ULEZ to be expanded to cover all London Boroughs from 2023
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60608...
So, anybody else caught in the modern classic trap of a car less than 40 years old but not Euro 4 compliant? Seems to me, anything between 1982 and early 2000s will be in this situation. My 1990 Saab 900 has 8 years to go... I barely use it, and only to get out of London (who would drive there by choice?). Can't help feeling that having to pay £12.50 before I get to the end of the road will leave such a bad taste in my mouth that I'll stop driving it altogether
So, anybody else caught in the modern classic trap of a car less than 40 years old but not Euro 4 compliant? Seems to me, anything between 1982 and early 2000s will be in this situation. My 1990 Saab 900 has 8 years to go... I barely use it, and only to get out of London (who would drive there by choice?). Can't help feeling that having to pay £12.50 before I get to the end of the road will leave such a bad taste in my mouth that I'll stop driving it altogether
I will be effected by this, 1990 sierra owner, that i use occasionally on nice days.
Not sure how this wont happen and what can be done to prevent it. The camera systems already been in place for years ( lorry lez ) so no real expenses in implementing it for cars.
Can older no complaint cars be made to comply? Only ask as I see a 1994 bmw M3 advertised as ulez complaint, checked it on the gov website and it is? Reg L873OGY to check for yourselves...
Not sure how this wont happen and what can be done to prevent it. The camera systems already been in place for years ( lorry lez ) so no real expenses in implementing it for cars.
Can older no complaint cars be made to comply? Only ask as I see a 1994 bmw M3 advertised as ulez complaint, checked it on the gov website and it is? Reg L873OGY to check for yourselves...
NiceCupOfTea said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60608...
So, anybody else caught in the modern classic trap of a car less than 40 years old but not Euro 4 compliant? Seems to me, anything between 1982 and early 2000s will be in this situation. My 1990 Saab 900 has 8 years to go... I barely use it, and only to get out of London (who would drive there by choice?). Can't help feeling that having to pay £12.50 before I get to the end of the road will leave such a bad taste in my mouth that I'll stop driving it altogether
So, anybody else caught in the modern classic trap of a car less than 40 years old but not Euro 4 compliant? Seems to me, anything between 1982 and early 2000s will be in this situation. My 1990 Saab 900 has 8 years to go... I barely use it, and only to get out of London (who would drive there by choice?). Can't help feeling that having to pay £12.50 before I get to the end of the road will leave such a bad taste in my mouth that I'll stop driving it altogether
Sadiq Khan said:
"This is also a matter of social justice - with air pollution hitting the poorest communities the hardest.
Not wanting to make any sort of political comment here, but this is a difficult balancing act. While the poorest communities are impacted most by poor air quality, they are also the community most likely to be driving a non compliant car as their only choice of vehicle. The rules apply to pre-2006 petrol cars and pre-2015 diesels, I wonder how many people get caught out by these changes and need to replace their cars. It wasn't that long ago that governments were pushing diesels due to their reduced CO2 emissions despite warning from scientist that CO2 wasn't the only s
t that comes out of the tail pipe.This won't impact me much. I don't live in London. My only reason for driving their disappeared late last year when my mother died and I've a compliant car if I don't need to get a 90 year old into it. If I ever get my X300 back on the road I'll just have to avoid London, but that's always a good thing in my book when it comes to driving.
Yeah, my 1995 Chimaera 500 is already in the ULEZ zone. It hasn't been driven since this all came in, but I'm missing it and hope to get it back on the road in the next few weeks.
Will have to be selective on trips now what with £12.50 added onto the soaring fuel prices. Saw £1.58.9 a litre the other day.
Will have to be selective on trips now what with £12.50 added onto the soaring fuel prices. Saw £1.58.9 a litre the other day.
I have been particularly lucky by owning a 1997 BMW 840Ci which happens to be ULEZ compliant.
however, this has totally ruined my plans of purchasing another e34.
Which means demand will be slightly down for classics which arent garage queens and are in a state to be daily driven but no longer can in London.
The family diesel Touran battle wagon will also have to go.
Not great news
however, this has totally ruined my plans of purchasing another e34.
Which means demand will be slightly down for classics which arent garage queens and are in a state to be daily driven but no longer can in London.
