Lucas, The Prince of Darkness

[saaby93]

https://www.bccwnc.org/lucas-prince-of-darkness-jo...

https://mossmotoring.com/prince-darkness-joseph-lu...

But first, let us get the jokes out of the way to clear out our system for the knowledge to come.

The Lucas corporate motto: “Get home before dark.”
If Lucas made guns, wars would not start.
Lucas holds the patent for the short circuit.
Lucas – Inventor of the intermittent wiper.
Lucas – Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp.
The three position Lucas switch – Dim, Flicker and Off
The Original Anti-Theft Device – Lucas Electrics.
Lucas is an acronym for Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices

[MDMA .]

Have you been on the sauce early?

[dhutch]

Fortunately our car predates Austin switching to Lucas, so we have CAV powered darkness instead!

[Bobupndown]

[gazza285]

MDMA . said:

Have you been on the sauce early?

Is he ever truly sober?

[Pit Pony]

As an ex Lucas Employee, most of the UK businesses still exist.

TRW make electric power steering something that was invented at Lucas Car Braking in Fen End (now owned by Prodrive)

RAYTHEON own parts of Lucas Aerospace having been owned by Goodrich and UTC and Collins and make the controls for the flaps and slats and stuff

Rolls Royce own other parts that make engine controllers, which was owned by Goodrich until UTC bought Goodrich.

Lucas Control Systems Products in Keighley was bought by it's own management, and because NSF controls.

I'm sure it's funny to take the piss but in 1990, it employed thousands and had 77 sites in the UK and as many again across the world.

As you were.

[Riley Blue]

70 year old humour...

[The Mad Monk]

Pit Pony said:

As an ex Lucas Employee, most of the UK businesses still exist.

TRW make electric power steering something that was invented at Lucas Car Braking in Fen End (now owned by Prodrive)

RAYTHEON own parts of Lucas Aerospace having been owned by Goodrich and UTC and Collins and make the controls for the flaps and slats and stuff

Rolls Royce own other parts that make engine controllers, which was owned by Goodrich until UTC bought Goodrich.

Lucas Control Systems Products in Keighley was bought by it's own management, and because NSF controls.

I'm sure it's funny to take the piss but in 1990, it employed thousands and had 77 sites in the UK and as many again across the world.

As you were.

They did all that, but still couldn't afford a book of English grammar.

[saaby93]

The Mad Monk said:

Pit Pony said:

As an ex Lucas Employee, most of the UK businesses still exist.

TRW make electric power steering something that was invented at Lucas Car Braking in Fen End (now owned by Prodrive)

RAYTHEON own parts of Lucas Aerospace having been owned by Goodrich and UTC and Collins and make the controls for the flaps and slats and stuff

Rolls Royce own other parts that make engine controllers, which was owned by Goodrich until UTC bought Goodrich.

Lucas Control Systems Products in Keighley was bought by it's own management, and because NSF controls.

I'm sure it's funny to take the piss but in 1990, it employed thousands and had 77 sites in the UK and as many again across the world.

As you were.

They did all that, but still couldn't afford a book of English grammar.

More likely auto- correct getting twisted.
What happened to the Lucas development site at was it Shirley or Solihull?
They were doing some good stuff with EVs in the 70s that may have been before its time

[gazlar53]

To be fair ‘the Lucas plan’ seemed to be well ahead of its time

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucas_Plan

This would be a very different thread if that had come off

[CharlesdeGaulle]

The Mad Monk said:

They did all that, but still couldn't afford a book of English grammar.

You're very tedious. I suspect I'm not the first to mention it.

[dhutch]

Pit Pony said:

As an ex Lucas Employee, most of the UK businesses still exist.

TRW make electric power steering something that was invented at Lucas Car Braking in Fen End (now owned by Prodrive)
RAYTHEON own parts of Lucas Aerospace having been owned by Goodrich and UTC and Collins and make the controls for the flaps and slats and stuff
Rolls Royce own other parts that make engine controllers, which was owned by Goodrich until UTC bought Goodrich.
Lucas Control Systems Products in Keighley was bought by it's own management, and because NSF controls.

I'm sure it's funny to take the piss but in 1990, it employed thousands and had 77 sites in the UK and as many again across the world.
As you were.

Absolutely.

Lucas was a huge company, and I am sure made a huge amount of good stuff. There was a reason it became so common and the go to supplier for a lot of industries. The original company broadly predates me, but even as a later 80s child, you saw a lot of the name around the place on boxes of automotive parts. If the vast majority of kit is Lucas, it stands to reason that the vast majority of failures will be Lucas kit.

I guess at bit like British Leyland, it all got a bit big, a bit comfortable in its own space, failed to move fast enough to keep up, and then a lot of the consumer side parts of the business then became out of date, and end by selling on the grounds of being cheap, as the only remaining tool in the options list left.

Making it up. But I references CAV lighting on out 1924 Austin, two years later, CAV where bought up be Lucas. Presumably because the latter was doig better.

[2xChevrons]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yeah, I think the almost reprehensible lack of fuses on older British stuff is where a lot of the famous issues with the Prince of Darkness stem from (all the jokes about 'letting the smoke out' and so on) because they were under-fused even by the standards of most other stuff at the time, especially American cars. And of course the British love of a positive-earth electrical system probably didn't help across the Pond, either.

As has been said before, that's not Lucas' problem - Lucas supplied what the manufacturer wanted and was willing to pay for. Lucas could easily have supplied fuse boxes with a fuse for every circuit (and would probably have been glad to do so - imagine the extra income!) but the buyers weren't interested.

