Bedford J5 Fire Engine - take it on or run a mile?
Discussion
My wife's family own a 1962 Bedford J5 fire engine that has now been stood in a farmer's yard for at least fifteen years, which they are thinking of selling.
My wife is sentimentally attached to it and has fond memories of going to classic shows in it as a child in the early 90s, and she hopes to buy it and run it as a novelty vehicle, taking it to shows and going on the occasional adventure.
About 1993:
Now:
At this stage there are big unknowns about its condition and what it might take to recommission - but the sake of this thread let's assume it hasn't bitten the dust and can be made to stop and go.
1. I do my own servicing and straight forward(ish) component replacements. Could an old truck like this be run by the average Saturday morning car enthusiast, or are such things best left to retired mechanics with beards, Yorkshire accents, and their own fully equipped workshop?
2. Are these things simple and over engineered enough that they will happily chug along with basic servicing for decades, or will it regularly break down and need rare components sourcing/making to keep it running?
3. Anything else you think I should know about something like this.
We have the space for it, but I assume it would be a big commitment to take it on and run it. I'm expecting to be talked out of it rather than into it so feel free to put me off.
My wife is sentimentally attached to it and has fond memories of going to classic shows in it as a child in the early 90s, and she hopes to buy it and run it as a novelty vehicle, taking it to shows and going on the occasional adventure.
About 1993:
Now:
At this stage there are big unknowns about its condition and what it might take to recommission - but the sake of this thread let's assume it hasn't bitten the dust and can be made to stop and go.
1. I do my own servicing and straight forward(ish) component replacements. Could an old truck like this be run by the average Saturday morning car enthusiast, or are such things best left to retired mechanics with beards, Yorkshire accents, and their own fully equipped workshop?
2. Are these things simple and over engineered enough that they will happily chug along with basic servicing for decades, or will it regularly break down and need rare components sourcing/making to keep it running?
3. Anything else you think I should know about something like this.
We have the space for it, but I assume it would be a big commitment to take it on and run it. I'm expecting to be talked out of it rather than into it so feel free to put me off.
Interesting question, OP. My take, based on far too little experience of commercials, is:
For:
- Lovely old thing, worth preserving
- Trucks were built robustly to withstand a rigorous life, so should be hard to break one
- Accessibility ought to be better than on some cars
- You have space for it
- It'll make a great "Readers' Cars" thread
Against:
- You'll need big spanners
- Parts availability: you probably can't buy too many bits at Halfords
- Inevitable cost of parts / running: I don't suppose it does many mpg
- How often can you actually use it, and what for?
All of the above pales into insignificance, however, because the answer is already in your post: you have your wife's permission.
Go for it, I'd say, and good luck to you.
For:
- Lovely old thing, worth preserving
- Trucks were built robustly to withstand a rigorous life, so should be hard to break one
- Accessibility ought to be better than on some cars
- You have space for it
- It'll make a great "Readers' Cars" thread
Against:
- You'll need big spanners
- Parts availability: you probably can't buy too many bits at Halfords
- Inevitable cost of parts / running: I don't suppose it does many mpg
- How often can you actually use it, and what for?
All of the above pales into insignificance, however, because the answer is already in your post: you have your wife's permission.
Go for it, I'd say, and good luck to you.
Yes as Turbobanana said over engineered & do mega miles, but when you do need bits they're expensive by car standards. Also if its stood that long it'll need waterpump, batteries & rubber bits in the brakes replaced at a minimum.
I think it's a Bedford TK base so could have anyone of 4 engines. 2 of which are petrol which will give horrific MPG. The 4 pot diesel I've had dealings with (a turbo version) and they're pretty economical. There were zillions of these around so spares shouldn't be an issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_TK
Jim (father was HGV & van garage manager)
I think it's a Bedford TK base so could have anyone of 4 engines. 2 of which are petrol which will give horrific MPG. The 4 pot diesel I've had dealings with (a turbo version) and they're pretty economical. There were zillions of these around so spares shouldn't be an issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_TK
Jim (father was HGV & van garage manager)
tr7v8 said:
PS Make sure you can drive it, so licence held before 1997 gives you grandfather rights, but I believe once over 30 years old you can drive it on a car licence.
You can drive a bus that's over 30 years old but HGVs must be unladen and built before 1 January 1960. Seems an odd situation, 30 yr old bus but 62 yr old truck!https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
john2443 said:
tr7v8 said:
PS Make sure you can drive it, so licence held before 1997 gives you grandfather rights, but I believe once over 30 years old you can drive it on a car licence.