The family diesel Touran battle wagon will also have to go.
Not great news
vixen1700 said:
Yeah, my 1995 Chimaera 500 is already in the ULEZ zone. It hasn't been driven since this all came in, but I'm missing it and hope to get it back on the road in the next few weeks.
Will have to be selective on trips now what with £12.50 added onto the soaring fuel prices. Saw £1.58.9 a litre the other day.
It’ll end up we trailer cars to outside of Zones to go for a drive Will have to be selective on trips now what with £12.50 added onto the soaring fuel prices. Saw £1.58.9 a litre the other day.
FilH said:
Can older no complaint cars be made to comply? Only ask as I see a 1994 bmw M3 advertised as ulez complaint, checked it on the gov website and it is? Reg L873OGY to check for yourselves...
If memory serves, loads of people got fined for entering a ULEZ in a non compliant vehicle that the Gov website says it was but it was a mistake. I don't know what corrective action was taken towards this, or how many errors still occur. It could well result in a good number of retro cars being sold cheap out of London though.I suppose after the last expansion it was only a matter of time before it was expanded to all London Boroughs, but I didn't expect it to happen quite this soon!
Luckily both my mid 2000s cars are compliant and I don't go there if I can avoid it, but have to enter the outer edges now and again as my sister lives in Sutton.
Luckily both my mid 2000s cars are compliant and I don't go there if I can avoid it, but have to enter the outer edges now and again as my sister lives in Sutton.
I'm fine but feel for my brother/parents.
They're in Orpington (so right on the edge) and have a E90 318d which is obviously non-compliant. The car is only used for work (i10 for day-to-day), driving straight out of town and straight onto the motorway for work, doing 80-250 mile trips once or twice a week. Without it they are stuffed. It's currently working toward 200k, battlescarred, ruined inside from dogs but running.
They don't have 2 pennies to run together and will be bent over by this.
They're in Orpington (so right on the edge) and have a E90 318d which is obviously non-compliant. The car is only used for work (i10 for day-to-day), driving straight out of town and straight onto the motorway for work, doing 80-250 mile trips once or twice a week. Without it they are stuffed. It's currently working toward 200k, battlescarred, ruined inside from dogs but running.
They don't have 2 pennies to run together and will be bent over by this.
untakenname said:
Dependent on where they live in Orpington they may be able to make it to Hewitt's road and onto the M25 that way and avoid the current ULEZ camera's on the A21 and Court road.
I wonder what this is going to do to the prices of modern classics?
Fair point, taking the lanes to there could work, just the getting across the high street to worry aboutI wonder what this is going to do to the prices of modern classics?
Well, that's another tranche of good value diesels for those of us out in the boondocks.
Seem inevitable this will continue spreading to other cities, then perhaps whole areas.
Then of course when air quality doesn't improve much, we will get Zero Emission Zones which will then expand in similar patterns.
Meanwhile, due to the rising gas prices, log burner and coal fire sales in the 'burbs are no doubt booming.
But the chattering classes equate 'air quality' to 'cars'.
The sting in the tail might turn out to be when MOT tests make a serious stab at checking the emissions of notionally 'Euro 4' and 'Euro 6' cars.
It's all really offputting, if you were thinking of spending actual money on a nice used car.
Seem inevitable this will continue spreading to other cities, then perhaps whole areas.
Then of course when air quality doesn't improve much, we will get Zero Emission Zones which will then expand in similar patterns.
Meanwhile, due to the rising gas prices, log burner and coal fire sales in the 'burbs are no doubt booming.
But the chattering classes equate 'air quality' to 'cars'.
The sting in the tail might turn out to be when MOT tests make a serious stab at checking the emissions of notionally 'Euro 4' and 'Euro 6' cars.
It's all really offputting, if you were thinking of spending actual money on a nice used car.
I was reading about this. This is going to cause problems all around, I have family in Epsom but I live in Sutton, So potentially they will have to pay £12.50 to visit 2 miles down the road, (elderly so they are not walking or bussing). Also, my parents will not be in a position to replace the car they own, so they'll be tied to where they live. Just the start of what's long been touted, 15 minute Cities, where you can walk to anything you want within 15 minutes and no need to leave the area. Shocking idea
Nail in the coffin for a lot of towns 2, elderly relatives regularly shop in Sutton and Kingston, This will 100% stop.
