Esso set to withdraw Ethanol Free Superunleaded!
Discussion
Esso, feel that they are out of step with the Industry norm and are therefore set to start adding up to 5% Ethanol to Supreme 99+ Super unleaded petrol ,from September 2023.
At the moment Esso 99+ supplied from from their own terminals in the South East and Midlands of England are Ethanol free ( though marked as E5 ,for legal reasons).
I really do believe that Esso are making a huge marketing mistake.
At the moment,they are the go to fuel for all Classic, Vintage and most Aston- Martin cars.
Esso, Ethanol free fuel is specifically suggested by many independent Aston Martin specialists,even for new or nearly new cars!
It's also much better in older / vintage lawn mowers etc
https://www.exxonmobil.co.uk/company/overview/cont...
The more who suggest the error of their ways,the better!
At the moment Esso 99+ supplied from from their own terminals in the South East and Midlands of England are Ethanol free ( though marked as E5 ,for legal reasons).
I really do believe that Esso are making a huge marketing mistake.
At the moment,they are the go to fuel for all Classic, Vintage and most Aston- Martin cars.
Esso, Ethanol free fuel is specifically suggested by many independent Aston Martin specialists,even for new or nearly new cars!
It's also much better in older / vintage lawn mowers etc
https://www.exxonmobil.co.uk/company/overview/cont...
The more who suggest the error of their ways,the better!
I'm trying to Not suggest that alcohol gets put in everything in Scotland!
The majority of people in England ( South East and Midlands, I get mine from Buxton)have access to the best quality Ethanol free fuel from Esso at the moment,but it all goes in September,unless we express our views.
The majority of people in England ( South East and Midlands, I get mine from Buxton)have access to the best quality Ethanol free fuel from Esso at the moment,but it all goes in September,unless we express our views.
Yes I read that on their website a couple of weeks ago - I use it in 1970s motorcycles - I've been to a couple of events in last few weeks and talking to classic car owners and generally they didn't know that Esso Super Unleaded was Ethanol free at the mo - even a chap at a lawnmower spares place didn't know about it
OutInTheShed said:
astonman said:
I'm trying to Not suggest that alcohol gets put in everything in Scotland!
.....
Does this mean petrol will fall foul of the minimum alcohol price?.....
Personally, I think there is a lot of nonsense about alcohol in petrol,
You can measure the content yourself:
https://youtu.be/0ge2PZIX1oM
I’m in Milton Keynes some [old] vpower i had in a can from Nov 22 was 2%
Esso super was indeed 0%
vPower from Nov 22:
https://youtu.be/0ge2PZIX1oM
I’m in Milton Keynes some [old] vpower i had in a can from Nov 22 was 2%
Esso super was indeed 0%
vPower from Nov 22:
Which thread would you like us to post in, this one or this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Riley Blue said:
Which thread would you like us to post in, this one or this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Can they be merged - especially my post showing how to test fuel yourself https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
vpr said:
That’s a big mistake if Esso cave
I know soooo many people that will only use Esso super for this very reason. Me included.
I won’t use anything else, especially on my old cars. BIG mistake
they don't care, just like bud light, they get instructions...I know soooo many people that will only use Esso super for this very reason. Me included.
I won’t use anything else, especially on my old cars. BIG mistake
they are also partners of the WEF, you know, for a sustainable environment... kuch.
https://www.weforum.org/organizations/exxon-mobil-...
astonman said:
A wonderful example of phase separation.Its also what happens in your tank over time,as more water is absorbed into the ethanol, until you end up with mainly water at the bottom of the tank to fuel your engine.
How long does this take to happen? Presumably the only option is to drain the tank. The process of absorbing water starts as soon as the fuel has exposure to air,( likely even when in the tanks at the pumps) so definitely as soon as you get it into your fuel tank.
The rate of absorption will depend on how damp the air is and how much exposure the fuel gets.
Also the fuel will only separate once a threshold percentage of water is reached.
It's therefore likely a brimmed tank will take much much longer to get phase separation than a tank which is 10% from empty.