You can drive a bus that's over 30 years old but HGVs must be unladen and built before 1 January 1960. Seems an odd situation, 30 yr old bus but 62 yr old truck!https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Having looked at that thread, you are absolutely correct. I'm 37 with a B1 license. The listed weight of the fire engine is 3501kg, which suggests its been deliberately pushed up into the >3500kg band.
I'm not about to do an HGV license for the sake of this so I think that kills the idea.
Thanks for the input and interest. Hopefully it will go to a good home.
Yep, it's 2 years too young;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
However you can drive one of these on a car licence;;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
However you can drive one of these on a car licence;;
Mammasaid said:
Yep, it's 2 years too young;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
However you can drive one of these on a car licence;;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
However you can drive one of these on a car licence;;
and presumably that’s ULEZ compliant?
One thing I know about fire engines is that their engines get an absolute hammering, going from zero to flat out frequently and for short journeys.
Yertis said:
Mammasaid said:
Yep, it's 2 years too young;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
However you can drive one of these on a car licence;;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
However you can drive one of these on a car licence;;
and presumably that’s ULEZ compliant?
One thing I know about fire engines is that their engines get an absolute hammering, going from zero to flat out frequently and for short journeys.
There's precedent that a fire engine is a "mobile project vehicle" so you may well be entitled to drive it. See here https://www.pattersonlaw.co.uk/faqs/the-fire-engin...
Turbobanana said:
Interesting question, OP. My take, based on far too little experience of commercials, is:
For:
- Lovely old thing, worth preserving
- Trucks were built robustly to withstand a rigorous life, so should be hard to break one
- Accessibility ought to be better than on some cars
- You have space for it
- It'll make a great "Readers' Cars" thread
Against:
- You'll need big spanners
- Parts availability: you probably can't buy too many bits at Halfords
- Inevitable cost of parts / running: I don't suppose it does many mpg
- How often can you actually use it, and what for?
All of the above pales into insignificance, however, because the answer is already in your post: you have your wife's permission.
Go for it, I'd say, and good luck to you.
As a caveat to having space for it, I would also add ideally inside.For:
- Lovely old thing, worth preserving
- Trucks were built robustly to withstand a rigorous life, so should be hard to break one
- Accessibility ought to be better than on some cars
- You have space for it
- It'll make a great "Readers' Cars" thread
Against:
- You'll need big spanners
- Parts availability: you probably can't buy too many bits at Halfords
- Inevitable cost of parts / running: I don't suppose it does many mpg
- How often can you actually use it, and what for?
All of the above pales into insignificance, however, because the answer is already in your post: you have your wife's permission.
Go for it, I'd say, and good luck to you.
Try & find a group/forum that specialise in old fire engines.
40-odd years ago a tenant of ours asked to keep a number of old appliances on the land he was renting as the society of which he was a member were losing some of their storage space.
The appliances were all restored & fully running - incl one that had gone from Leicester to Coventry during the Blitz.
We had no issue with this & in the end were thankful that we did as there was a fire in an outbuilding & the local Fire Brigade arrived - having had considerable difficulty in finding the location - to find our tenant had started up one of the appliances, run out the hose & put the fire out.
No question that he saved the outbuildings & saved us ££££s.
One of the problems - even then - was some of the parts & not just the special bits.
One of the appliances was a Green Goddess & on one occasion he went to start it up to take to a show & someone had stolen the gearbox. They had a hell of a job finding a replacement.
There had been 'New Age Travellers' with an old bus in a nearby layby & the educated opinion was that the bus had had gearbox issues & they'd pinched the Goddess one as they would have used the same box.
Unfortunately he died some years ago & the engines were removed so I can't pass his details.
I THINK it might have been something like the Leicester Fire Preservation Society if that's any help.
They did have strong links with the Fire Brigade so might be worth asking your local one.
40-odd years ago a tenant of ours asked to keep a number of old appliances on the land he was renting as the society of which he was a member were losing some of their storage space.
The appliances were all restored & fully running - incl one that had gone from Leicester to Coventry during the Blitz.
We had no issue with this & in the end were thankful that we did as there was a fire in an outbuilding & the local Fire Brigade arrived - having had considerable difficulty in finding the location - to find our tenant had started up one of the appliances, run out the hose & put the fire out.
No question that he saved the outbuildings & saved us ££££s.
One of the problems - even then - was some of the parts & not just the special bits.
One of the appliances was a Green Goddess & on one occasion he went to start it up to take to a show & someone had stolen the gearbox. They had a hell of a job finding a replacement.
There had been 'New Age Travellers' with an old bus in a nearby layby & the educated opinion was that the bus had had gearbox issues & they'd pinched the Goddess one as they would have used the same box.
Unfortunately he died some years ago & the engines were removed so I can't pass his details.
I THINK it might have been something like the Leicester Fire Preservation Society if that's any help.
