Are cars less characterful than they used to be?

[Turbobanana]

I can't believe this day has come, but after 22 years of ownership I am saying goodbye to my Saab Convertible - a sad day.

When I bought it, the Twin Towers were still standing, Tony Blair was PM and petrol was 76.9p / litre.

The truth is, I've kind of fallen out of love with it, and it's going to a lovely guy who I know will enjoy it for years to come. I'm trying to keep myself cheerful by considering what to buy next, but it's presented me with a realisation that cars have got a bit dull. Consider this, PH friends:

In July 2000, I bought a 1991 registered Saab Convertible - so in round figures it was about 10 years old at the time. Apply the same delta to car ages now and I'm looking at cars registered around 2011 / 2012. I paid roughly 30% of the car's new list price when I bought it. Without sounding too camp, what drew me to the car was its sense of glamour: its fabulous-ness, if you will. The X-Factor: you know, the thing that makes you go "wow - look at that".

My question is this: is there anything from around 10 years ago that is available now for about £10-15,000 that has the same effect?

My inclination at the moment is towards something like a 986 Boxster, Lotus Excel, Alfa Spider or Caterham. A disparate bunch, sure, but did you notice that they're all a bit older? Is that a product of increased prices or a lack of characterful newer cars? I can't think of anything newer that I "want".

Thoughts (and condolences) welcome...

[Chunkychucky]

As someone who had the mispleasure of driving a 2 year old Skoda Fabia with a (1.2 litre?) naturally aspirated 3 cylinder lump, i'd have to concur. The throttle pedal seemed to be linked to the throttle body via some string and 2 old cans, the brake pedal did nothing for the first 10% of its travel then tried ejecting you through the windscreen, and generally all the control weights were that overdamped/'stodgy' that driving a Defender 90 would have honestly been more fun.

As the antidote, although somewhat outside of your 10 year criteria, i'd be going for something light/mid-engined, ie. Vauxhall VX220/Lotus Elise/Toyota MR2 (budget dependant). Had a brief drive of a Mk 3 MR2 a couple of months ago and it was the most fun i'd had in a car for a while - not as cheap as they once were, but something I would choose over any of the modern hot/super hatchback brigade as a device for driving.

[bigandclever]

Leggy BMW Z4
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206036...

Box of frogs Lancer EVO X FQ-300
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202112...

Diesel, but still, Alpina D3
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109247...

BMW 650i convertible
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206046...

[Om]

How about a 370Z? it was old when it was new and definitely has the feel of a car from an earlier time (in a good way).

It will also last like the Saab if looked after.

Also, you are right - newer cars are less characterful generally.

[Turbobanana]

Chunkychucky said:

As someone who had the mispleasure of driving a 2 year old Skoda Fabia with a (1.2 litre?) naturally aspirated 3 cylinder lump, i'd have to concur. The throttle pedal seemed to be linked to the throttle body via some string and 2 old cans, the brake pedal did nothing for the first 10% of its travel then tried ejecting you through the windscreen, and generally all the control weights were that overdamped/'stodgy' that driving a Defender 90 would have honestly been more fun.

As the antidote, although somewhat outside of your 10 year criteria, i'd be going for something light/mid-engined, ie. Vauxhall VX220/Lotus Elise/Toyota MR2 (budget dependant). Had a brief drive of a Mk 3 MR2 a couple of months ago and it was the most fun i'd had in a car for a while - not as cheap as they once were, but something I would choose over any of the modern hot/super hatchback brigade as a device for driving.

I'd thought about the MR2 but it would have to be a MkII, as the later ones are about as appealing to me as a No 10 drinks party (even though I know they drive well).

[Turbobanana]

bigandclever said:

Leggy BMW Z4
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206036...

Box of frogs Lancer EVO X FQ-300
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202112...

Diesel, but still, Alpina D3
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109247...

BMW 650i convertible
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206046...

Thanks for the suggestions b&c: the Z4 was another I've looked at - seem good value. 650 is too big (the Saab is very long, filling the length of a standard garage, so something smaller would be great and give me some storage back).

Lancers, Imprezas and 3-Series do nothing for me, I'm afraid.

[Turbobanana]

Om said:

How about a 370Z? it was old when it was new and definitely has the feel of a car from an earlier time (in a good way).

It will also last like the Saab if looked after.

Also, you are right - newer cars are less characterful generally.

350 / 370Z not a bad call, om - hadn't really thought of them.

