Esso set to withdraw Ethanol Free Superunleaded!

Esso set to withdraw Ethanol Free Superunleaded!

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Discussion

astonman

Original Poster:

799 posts

215 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
Esso, feel that they are out of step with the Industry norm and are therefore set to start adding up to 5% Ethanol to Supreme 99+ Super unleaded petrol ,from September 2023.
At the moment Esso 99+ supplied from from their own terminals in the South East and Midlands of England are Ethanol free ( though marked as E5 ,for legal reasons).
I really do believe that Esso are making a huge marketing mistake.
At the moment,they are the go to fuel for all Classic, Vintage and most Aston- Martin cars.
Esso, Ethanol free fuel is specifically suggested by many independent Aston Martin specialists,even for new or nearly new cars!
It's also much better in older / vintage lawn mowers etc

https://www.exxonmobil.co.uk/company/overview/cont...

The more who suggest the error of their ways,the better!

Skyedriver

18,498 posts

287 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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As I understand it, the Esso 99 already has 5% in it up here in Scotland.

astonman

Original Poster:

799 posts

215 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
I'm trying to Not suggest that alcohol gets put in everything in Scotland!
The majority of people in England ( South East and Midlands, I get mine from Buxton)have access to the best quality Ethanol free fuel from Esso at the moment,but it all goes in September,unless we express our views.

kjs62

116 posts

120 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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Yes I read that on their website a couple of weeks ago - I use it in 1970s motorcycles - I've been to a couple of events in last few weeks and talking to classic car owners and generally they didn't know that Esso Super Unleaded was Ethanol free at the mo - even a chap at a lawnmower spares place didn't know about it

OutInTheShed

8,625 posts

31 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
astonman said:
I'm trying to Not suggest that alcohol gets put in everything in Scotland!
.....
Does this mean petrol will fall foul of the minimum alcohol price?

Personally, I think there is a lot of nonsense about alcohol in petrol,

Riley Blue

21,431 posts

231 months

Tuesday 20th June 2023
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
astonman said:
I'm trying to Not suggest that alcohol gets put in everything in Scotland!
.....
Does this mean petrol will fall foul of the minimum alcohol price?

Personally, I think there is a lot of nonsense about alcohol in petrol,
Nowhere near the amount there is about ethanol.

eliot

11,682 posts

259 months

Tuesday 20th June 2023
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You can measure the content yourself:
https://youtu.be/0ge2PZIX1oM

I’m in Milton Keynes some [old] vpower i had in a can from Nov 22 was 2%
Esso super was indeed 0%

vPower from Nov 22:

astonman

Original Poster:

799 posts

215 months

Tuesday 20th June 2023
quotequote all
A wonderful example of phase separation.Its also what happens in your tank over time,as more water is absorbed into the ethanol,until you end up with mainly water at the bottom of the tank,to fuel your engine.

Riley Blue

21,431 posts

231 months

Wednesday 21st June 2023
quotequote all
Which thread would you like us to post in, this one or this one:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

vpr

3,774 posts

243 months

Wednesday 21st June 2023
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That’s a big mistake if Esso cave

I know soooo many people that will only use Esso super for this very reason. Me included.

I won’t use anything else, especially on my old cars. BIG mistake

eliot

11,682 posts

259 months

Wednesday 21st June 2023
quotequote all
Riley Blue said:
Which thread would you like us to post in, this one or this one:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Can they be merged - especially my post showing how to test fuel yourself

GTRene

17,441 posts

229 months

Thursday 22nd June 2023
quotequote all
vpr said:
That’s a big mistake if Esso cave

I know soooo many people that will only use Esso super for this very reason. Me included.

I won’t use anything else, especially on my old cars. BIG mistake
they don't care, just like bud light, they get instructions...

they are also partners of the WEF, you know, for a sustainable environment... kuch.

https://www.weforum.org/organizations/exxon-mobil-...