They did have strong links with the Fire Brigade so might be worth asking your local one.
Edited by paintman on Friday 10th February 18:45
Run a mile....
I recently wen't through a restoration job because my wife was emotionally attached. It was a vehicle that you can readily buy parts for and from initial observations was not that far gone. From once you start on the most basic job, you will unearth a plethora of new ones and it just keeps going.
My advice would be to sneak down there with your tools without saying anything to your wife and do the most simple job such as removing the starter motor. If you enjoy it and you don't see leaks everywhere you look whilst underneath, then get the starter reconditioned locally and refit it. By the time you have done this you will have a fair idea if it's going to be a nice hobby or a tiresome money pit. Only you can answer that. Also, things like glass and rubber seals seem like they will be easy to source but can be expensive and difficult to find.
Rust will be a major problem so hopefully you can weld. When it is structurally sound you will have to get the engine running so you will need to understand the basics of this too. If you can't get it running, do you know a mechanic who will stand in a rainy farmyard and not shaft you for doing so. There are some people who like to do jobs like this and don;t charge too much, but befriend one before you start the project!
If you do take it on then please start a thread as projects like this are interesting and the things you learn along the way can be shared to help and inspire us too. A youtube channel would be good too, it is amazing the stuff I learn on there.
I recently wen't through a restoration job because my wife was emotionally attached. It was a vehicle that you can readily buy parts for and from initial observations was not that far gone. From once you start on the most basic job, you will unearth a plethora of new ones and it just keeps going.
My advice would be to sneak down there with your tools without saying anything to your wife and do the most simple job such as removing the starter motor. If you enjoy it and you don't see leaks everywhere you look whilst underneath, then get the starter reconditioned locally and refit it. By the time you have done this you will have a fair idea if it's going to be a nice hobby or a tiresome money pit. Only you can answer that. Also, things like glass and rubber seals seem like they will be easy to source but can be expensive and difficult to find.
Rust will be a major problem so hopefully you can weld. When it is structurally sound you will have to get the engine running so you will need to understand the basics of this too. If you can't get it running, do you know a mechanic who will stand in a rainy farmyard and not shaft you for doing so. There are some people who like to do jobs like this and don;t charge too much, but befriend one before you start the project!
If you do take it on then please start a thread as projects like this are interesting and the things you learn along the way can be shared to help and inspire us too. A youtube channel would be good too, it is amazing the stuff I learn on there.
GJL said:
Run a mile....
I recently wen't through a restoration job because my wife was emotionally attached. It was a vehicle that you can readily buy parts for and from initial observations was not that far gone. From once you start on the most basic job, you will unearth a plethora of new ones and it just keeps going.
My advice would be to sneak down there with your tools without saying anything to your wife and do the most simple job such as removing the starter motor. If you enjoy it and you don't see leaks everywhere you look whilst underneath, then get the starter reconditioned locally and refit it. By the time you have done this you will have a fair idea if it's going to be a nice hobby or a tiresome money pit. Only you can answer that. Also, things like glass and rubber seals seem like they will be easy to source but can be expensive and difficult to find.
Rust will be a major problem so hopefully you can weld. When it is structurally sound you will have to get the engine running so you will need to understand the basics of this too. If you can't get it running, do you know a mechanic who will stand in a rainy farmyard and not shaft you for doing so. There are some people who like to do jobs like this and don;t charge too much, but befriend one before you start the project!
If you do take it on then please start a thread as projects like this are interesting and the things you learn along the way can be shared to help and inspire us too. A youtube channel would be good too, it is amazing the stuff I learn on there.
+1I recently wen't through a restoration job because my wife was emotionally attached. It was a vehicle that you can readily buy parts for and from initial observations was not that far gone. From once you start on the most basic job, you will unearth a plethora of new ones and it just keeps going.
My advice would be to sneak down there with your tools without saying anything to your wife and do the most simple job such as removing the starter motor. If you enjoy it and you don't see leaks everywhere you look whilst underneath, then get the starter reconditioned locally and refit it. By the time you have done this you will have a fair idea if it's going to be a nice hobby or a tiresome money pit. Only you can answer that. Also, things like glass and rubber seals seem like they will be easy to source but can be expensive and difficult to find.
Rust will be a major problem so hopefully you can weld. When it is structurally sound you will have to get the engine running so you will need to understand the basics of this too. If you can't get it running, do you know a mechanic who will stand in a rainy farmyard and not shaft you for doing so. There are some people who like to do jobs like this and don;t charge too much, but befriend one before you start the project!
If you do take it on then please start a thread as projects like this are interesting and the things you learn along the way can be shared to help and inspire us too. A youtube channel would be good too, it is amazing the stuff I learn on there.
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