First mass produced automatic gearbox cars
Discussion
I was watching a short Sci-Fi programme last night where a US WW2 fighter pilot crashes in modern Ohio.
In one scene he's trying to get away and jumps into a Jeep SUV and is confused by the fact that there are only 2 pedals.
I thought that was a mistake as I presumed nearly all US cars were autos even before WW2.
But I was wrong, seems the first mass produced auto box car came out in 1939.
Cool story bro, and all that
In one scene he's trying to get away and jumps into a Jeep SUV and is confused by the fact that there are only 2 pedals.
I thought that was a mistake as I presumed nearly all US cars were autos even before WW2.
But I was wrong, seems the first mass produced auto box car came out in 1939.
Cool story bro, and all that
I've always suffered from an odd fascination with the early automatics, particularly things like Buick's Dynaflow that didn't really bother with gears at all, but just relied on the torque converter for everything (the Dynaflow strictly had two gears, but for reasons best known to Buick, started off in top gear, unless actually put into first).
But although they were certainly available before WW2, even in the US it was mid to late 50s before autos were becoming the standard.
But although they were certainly available before WW2, even in the US it was mid to late 50s before autos were becoming the standard.
I believe I may have the earliest 5- speed automatic on here.
Wikipedia will have you think that BMW introduced it in 1991, but I have a 1990 Mercedes 300SL-24 with a 5- speed self shifter.
It’s not the kind of factoid which gets beautiful women swooning at your feet, but there you go.
Wikipedia will have you think that BMW introduced it in 1991, but I have a 1990 Mercedes 300SL-24 with a 5- speed self shifter.
It’s not the kind of factoid which gets beautiful women swooning at your feet, but there you go.
croyde said:
I was watching a short Sci-Fi programme last night where a US WW2 fighter pilot crashes in modern Ohio.
In one scene he's trying to get away and jumps into a Jeep SUV and is confused by the fact that there are only 2 pedals.
I thought that was a mistake as I presumed nearly all US cars were autos even before WW2.
But I was wrong, seems the first mass produced auto box car came out in 1939.
Cool story bro, and all that
Even earlier if you start to broaden your definition and include such forgotten contraptions as preselector gearboxes. In one scene he's trying to get away and jumps into a Jeep SUV and is confused by the fact that there are only 2 pedals.
I thought that was a mistake as I presumed nearly all US cars were autos even before WW2.
But I was wrong, seems the first mass produced auto box car came out in 1939.
Cool story bro, and all that
These were almost like modern dual clutch gearboxes, in that you would select the next gear you want in advance, and then just dab the clutch when you want to trigger the change.
MickyveloceClassic said:
I believe I may have the earliest 5- speed automatic on here.
Wikipedia will have you think that BMW introduced it in 1991, but I have a 1990 Mercedes 300SL-24 with a 5- speed self shifter.
It’s not the kind of factoid which gets beautiful women swooning at your feet, but there you go.
Yes but wasn't that a 4 speed with an electronic 5th overdrive?Wikipedia will have you think that BMW introduced it in 1991, but I have a 1990 Mercedes 300SL-24 with a 5- speed self shifter.
It’s not the kind of factoid which gets beautiful women swooning at your feet, but there you go.
Carfield said:
Basically yes, although there certainly were autos available and advertised pre-war, so he probably shouldn't have been shocked to the core!
The Hydramatic was introduced in autumn of 1939, with Oldsmobile, and eventually Cadillac for the 1942 model year, which of course only lasted half a years production, before being halted for wartime production.GM only produced about 200,000 in total before civilian production ended, so they were not exactly common place, and likely outside of the big cities like LA, San Fran, Detroit and NYC etc., they would likely have not been encountered, so its probable a country-boy US serviceman from WW2 could have never seen a two pedal car.
Of course, it was the WW2 engineering developments, by GM and others for tanks etc., (the M3 Stuart light tank used the GM Hydramatic automatic trans) that advanced so much the automatic for use in cars after the war in the USA.
Back when manuals typically had 3 speeds, autos often only had 2.
With 4 speed manual gearboxes came autos with 3.
Once 5 speed manuals were the norm autos started having 4.
Now, if you can find a manual, it'll have 6 speeds (or even 7): autos have 8, 9 or 10. They've finally overtaken!
With 4 speed manual gearboxes came autos with 3.
Once 5 speed manuals were the norm autos started having 4.