[aeropilot]

Turbobanana said:

I can't believe this day has come, but after 22 years of ownership I am saying goodbye to my Saab Convertible - a sad day.

When I bought it, the Twin Towers were still standing, Tony Blair was PM and petrol was 76.9p / litre.

The truth is, I've kind of fallen out of love with it, and it's going to a lovely guy who I know will enjoy it for years to come. I'm trying to keep myself cheerful by considering what to buy next, but it's presented me with a realisation that cars have got a bit dull. Consider this, PH friends:

In July 2000, I bought a 1991 registered Saab Convertible - so in round figures it was about 10 years old at the time. Apply the same delta to car ages now and I'm looking at cars registered around 2011 / 2012. I paid roughly 30% of the car's new list price when I bought it. Without sounding too camp, what drew me to the car was its sense of glamour: its fabulous-ness, if you will. The X-Factor: you know, the thing that makes you go "wow - look at that".

My question is this: is there anything from around 10 years ago that is available now for about £10-15,000 that has the same effect?

My inclination at the moment is towards something like a 986 Boxster, Lotus Excel, Alfa Spider or Caterham. A disparate bunch, sure, but did you notice that they're all a bit older? Is that a product of increased prices or a lack of characterful newer cars? I can't think of anything newer that I "want".

Thoughts (and condolences) welcome...

22 years.......I understand the falling out of love with it.
I owned my Sunbeam-Lotus from 1988 to 2005 and I had sort of fallen out of love with it in the last few years. It was more the case I just wasn't using it much anymore, and the parts availability issues by then were a concern, plus my missus never really liked it. Funnily enough she did the same thing to me about 6 months after I sold it.....hey ho!

I can't offer any thought about going newer I'm afraid, as there is nothing made after 2000 that I would consider owning (for the reasons you already state) let alone 2010 or newer.......as they are all just too complicated white goods A to B transport as far as I'm concerned.

I think you need to go for something much older than the Saab was if you are really after something with character.

[LuS1fer]

I've had lots of cars over 40 years and, despite being 63, this month, my favourite daily would still be my Mk 7 Fiesta ST ( one Mountune in my case), which gives you your garage space and character.

More left field and hand drive is a 2005-14 Mustang. Always characterful yet still cheap to run. If you're lucky, you might find a Corvette C5.

[Dapster]

Cars are so well developed now that even something 10 years old would feel thoroughly modern and would have no kind of old school charm whatsoever.

If I wanted a reasonably modern car to get up early on a Sunday to drive, or have a nice touring weekend away with the boss, it would be a Boxster. For £15k, you can get a nice 987S with the 3.4 engine, 6 speed manual and a good spec.

Alternatively, if you want something a bit more raw, then an S1 Elise with a sports exhaust would be a good shout (but that would be 20 years old).

Golf R32 for something more conventional?

If it was me, I might be going to have a look at something like this - sports seats, low miles, manual, decent history albeit, over 20 years old.



https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205236...

Turbobanana said:

.....towards something like a 986 Boxster, Lotus Excel, Alfa Spider or Caterham......

I've had 2 Boxsters (a 986 2.7 and a later 987 3.2) and a Caterham (1.8 K series supersport). They are all fantastic cars and if you get a good one of either you won't regret it. However whilst the Caterham is a sizzling drive, the Briitsh weather will seriously curtail your ability to use it. You can use the Boxster every day of the week and take it to work when it's snowing. However even the slightest drop of rain will ruin the fun in the Caterham - not only will you be all over the road, you'll have a wet lap and freezing ears as well. It really is for the committed and it is a bit depressing to sink money into one and watch rain stop play every weekend. Having said that, they are remarkably cheap to run (cheap maintenance and minimal depreciation) and the driving experience is second to none.

Edited by Dapster on Tuesday 7th June 12:07

[Ozzer2006]

Been driving over 40 years and have had cars ranging from v12 jaguars to bmw 2002ti. The car with the most character is the first generation bmw Mini Cooper s especially in John Cooper work form. Good club scene. Reliable (ish) and the whine of that supercharger make for great fun. Becoming very very collectable too

Edited by Ozzer2006 on Tuesday 7th June 12:11

[shih tzu faced]

Might be a bit too new and I haven’t checked prices lately but a Fiat 124 Spider might be a good choice. Either that or the MX5 that it’s based on?

[Fink-Nottle]

The only fabulous car I can think of from this era in this price range is the Maserati 3200. In the metal they are irresistible, as low as a 997 but voluptuous and elegant.