Yertis

18,509 posts

271 months

Thursday 22nd June 2023
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astonman said:
A wonderful example of phase separation.Its also what happens in your tank over time,as more water is absorbed into the ethanol, until you end up with mainly water at the bottom of the tank to fuel your engine.
How long does this take to happen? Presumably the only option is to drain the tank.

astonman

Original Poster:

799 posts

215 months

Friday 23rd June 2023
quotequote all
The process of absorbing water starts as soon as the fuel has exposure to air,( likely even when in the tanks at the pumps) so definitely as soon as you get it into your fuel tank.
The rate of absorption will depend on how damp the air is and how much exposure the fuel gets.
Also the fuel will only separate once a threshold percentage of water is reached.
It's therefore likely a brimmed tank will take much much longer to get phase separation than a tank which is 10% from empty.
However,there are other factors here . Carburettor cars,that are perfectly set up on Ethanol free fuel will run weak on E5 and even weaker on E10.
Cars with more modern fuel injection system may have some form of enrichment capability from feedback from Lambda sensors etc.
But many cars older than 10 years have a very limited ability to do this and may still run weak or have their performance reduced .This is particularly true of more exotic cars ( likely kept as modern classics) than mass market stuff.

eliot

11,682 posts

259 months

Saturday 24th June 2023
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astonman said:
.
Cars with more modern fuel injection system may have some form of enrichment capability from feedback from Lambda sensors etc.
But many cars older than 10 years have a very limited ability to do this and may still run weak or have their performance reduced .This is particularly true of more exotic cars ( likely kept as modern classics) than mass market stuff.
All cars since cats were fitted have closed loop lamda mixture control - so about 30 years.
If you are thinking of knock control - that was fitted to many cars from the late 90’s
The biggest issue for older cars is mainly the rubber fuel lines - the correct spec used to be codan r6 but codan r9 is more appropriate.

AW111

9,674 posts

138 months

Saturday 24th June 2023
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eliot said:
astonman said:
.
Cars with more modern fuel injection system may have some form of enrichment capability from feedback from Lambda sensors etc.
But many cars older than 10 years have a very limited ability to do this and may still run weak or have their performance reduced .This is particularly true of more exotic cars ( likely kept as modern classics) than mass market stuff.
All cars since cats were fitted have closed loop lamda mixture control - so about 30 years.
If you are thinking of knock control - that was fitted to many cars from the late 90’s
The biggest issue for older cars is mainly the rubber fuel lines - the correct spec used to be codan r6 but codan r9 is more appropriate.
Most older EFI cars only run closed-loop mixture control at light throttle or cruise. At WOT and/or high RPM, they revert to open-loop, where ethanol content may indeed cause lean running.

astonman

Original Poster:

799 posts

215 months

Saturday 24th June 2023
quotequote all
Thank you sir for that proper technical explanation thumbup
That's exactly the problem with my 2005 TVR and I believe Astons older than 10 years or so.

Heaveho

5,585 posts

179 months

Saturday 24th June 2023
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More likely to be a problem on a turbo car than NA.

AW111

9,674 posts

138 months

Saturday 24th June 2023
quotequote all
Heaveho said:
More likely to be a problem on a turbo car than NA.
The EFI injects a given volume of fuel per cycle. If the density of the fuel, or it's stoichiometry ratio is different from what the EFI is programmed for, the mixture will be different to what the EFI expects.

How much that matters depends on how close to the edge the tune is.
For normal road cars, it's generally fine.

But for high performance cars it can be an issue, whether turbo or NA.

I'm involved in classic rallying (lots of Webers and clockwork ignition).
Many of these cars are tuned to the ragged edge, and more than one person has had expensive issues due to tuning on Ex then running on Ey.

We've done plug cuts & re-jetted on the side of the road on a multi-day event when the only fuel available locally was E10.

OutInTheShed

8,625 posts

31 months

Saturday 24th June 2023
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The energy difference per volume of fuel is what? About 1%?
How many carbs are jetted to 1% accuracy?

I'm not sure it's even true that ethanol causes a motor to run lean, although the C2H5OH already has some oxygen in it. It will depend on what other compounds are in the blend of petrol. I think the fuel companies blend it to run much the same?

Some problems occur with rubber and plastic parts, but most of those are time served by now anyway.