Now, if you can find a manual, it'll have 6 speeds (or even 7): autos have 8, 9 or 10. They've finally overtaken!
Turbobanana said:
Back when manuals typically had 3 speeds, autos often only had 2.
With 4 speed manual gearboxes came autos with 3.
Once 5 speed manuals were the norm autos started having 4.
Now, if you can find a manual, it'll have 6 speeds (or even 7): autos have 8, 9 or 10. They've finally overtaken!
Ironically, the first, GM's Hydramatic was a 4 speed, but it didn't have a torque convertor, but a fluid coupling, which required the 4 gears. It was more efficient that say the later 2-speed Powerglide, but not as smooth, and it was the smoothness, but not very efficient effect of the 'slushbox' that was its benefit and its achilles heel until the modern lock up TC's came into being in the 80's onwards......and effectively going back to the Hydramatic that needed 40 years of tech advancement to really take over from the manual in general use.With 4 speed manual gearboxes came autos with 3.
Once 5 speed manuals were the norm autos started having 4.
Now, if you can find a manual, it'll have 6 speeds (or even 7): autos have 8, 9 or 10. They've finally overtaken!
PositronicRay said:
MickyveloceClassic said:
I believe I may have the earliest 5- speed automatic on here.
Wikipedia will have you think that BMW introduced it in 1991, but I have a 1990 Mercedes 300SL-24 with a 5- speed self shifter.
It’s not the kind of factoid which gets beautiful women swooning at your feet, but there you go.
Yes but wasn't that a 4 speed with an electronic 5th overdrive?Wikipedia will have you think that BMW introduced it in 1991, but I have a 1990 Mercedes 300SL-24 with a 5- speed self shifter.
It’s not the kind of factoid which gets beautiful women swooning at your feet, but there you go.
Turbobanana said:
Back when manuals typically had 3 speeds, autos often only had 2.
With 4 speed manual gearboxes came autos with 3.
Once 5 speed manuals were the norm autos started having 4.
Now, if you can find a manual, it'll have 6 speeds (or even 7): autos have 8, 9 or 10. They've finally overtaken!
Well they have more gears, but I really wouldn't want one! With 4 speed manual gearboxes came autos with 3.
Once 5 speed manuals were the norm autos started having 4.
Now, if you can find a manual, it'll have 6 speeds (or even 7): autos have 8, 9 or 10. They've finally overtaken!
6 speed manuals work fine for me.
What sort of engine needs more gears?
Mr Tidy said:
Well they have more gears, but I really wouldn't want one!
6 speed manuals work fine for me.
What sort of engine needs more gears?
As much as I hate to weigh in on the side of the automatic gearbox it's quite impressive to drive an 8 speed auto that keeps the engine to within a couple of hundred RPM of peak power when you're pressing on. From a "top trumps" point of view they're very fast, it's why even really boring stuff like 150bhp diesel SUVs are really quite fast up to 50MPH or so now, they're making peak power almost the entire time and if they're AWD they're managing to get it all to the road too.6 speed manuals work fine for me.
What sort of engine needs more gears?
You can also have a much wider gear spread when you have 8+ ratios to play with, so you don't have to chose between closely stacked ratios for performance and a tall final gear for economy. With a ZF6 my 5.0 V8 is doing 2000RPM at 70MPH, the later ZF8 ones drop that down to 1600 - 1700RPM and get an extra couple of MPG on a long run because of it.
Once people buy "sports cars" with a cuckbox I'm a lot less keen to defend them though
I liked the mention of pre selector gearboxes. I think they were fairly popular on some prewar cars - especially Daimler, as well as some early post war cars. Daimler also used them in buses. For some reason I remember reading in an old "Meccano Magazine" about a model of the Wilson Preselector Gearbox -quite a feat. I also think that some Talbot Lago racing cars had these gearboxes.
Back in the mid 70s I briefly drove buses, so the very first automatic I drove was a bus full of people! I'd trained on a Bristol Lodekka and training back then didn't include the sophistication of automatics - mercifully I worked out what the initials stood for and no harm done. I still reflect that it doesn't say much for training standards back then.
Back in the mid 70s I briefly drove buses, so the very first automatic I drove was a bus full of people! I'd trained on a Bristol Lodekka and training back then didn't include the sophistication of automatics - mercifully I worked out what the initials stood for and no harm done. I still reflect that it doesn't say much for training standards back then.
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