Historics Auction

[petjam]

Anyone following this?

I've always had a hankering for a Pagoda but thought they were always a little high.

Now I don't much about them but Historics have sold two today for mid thirties.

Has there been a price correction?

[SFTWend]

I was there. Some of those Pagodas were a bit ropey. Think someone might have been having a fire sale as there were also a couple of 'not very well' painted part restoration SLs amongst the lots.

Possibly most depressed Historics event I've been to for some time; awful lot of cars not getting close to lower estimate.

[SydneyBridge]

How much did the Queen's old x type go for?

[tim0409]

SydneyBridge said:

How much did the Queen's old x type go for?

£39,200

[sixor8]

I bid on the blue 1979 XJ6 series 2. It was repainted to appear in an upcoming episode of Black Mirror apparently. But they didn't do in the engine bay. Doesn't bother me if it's cheap enough, and the interior was all there, but really grubby. Needed work, so I bailed out at £4k. It went for £5750 plus fees, and by the time you've collected it from Weybridge, you're in at £6500. Too much I thought.

Many cars got nowhere near reserves I noticed, especially your 'show' cars that will be likely stored / bought as investments. Now interest rates are rising, the big money is getting out I reckon. Cars to actually drive (which I want), not so much, they were selling.


Edited to add: I also considered the CL500 near the end but that went too high too, IMHO. Seems people don't check old auction results, that car has done the rounds of 3 classic auctions now, can't imagine why.

Edited by sixor8 on Saturday 26th November 19:51

[SFTWend]

sixor8 said:

I bid on the blue 1979 XJ6 series 2. It was repainted to appear in an upcoming episode of Black Mirror apparently. But they didn't do in the engine bay. Doesn't bother me if it's cheap enough, and the interior was all there, but really grubby. Needed work, so I bailed out at £4k. It went for £5750 plus fees, and by the time you've collected it from Weybridge, you're in at £6500. Too much I thought.

Many cars got nowhere near reserves I noticed, especially your 'show' cars that will be likely stored / bought as investments. Now interest rates are rising, the big money is getting out I reckon. Cars to actually drive (which I want), not so much, they were selling.


Edited to add: I also considered the CL500 near the end but that went too high too, IMHO. Seems people don't check old auction results, that car has done the rounds of 3 classic auctions now, can't imagine why.

Edited by sixor8 on Saturday 26th November 19:51

You really are taking a punt bidding online. I walked past that blue Jag and noticed how much paint had departed from the sill. The red XJ was lovely though.

The brief catalogue descriptions can encourage incorrect assumptions and the auction house does encourage you to look at the paperwork before bidding. A couple of 30 year old Mercs I looked at, described as having good maintenance history, did indeed have nicely stamped up service books but only for the first ten years and nothing since.

[sixor8]

If a car is cheap enough, I'll take a punt. One thing they didn't mention about the blue Jag was that it had a clean MoT only 9 days before the auction. And it's not a legal requirement on anything 40 years old (some old cars are punted through without one ) so having seen on wheeler dealers what a nightmare the rear inboard brakes can be, they should be ok.

I bought a 1997 Honda Prelude on the strength of photos only at H+H auction but it was only £2k. Sold it for a small profit after 6 months, and a couple of cheap fixes (ignition switch because it was cutting out, and VTEC solenoid oil seal, both known issues in the forums)

If going big (and in my eyes, that's over £5k, maybe more for others), I'd want to inspect in person. I came a cropper on an MX5 in the early days of eBay in 2002....

Having seen the condition of cars close up at Historics, CCA, Silverstone, SWVA, ACA and Brightwells, I expect some online / telephone buyers are extremely unhappy. I've even seen cars at CCA relisted because the buyer has refused to pay for it, with big corrosion or paint issues not shown. I mentioned this to ACA once because distance buying shot up form 2020 for obvious reasons, and they had avoided showing photos of cars with badly cracked paint on bumpers etc. They were quite apologetic, and I've noticed that they, and other auction houses, now show zoom in close ups of obvious defects in paint, trim or interior.

[williamp]

The virage seemed very cheap at £23k. What was it like??

[phib]

I was bidding on the Fiat 500 and the lancia fulvia, on the face of it if looked like a bargain until the owner popped up of the 500 forum the next day asking for help as he couldn’t get any gears and brake pedal was askew.

I’ve nearly bid … once without seeing and wouldn’t ever do it !

Things are quite often (not always) in an auction for a reason

Phib

[DickyC]

petjam said:

Anyone following this?

I've always had a hankering for a Pagoda but thought they were always a little high.

Now I don't much about them but Historics have sold two today for mid thirties.

Has there been a price correction?

Talking recently about Pagodas in Silchester Garage, the nearest classic Mercedes specialist to me, the lads there told me front wings are currently £4,000 per side.

[Unreal]

phib said:

I was bidding on the Fiat 500 and the lancia fulvia, on the face of it if looked like a bargain until the owner popped up of the 500 forum the next day asking for help as he couldn’t get any gears and brake pedal was askew.

I’ve nearly bid … once without seeing and wouldn’t ever do it !

Things are quite often (not always) in an auction for a reason

Phib

I have a fairly sizeable car collection and attend several classic auctions every year. There is no way I would recommend bidding on a car that you have not seen in the metal or, if you are a novice, have not had inspected by someone knowledgeable. I was at a recent auction to look at a supposedly immaculate TR6 which had sanding marks visible through the paint on every panel. Obvious paintwork is common on cars that are described as 'remarkably original'. Broken, damaged or missing trim components that are not mentioned in the description are also common.