If it must be a convertible, there's the 4200 Spyder, but that no longer comes with the boomerangs, a disaster design decision for which Frank Stephenson has claimed responsibility.

But if a 6-series is too big, then I guess so are the Maseratis.

[sjc]

Turbobanana said:

I can't believe this day has come, but after 22 years of ownership I am saying goodbye to my Saab Convertible - a sad day.

When I bought it, the Twin Towers were still standing, Tony Blair was PM and petrol was 76.9p / litre.

The truth is, I've kind of fallen out of love with it, and it's going to a lovely guy who I know will enjoy it for years to come. I'm trying to keep myself cheerful by considering what to buy next, but it's presented me with a realisation that cars have got a bit dull. Consider this, PH friends:

In July 2000, I bought a 1991 registered Saab Convertible - so in round figures it was about 10 years old at the time. Apply the same delta to car ages now and I'm looking at cars registered around 2011 / 2012. I paid roughly 30% of the car's new list price when I bought it. Without sounding too camp, what drew me to the car was its sense of glamour: its fabulous-ness, if you will. The X-Factor: you know, the thing that makes you go "wow - look at that".

My question is this: is there anything from around 10 years ago that is available now for about £10-15,000 that has the same effect?

My inclination at the moment is towards something like a 986 Boxster, Lotus Excel, Alfa Spider or Caterham. A disparate bunch, sure, but did you notice that they're all a bit older? Is that a product of increased prices or a lack of characterful newer cars? I can't think of anything newer that I "want".

Thoughts (and condolences) welcome...

How about this, a bit older but nice engine/ convertible and a nice place to be..

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12957668

[PositronicRay]

Im in a similar situation after having sold a 94 Merc SL. I've also lost enthusiasm for climbing underneath cars.

Slightly different criteria though.
4 seater
Live un-garaged on a drive
Capable of everyday use
Capable of wafting across France
Convertible but preferably not a softtop.
Preferably lowish RFL
Up to £5-10k

So far I've only come up with a rather unglamorous Volvo C70

[Rotary Potato]

I have had a Porsche 986 Boxster S as my only car since 2019.

It cost me just over £5k and does all the boring stuff well ... I use it at all times of year, to do everything from nip to the supermarket for the weekly shop, to take the dog places, to shlep hours down the motorway to visit friends. It also makes you feel special every time you drop the roof and find a quieter bit of backroad to enjoy.

The other week I had to get a 10 foot ladder to a friend across town. Fortunately it wasn't raining ... so dropped the roof and popped it in the passenger side! Got a few odd looks, but it did the job.

I can't think of anything I'd rather have - even if I doubled my budget.

It's a genuinely good (not great ... but good) sports car, but not so compromised that it can't also be a genuinely good (again ... not great) everyday car too.

[lornemalvo]

It's difficult both to compare prices, because current prices are off the scale, and to find something as individualistic as a Saab. Perhaps it would be useful to know that one theory that used to do the rounds was that Saabs were often driven by architects. The same has been said about the Audi TT, so perhaps an early good one as an investment or a later one as they are reputedly a better drive. On a practical level you are unlikely to replicate the comfort level of those Saab seats.

[lornemalvo]

As an afterthought, if you're not bothered about a convertible, would a new Saab fit the bill? I love the shape of the last Saab 9-5, I think it's a stunning car. Not sure what parts availability is like on Saabs now?

[aeropilot]

lornemalvo said:

Perhaps it would be useful to know that one theory that used to do the rounds was that Saabs were often driven by architects.

Load of old ballcocks that was.

I did actually know of one architect in the early 80's that owned a 900.

But later on in all the 15+ years I owned various Saabs (and working in the construction industry alongside architects) that was the only one. Never knew one via any of the Saab forums either over that time.

Don't believe everything Clarkson says....in fact you shouldn't believe anything he says

Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 7th June 15:29

[Rotary Potato]

PositronicRay said:

Im in a similar situation after having sold a 94 Merc SL. I've also lost enthusiasm for climbing underneath cars.

Slightly different criteria though.
4 seater
Live un-garaged on a drive
Capable of everyday use
Capable of wafting across France
Convertible but preferably not a softtop.
Preferably lowish RFL
Up to £5-10k

So far I've only come up with a rather unglamorous Volvo C70

Peugeot 307CC

...
...
...

Not actually a serious suggestion!