Time for me to move away, something I've been thinking about for a little while, just moves up the timeline, this I feel is the first step to zero emissions in London boroughs.
This is made even worse when I read a couple of years ago the main contributor to inner London pollution is down to Heating / Building and F'all to do with vehicles.
I'm out ...
Nail in the coffin for a lot of towns 2, elderly relatives regularly shop in Sutton and Kingston, This will 100% stop.
Time for me to move away, something I've been thinking about for a little while, just moves up the timeline, this I feel is the first step to zero emissions in London boroughs.
This is made even worse when I read a couple of years ago the main contributor to inner London pollution is down to Heating / Building and F'all to do with vehicles.
I'm out ...
I guess if you live in London, have a valuable modern classic in your garage, then paying £12.50 for the few times you take it out isn't going to change anything in the grand scheme of things ? (ok I'm making assumptions the profile of a classic car owner isn't short of spare cash to pursue their hobby)
If its your daily, then the scenario changes.
I'm all for clean air quality, we all benefit. But with older cars getting naturally scrapped as they wear out and newer cleaner cars filing the roads, this car pollution problem will eventually sort it self out without intervention?
So I just see this as a "last chance" tax grab on those who cant afford a new car.
If its your daily, then the scenario changes.
I'm all for clean air quality, we all benefit. But with older cars getting naturally scrapped as they wear out and newer cleaner cars filing the roads, this car pollution problem will eventually sort it self out without intervention?
So I just see this as a "last chance" tax grab on those who cant afford a new car.
Gonna cost me 12.50 every time I take the TVR out. I'm one street outside the South Circular.
My other two cars are compliant, but just; any strengthening from Euro 4 would see them out as well.
Shame, as there are a whole load of interesting 90s cars I would love to try but never will.
My other two cars are compliant, but just; any strengthening from Euro 4 would see them out as well.
Shame, as there are a whole load of interesting 90s cars I would love to try but never will.
pcn1 said:
I guess if you live in London, have a valuable modern classic in your garage, then paying £12.50 for the few times you take it out isn't going to change anything in the grand scheme of things ? (ok I'm making assumptions the profile of a classic car owner isn't short of spare cash to pursue their hobby)
If its your daily, then the scenario changes.
I'm all for clean air quality, we all benefit. But with older cars getting naturally scrapped as they wear out and newer cleaner cars filing the roads, this car pollution problem will eventually sort it self out without intervention?
So I just see this as a "last chance" tax grab on those who cant afford a new car.
The ridiculous thing is that the modern classic owner is a vanishingly small contributor to pollution - I've done only a few hundred miles in the last couple of years - yet based on "days that I have used it" I would have paid hundreds. It makes no sense, and will have a big impact on how I use it. At the moment it will be very difficult to stomach. I certainly don't have "spare cash" to throw at going for a Sunday morning pootle in the Kent lanes (about 10 miles of which (tops) would be within the zone).If its your daily, then the scenario changes.
I'm all for clean air quality, we all benefit. But with older cars getting naturally scrapped as they wear out and newer cleaner cars filing the roads, this car pollution problem will eventually sort it self out without intervention?
So I just see this as a "last chance" tax grab on those who cant afford a new car.
Euro 4 is primarily about reducing NOx (I believe). I heard for many cars made around 2000-5 you can get a Certificate of Conformity which details all the emissions and use that to get an exemption. A 2001 non-cable Porsche 996 can be registered like this, for example. I am still investigating. I live just outside the North Circular and every car I own is caught in this 1982-2005 bracket.
And, of course, once the zone is enlarged out to cover the whole city the next step is to move up to the next EURO category as the minimum allowed in the zone, so if you can only afford to get a car that only just meets the current regs you'll have to upgrade again.
Outer London boroughs seem to be the worst of all worlds, all the city restrictions and rules, but no better access to the city centre than those of us slightly further out in the Home Counties.
Outer London boroughs seem to be the worst of all worlds, all the city restrictions and rules, but no better access to the city centre than those of us slightly further out in the Home Counties.
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