Exaggerated descriptions and omissions are the norm and not the exception and the auctioneers adopt a 'nothing to do with us, guv' approach to post sale problems. People should look at the Collecting Cars reviews. That organisation has a wonderful sales model where their commission is deducted when the virtual hammer falls and if you subsequently find the car to be not as described you will face a vertical, not uphill struggle getting your money back.

There are bargains to be had but you must check the cars out and not trust the online descriptions. Always remember that auctions are widely used as a way of disposing of dodgy cars that would not pass a normal inspection or test drive without some negotiation on the price.

[Venisonpie]

Unreal said:

I have a fairly sizeable car collection and attend several classic auctions every year. There is no way I would recommend bidding on a car that you have not seen in the metal or, if you are a novice, have not had inspected by someone knowledgeable. I was at a recent auction to look at a supposedly immaculate TR6 which had sanding marks visible through the paint on every panel. Obvious paintwork is common on cars that are described as 'remarkably original'. Broken, damaged or missing trim components that are not mentioned in the description are also common.

Exaggerated descriptions and omissions are the norm and not the exception and the auctioneers adopt a 'nothing to do with us, guv' approach to post sale problems. People should look at the Collecting Cars reviews. That organisation has a wonderful sales model where their commission is deducted when the virtual hammer falls and if you subsequently find the car to be not as described you will face a vertical, not uphill struggle getting your money back.

There are bargains to be had but you must check the cars out and not trust the online descriptions. Always remember that auctions are widely used as a way of disposing of dodgy cars that would not pass a normal inspection or test drive without some negotiation on the price.

Amen.

[sixor8]

I recently visited the Pavilion Gardens, Buxton to see the cars in the H+H classic auction on 30th Nov. Every photo in the online catalogue, it appears, has been provided by the sellers. They make no effort to take their own, nor amend the catalogue when they receive the cars the day before the auction. What exactly do they do for their hefty fees? Provide premises and an online platform, whoop...

The problem with these 'event' auction days (Silverstone / CCA, Historics etc) is also that you have to collect the next day or pay storage fees. Brightwells, ACA and SWVA (plus others I expect) have huge premises and you get days, sometimes weeks to not only view the cars but to arrange collection. They also make all their own photos and videos of the vehivles once they have them. Client's photos are replaced with current ones.

But I digress, some, actually most of the cars close up in the H+H auction were really poor. Well, the seller will not show poor bits, will they? That's the auctioneer's responsibility I think, just wiping their hands of issues is a disgrace. An MGC had hundreds of bubbles in the paint (moisture no doubt) but it looked great in the photos, well it would if they were taken at an undetermined time just after the respray had been done! I won't bother with them again. Both MG midgets close up required complete paint jobs, IMHO. At least Historics announced for example, if a vehicle had developed an issue on site. I would buy a car needing work, but only if the reserve / guide price reflects it and you're made aware, honestly, of obvious issues.

[classicaholic]

I have bought a few cars from Auction & ebay without seeing them in person, usually from the US, perhaps I have been lucky as they were all better than expected.

[sixor8]

Me too, especially eBay, but a dud too , it's the risk you take. But these big auction houses are taking whopping fees for providing little extra value, I think. No wonder the likes of Trade Classics, The Market and Evoke Classics are doing well. Some of them charge extra fees to the seller, others the buyer. The auction house charge entry fees AND fees to both, good income if you can do it.

CCA pre-pandemic used to have knocking on 300 cars in their auctions, the next one on 10th Dec has 144.

I think they only really want the top end cars for buyers to not worry about undeclared flaws, they can afford it. 12.5% of 100k on ONE car pays for all the shiny suits. They only pad out the auctions with cheaper cars / fodder for minions like me...

Edited by sixor8 on Saturday 3rd December 22:37

[lowdrag]

here's one ought at auction without seeing the car. A 1961 roadster with hard top and 40,000 kms from new:-






Here are photos of the car when he received it:-







He blew €112,000 buying that car. Rumours were he halved his money.

Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 4th December 14:43

[Notso]

lowdrag said:

here's one ought at auction without seeing the car. A 1961 roadster with hard top and 40,000 kms from new:-

I quite like looking at some of these old vintage cars (probs cos granddad goes on about his old fords and how good they were) but what is that?

It looks a bit like an old Jag but is obvs left hand drive and the roof looks a bit odd and there aren't any badges on it. Is it a kit car of some sort, probs based on a Jag, or something foreign.

[DickyC]

Notso said:

lowdrag said:

here's one ought at auction without seeing the car. A 1961 roadster with hard top and 40,000 kms from new:-

I quite like looking at some of these old vintage cars (probs cos granddad goes on about his old fords and how good they were) but what is that?

It looks a bit like an old Jag but is obvs left hand drive and the roof looks a bit odd and there aren't any badges on it. Is it a kit car of some sort, probs based on a Jag, or something foreign.

No, I think you'll find it's a 1961 E type roadster with a hardtop and 40,000 km from new in worse condition than the buyer thought it was when he bought it.

[sixor8]

I think I've seen that car mentioned before on another thread, it may be this car? The side strip decals seem unique to me. Sold at an auction in Avignon in 2019. It's a screenshot so I can't translate it, my schoolboy French sees them rattling on about the history of the marque and I was surprised to see 'cerise sur le gateau.' Colloquialisms often don't translate but icing on the cake obviously does.

https://www.glenmarch.com/auction-cars/show-backup...

Buyer beware.

[TarquinMX5]

It's clearly the same car, with the usual waffle from the auctioneers about the E-type in general. However, to be fair to them, they do state that it would make a good restoration base and simply looking at that one photo would ring alarm bells for me.

Would I have bid on that, sight unseen? Not a chance.