The same principle applies to things like the 'infamous' Lucas Petrol Injection system on old Triumphs - Lucas had developed the system for use on aircraft and racing cars, where it was successful and perfectly reliable. It was conceptually a much 'neater' and simpler system than the dreaded Kugelfischer or the Rochester Ramjet. But Lucas gave the customer what they wanted, and Triumph ordered the system with the lowest-capacity (i.e. cheapest) circulating pump that they could get away with, and then made things worse by mounting that pump close to the exhaust, ensuring that the system would be plagued by vapour lock issues. The modern fix of fitting a Bosch circulating pump has nothing to do with the superiority of Bosch over Lucas, just that the Bosch pump in the kit has a much greater capacity. Lucas could have supplied such a pump in the 1960s, but Triumph didn't want to pay for it.

I will say that in my experience of working on old British cars, there does seem to be a dip in reliability of the electrics in the 1970s. That could simply be that these are the cars that are old enough for their wiring looms to degrade but not old enough to have been restored with new looms. It might be that it reflects all the usual production/quality issues that blighted Lucas in the period as they did in almost every British industry of the time. But I think it also has something to do with the industry switch from positive to negative earth systems - on a positive earth system it's the metal of the car's bodywork that corrodes more readily, while on a negative earth system it's the metal in the electrical system, especially electrical connectors, contacts and earthing points, that corrodes. Firms making negative-earth components will allow for this with sturdier components, higher-quality materials and so on. I suspect that Lucas didn't do that, or if they did it was mostly on paper and the quality of the components being sent out suffered due to said industrial malaise. That leads to the dodgy switches, bad earths and occasional enlivening short circuits that can enhance the ownership experience of a 1970s British car in its old age.

[david.h]

Funny how today if you have a "Classic" car from the 50's 60's or even 70's people now go to great lengths to find "GENUINE" Lucas parts because they want Quality!! And now complain bitterly about (whisper it - they may be listening) Chinese rubbish...OK some Lucas was made down to a price, but is now considered a shedload better than some (not all) the stuff now being remanufactured. Some of which you wonder why they bother!

[Yertis]

The problems with the Lucas PI pump weren’t so much down to it being mounted by the exhaust (I’ve not heard that before - it’s up in the boot). The problems were more to do with the pump being asked to produce a reliable 110psi when powered by a wiper motor. The motor runs hot, especially when a bit tired, and the heat conducts into the body of the pump. Put that together with warm fuel, on a warm day, in a hot boot and “wheeeeee!” - cavitation and diversion to the road-side. Must be even worse with more volatile modern fuel. PI also has multiple other points of failure - variius runnervpipes to degrade and leak air and upset the mixture, leaky injectors causing misfires, etc. But if it’s well maintained it works well. The correct-spec ‘Bosch’ pump is the key to reliable operation though.

[dandarez]

My 67 classic still has its original dated/stamped Lucas dynamo! I like originality.

Talking of pos and neg earthing and rotting metal and conductivity, what about us poor sods who had/have glassfibre (GRP) cars as well?

Little tale of lights out roughly 41 yrs ago so from my fading memory.

Even though it was a 1972 (to be precise) model my then GRP car had far more than 2 measly fuses in its fuse box.
Plus an additional fuse box added by me - why? It needed another as I'd fitted just about every extra conceivable to it.
It was 'the thing' back then.

Driving back home one late evening I'd done roughly 100 miles (it was now around 2am in the morning) and at this point was 'bombing along' (as we used to say) some miles of unlit countryside lanes, my recently fitted new halogen Wipac Quadoptics (think that's what they were called? replacing the old sealed beam units), on full beam.

Bloody hell, did I just blink or did my lights really go out?
Nah, must have imagined it, long day.
Then they really went out! Oh ste!

No mobile phones back then to call for help. Middle of nowhere, what to do? Panic!
Fumble for the motorist's then best friend, carry type 'torch', oh ste, not behind seat.
This was now not funny in the middle of nowhere, with high sided verges meaning I couldn't pull off and could see bugger all, even though the moon was shining in out of the clouds.

Calm down I thought (ha ha), at least the engine is still running and purring. Deep breath, I flick the light switch up and down...
WTF? headlights are back on! Phew!

I think I then flicked the lh indicator up, just instinct in case some car did come airing up behind. Oh gawd, out went the headlamps again.
I drive a little forward because at least I'd know if anyone was coming from 'their' lights. Got a bit up the verge, but still in midst of a slight panic, I tell myself again, to calm down, be logical... oh gawd my 'hazards' (I think that was another added 'extra back then?) they should be on, will they work? Yep.
Hang on, the speedo and rev counter are illuminated, perhaps it is just the headlamps? Quickly try other stuff...
Blower, yep. Wipers, yep. WTF was going on? Rummage through my bag again, ahh this might help, trusty ol' circuit tester, if I can touch a 'live', the lead is long and I might get a bit of light to 'see' under the dash at get at the fuseboxes. I can.

Feet hanging out driver's door (6ft 1inl) now led on my back looking under the dash, I take the cover off the orig fitted Lucas black plastic fuse box under left side of the dash, pull one fuse out (see through type) it's fine, next one not so fine, showed signs of burn/overload and 'making and breaking' probably when lights were on - box of spare fuses in bag, along with the then obligatory usuals, condensors, points etc. Fitted a replacement fuse, switched the headlamps and main beam back on...

Bingo! 'Homeward Bound' as S&G once sung.

Edited by dandarez on Tuesday 16th August 23:20