 body, engine, interior, brakes. I think the nickname "Italian M3" meant this was the closest to a M3 they were going to get, rathern than being an Italian market M3.
The 320is didn't, as you say, have the M3 shell etc. This was lifted from the 325 Sport (usually fitted with the M20 6 pot 2.5 litre).But it did have the S14 (M3) engine albeit stroked down from 2,3 to 2 litres, and Getrag dogleg gearbox fitted to the M3 at the time.
I believe that it was also the car used to homologate the 2 Litre S14 motor for use in Supertouring era M3's, but I might be misremembering!!
Kim
p.s. I wouldn't mind having one parked in my garage all the same.
Edited by kimducati on Monday 8th January 18:25
Edited by kimducati on Monday 8th January 18:26
kimducati said:
The 320is didn't, as you say, have the M3 shell etc. This was lifted from the 325 Sport (usually fitted with the M20 6 pot 2.5 litre).
But it did have the S14 (M3) engine albeit stroked down from 2,3 to 2 litres, and Getrag dogleg gearbox fitted to the M3 at the time.
I believe that it was also the car used to homologate the 2 Litre S14 motor for use in Supertouring era M3's, but I might be misremembering!!
Kim
p.s. I wouldn't mind having one parked in my garage all the same.
My dad had one of these imported from Italy, it was a great car. As you say basically a 325i sport but with a 4 pot zinger which really suited it. Probably rarer than an M3 now.But it did have the S14 (M3) engine albeit stroked down from 2,3 to 2 litres, and Getrag dogleg gearbox fitted to the M3 at the time.
I believe that it was also the car used to homologate the 2 Litre S14 motor for use in Supertouring era M3's, but I might be misremembering!!
Kim
p.s. I wouldn't mind having one parked in my garage all the same.
Edited by kimducati on Monday 8th January 18:25
Edited by kimducati on Monday 8th January 18:26
Having lived in Italy from the late 70s to mid 80s, I recall not seeing many cars over 2 litres (Italians have a very different relationship with taxes than many other people!) this was both a shame and a blessing, in that the super tax directly led to the development of many excellent small engined cars (Delta Integrale etc.) that may otherwise never have been built.
Slightly O/T but interesting (in a nerdy kind of way) Italy also had an opposite type of situation with Motorbikes.
Basically to protect the Italian bike manufacturing industry (that mostly made small displacement machines) there was a ban on importing bikes of less than 380cc/170kg and because of Italian bike licensing laws, where graduated licences by age allowed up to 350cc for 18 - 21 year olds (125cc at 16 & 350cc+ at 21) and so this market was quite large as such, Suzuki, who in the '70s manufactured the 3 cylinder GT380 (displacement 371cc) made an Italian market only version that was 384cc and (claimed) 171kg.
Due to the minimal increase, I doubt there was any power advantage but they were a fairly nippy bike for the day.
Slightly O/T but interesting (in a nerdy kind of way) Italy also had an opposite type of situation with Motorbikes.
Basically to protect the Italian bike manufacturing industry (that mostly made small displacement machines) there was a ban on importing bikes of less than 380cc/170kg and because of Italian bike licensing laws, where graduated licences by age allowed up to 350cc for 18 - 21 year olds (125cc at 16 & 350cc+ at 21) and so this market was quite large as such, Suzuki, who in the '70s manufactured the 3 cylinder GT380 (displacement 371cc) made an Italian market only version that was 384cc and (claimed) 171kg.
Due to the minimal increase, I doubt there was any power advantage but they were a fairly nippy bike for the day.
kimducati said:
The 320is didn't, as you say, have the M3 shell etc. This was lifted from the 325 Sport (usually fitted with the M20 6 pot 2.5 litre).
But it did have the S14 (M3) engine albeit stroked down from 2,3 to 2 litres, and Getrag dogleg gearbox fitted to the M3 at the time.
I believe that it was also the car used to homologate the 2 Litre S14 motor for use in Supertouring era M3's, but I might be misremembering!!
Kim
p.s. I wouldn't mind having one parked in my garage all the same.
As far as i'm aware everything you say is correct. Given the stupid money people pay for E30 M3s I wouldn't be surprised if people tried asking similar money for 320is, I was never a fan of 4 pots from BMW during this era. I got a go around Silverstone in a 2002 with a full-house M12 on slide throttle injection once during the 80s, now that was a proper engine..But it did have the S14 (M3) engine albeit stroked down from 2,3 to 2 litres, and Getrag dogleg gearbox fitted to the M3 at the time.
I believe that it was also the car used to homologate the 2 Litre S14 motor for use in Supertouring era M3's, but I might be misremembering!!
Kim
p.s. I wouldn't mind having one parked in my garage all the same.
Edited by kimducati on Monday 8th January 18:25
Edited by kimducati on Monday 8th January 18:26
The only one I was unaware of was TVR's offering - a 2 litre Rover V8 sounds intriguing! Without the supercharger could have been a nice, high-revving engine, no wonder i've never seen or heard of one though with only 7 being made.
catso said:
Suzuki, who in the '70s manufactured the 3 cylinder GT380 (displacement 371cc) made an Italian market only version that was 384cc and (claimed) 171kg.
Due to the minimal increase, I doubt there was any power advantage but they were a fairly nippy bike for the day.
Certainly were, I lusted after one in the early ‘80s when I’d had my fill of my GT125 twin. A mate had an X7, another had a GT250 and another had skipped the 380 altogether for a GT550. The ‘kettle’ we could only dream about …Due to the minimal increase, I doubt there was any power advantage but they were a fairly nippy bike for the day.
Great range of bikes!
CKY said:
The only one I was unaware of was TVR's offering - a 2 litre Rover V8 sounds intriguing! Without the supercharger could have been a nice, high-revving engine, no wonder i've never seen or heard of one though with only 7 being made.
Old PH thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...Turbobanana said:
I've always been a bit fascinated by these. Don't forget the equally lovely Lamborghini Uracco P200.
I remember as a kid I bought a 1/43 or was it 1/57 or so back then, a Urraco toy, was one of my favorite cars as a kid :-)and ow, yesterday one came on sale a real one that is, looked nice, its in Italie.
ah this one the Urraco 2000, inside hm... but color not bad
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
oh, and here 30+ Ferrari with 2.0 engines way cheaper then the rare Lambo's
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?cc=...
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?cc=...
oh, forgot about those, the Fiat Dino V6 2.0 instead of the 2.4 I believe? in coupe and cabrio
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?cc=...
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?cc=...
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