However,there are other factors here . Carburettor cars,that are perfectly set up on Ethanol free fuel will run weak on E5 and even weaker on E10.
Cars with more modern fuel injection system may have some form of enrichment capability from feedback from Lambda sensors etc.
But many cars older than 10 years have a very limited ability to do this and may still run weak or have their performance reduced .This is particularly true of more exotic cars ( likely kept as modern classics) than mass market stuff.
The rate of absorption will depend on how damp the air is and how much exposure the fuel gets.
Also the fuel will only separate once a threshold percentage of water is reached.
It's therefore likely a brimmed tank will take much much longer to get phase separation than a tank which is 10% from empty.
However,there are other factors here . Carburettor cars,that are perfectly set up on Ethanol free fuel will run weak on E5 and even weaker on E10.
Cars with more modern fuel injection system may have some form of enrichment capability from feedback from Lambda sensors etc.
But many cars older than 10 years have a very limited ability to do this and may still run weak or have their performance reduced .This is particularly true of more exotic cars ( likely kept as modern classics) than mass market stuff.
astonman said:
.
Cars with more modern fuel injection system may have some form of enrichment capability from feedback from Lambda sensors etc.
But many cars older than 10 years have a very limited ability to do this and may still run weak or have their performance reduced .This is particularly true of more exotic cars ( likely kept as modern classics) than mass market stuff.
All cars since cats were fitted have closed loop lamda mixture control - so about 30 years.Cars with more modern fuel injection system may have some form of enrichment capability from feedback from Lambda sensors etc.
But many cars older than 10 years have a very limited ability to do this and may still run weak or have their performance reduced .This is particularly true of more exotic cars ( likely kept as modern classics) than mass market stuff.
If you are thinking of knock control - that was fitted to many cars from the late 90’s
The biggest issue for older cars is mainly the rubber fuel lines - the correct spec used to be codan r6 but codan r9 is more appropriate.
eliot said:
astonman said:
.
Cars with more modern fuel injection system may have some form of enrichment capability from feedback from Lambda sensors etc.
But many cars older than 10 years have a very limited ability to do this and may still run weak or have their performance reduced .This is particularly true of more exotic cars ( likely kept as modern classics) than mass market stuff.
All cars since cats were fitted have closed loop lamda mixture control - so about 30 years.Cars with more modern fuel injection system may have some form of enrichment capability from feedback from Lambda sensors etc.
But many cars older than 10 years have a very limited ability to do this and may still run weak or have their performance reduced .This is particularly true of more exotic cars ( likely kept as modern classics) than mass market stuff.
If you are thinking of knock control - that was fitted to many cars from the late 90’s
The biggest issue for older cars is mainly the rubber fuel lines - the correct spec used to be codan r6 but codan r9 is more appropriate.
Heaveho said:
More likely to be a problem on a turbo car than NA.
The EFI injects a given volume of fuel per cycle. If the density of the fuel, or it's stoichiometry ratio is different from what the EFI is programmed for, the mixture will be different to what the EFI expects.How much that matters depends on how close to the edge the tune is.
For normal road cars, it's generally fine.
But for high performance cars it can be an issue, whether turbo or NA.
I'm involved in classic rallying (lots of Webers and clockwork ignition).
Many of these cars are tuned to the ragged edge, and more than one person has had expensive issues due to tuning on Ex then running on Ey.
We've done plug cuts & re-jetted on the side of the road on a multi-day event when the only fuel available locally was E10.
The energy difference per volume of fuel is what? About 1%?
How many carbs are jetted to 1% accuracy?
I'm not sure it's even true that ethanol causes a motor to run lean, although the C2H5OH already has some oxygen in it. It will depend on what other compounds are in the blend of petrol. I think the fuel companies blend it to run much the same?
Some problems occur with rubber and plastic parts, but most of those are time served by now anyway.
How many carbs are jetted to 1% accuracy?
I'm not sure it's even true that ethanol causes a motor to run lean, although the C2H5OH already has some oxygen in it. It will depend on what other compounds are in the blend of petrol. I think the fuel companies blend it to run much the same?
Some problems occur with rubber and plastic parts, but most of those are time served by now anyway.
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