South African imports
Discussion
sixor8 said:
It's been happening for years, not particularly a recent phenomenon. I've seen quite a few at classic car auctions over the years; being right hand drive and 'mostly' free of rust is the main advantage. And more people, these days are willing to accept speedometers in km.
Indeed, I remember seeing SA imports coming in back in the 90's.The 'mostly' rust-free is amusing, as it all depends where they lived in SA. A lot of people assume they will be like California cars and rust free because of the climate, but that is far from being the case for old cars that lived all their lives in some of the big coastal cities, especially Durban, with it's humid climate, and salt drenched air from the waves being blown in off the Indian Ocean.
I've seen some right rust bucket ex-SA cars that have been imported and left new owners feeling hugely deflated.
I was taken out to Johannesburg in the late 80s by one of my customers who had heard all sorts of rumours about loads of interesting cars at amazingly low prices. What we found was loads of cars mostly terribly bodged, some to the point of being dangerous and fit only for scrapping, prices comparable to Europe because they all read Classic and Thoroughbred, Classic Cars, Motorsport etc etc and they thought that if the car looked shiny that's what it was worth, never mind the rippling panels, the modest cloud of blue smoke and so on. We had gone for three days with a view to buying as many interesting cars as my customer's very deep pockets would run to but we abandoned after the first day of endless rubbish. Things may have improved since then but I would be very careful before wasting money on the air fare!!
Mike-tf3n0 said:
I was taken out to Johannesburg in the late 80s by one of my customers who had heard all sorts of rumours about loads of interesting cars at amazingly low prices. What we found was loads of cars mostly terribly bodged, some to the point of being dangerous and fit only for scrapping, prices comparable to Europe because they all read Classic and Thoroughbred, Classic Cars, Motorsport etc etc and they thought that if the car looked shiny that's what it was worth, never mind the rippling panels, the modest cloud of blue smoke and so on. We had gone for three days with a view to buying as many interesting cars as my customer's very deep pockets would run to but we abandoned after the first day of endless rubbish. Things may have improved since then but I would be very careful before wasting money on the air fare!!
As an ex South African "this" . There is nothing like a yearly MOT in SA and cars from the coast rot just the same as here. There are some excellent restorers but lots of cowboys with limited skills . Prices are in general as per here in the UK factoring in transport and import duties. So many classic cars have been exported due to immigration that what's left is rare and coveted as import duties largely preclude the import of classic cars. Some here may recall my tale of woe following my proposed import fro S.A. Buying through a S. A.
based dealership was a lovely camper van, a VW based ‘jurgens’, rare in this. ountry. Long story short, it was a scam, ‘dealer’ didn’t exist. Be on guard!! I doubled down on my homework and discovered a couple of paperwork oddities.
based dealership was a lovely camper van, a VW based ‘jurgens’, rare in this. ountry. Long story short, it was a scam, ‘dealer’ didn’t exist. Be on guard!! I doubled down on my homework and discovered a couple of paperwork oddities.
There are quite a lot of Alfa 105's which have come in from South Africa, some are pretty good, but the majority have been very poorly repaired in the past and take a lot of work to get back to where they ought to be. As mentioned above, not all state in the RSA are dry, some have an appalling climate for a car.
Many of the Alfa's were built in SA from kits sent out from Italy and had some unusual details from the start.
Many of the Alfa's were built in SA from kits sent out from Italy and had some unusual details from the start.
sixor8 said:
Yes, that was why the quotation marks. 
I saw a couple of Alfa Romeos re-imported from SA at auction in 2019, not much better than European condition-wise. You get some interesting Ford derivatives that weren't produced here though, like the XR8, 5.0 litre V8 Sierra anyone?
I remember the XR8 very well !! When I lived in Sheffield many years back a friend of mine had one (I believe there were only about 3 in the UK at that point in time). A very unassuming and understated white 5-door Sierra....until you started it up. That was the point at which you realised it wasn't just a-n-other typical Sierra.I saw a couple of Alfa Romeos re-imported from SA at auction in 2019, not much better than European condition-wise. You get some interesting Ford derivatives that weren't produced here though, like the XR8, 5.0 litre V8 Sierra anyone?
sixor8 said:
Yes, that was why the quotation marks.
I saw a couple of Alfa Romeos re-imported from SA at auction in 2019, not much better than European condition-wise. You get some interesting Ford derivatives that weren't produced here though, like the XR8, 5.0 litre V8 Sierra anyone?
I remember the XR8 very well !! When I lived in Sheffield many years back a friend of mine had one (I believe there were only about 3 in the UK at that point in time). A very unassuming and understated white 5-door Sierra....until you started it up. That was the point at which you realised it wasn't just a-n-other typical Sierra.I saw a couple of Alfa Romeos re-imported from SA at auction in 2019, not much better than European condition-wise. You get some interesting Ford derivatives that weren't produced here though, like the XR8, 5.0 litre V8 Sierra anyone?
velocemitch said:
There are quite a lot of Alfa 105's which have come in from South Africa, some are pretty good, but the majority have been very poorly repaired in the past and take a lot of work to get back to where they ought to be. As mentioned above, not all state in the RSA are dry, some have an appalling climate for a car.
Many of the Alfa's were built in SA from kits sent out from Italy and had some unusual details from the start.
Weren't the RHD S1 Spiders built in SA and not at Pininfarina, Italy, so probably those kits you mention? Many of the Alfa's were built in SA from kits sent out from Italy and had some unusual details from the start.
My RHD Duetto came from South Africa in the early 2000's. It was in good condition with matching numbers (according to Alfa Archives) and had been well looked after. It had originally been supplied to Bermuda, but somehow found its way to Africa at some point.
But yes, there are a lot of bodgers out there who have are (or have) exploited the export market.
Jethro Bronner covers tis in one of his restoration videos.
aeropilot said:
sixor8 said:
It's been happening for years, not particularly a recent phenomenon. I've seen quite a few at classic car auctions over the years; being right hand drive and 'mostly' free of rust is the main advantage. And more people, these days are willing to accept speedometers in km.
Indeed, I remember seeing SA imports coming in back in the 90's.The 'mostly' rust-free is amusing, as it all depends where they lived in SA. A lot of people assume they will be like California cars and rust free because of the climate, but that is far from being the case for old cars that lived all their lives in some of the big coastal cities, especially Durban, with it's humid climate, and salt drenched air from the waves being blown in off the Indian Ocean.
I've seen some right rust bucket ex-SA cars that have been imported and left new owners feeling hugely deflated.
Edited by Harji on Monday 17th January 11:15
A car from any coastal city in SA is likely to have rust issues, as most of the coastal cities (particularly east of Cape Town) tend to be humid, and the humidity increases as you head up the coast to Durban and beyond.
Additionally, most 70's and 80's cars were not rust proofed from the factory (VW did factory rustproofing from the mid 80's or so) - and many vehicles bought inland were never ever rustproofed.
Cars bought in coastal regions were typically treated to aftermarket rust proofing, much of which could be a bit 'hit and miss'.
Back in '81 my dad bought a brand new Nissan 'bakkie' (pickup truck) and it was extensively rust proofed - however barely 3 years later the rot was setting in.
Back in the 80's I also remember seeing 18 month old Toyotas with rust emanating from the body seams (Toyotas are built in Durban hence very humid climate).
And as others have said - bodgery was (still is?) rife. I have seen many 'cut and shut' specials in my time too.
There were loads of interesting models specific to the local market though. BMW produced a few specials over the years, as did Alfa and Datsun / Nissan.
So the advice to anyone looking to import a classic from SA is to tread carefully!!! (as others have said)
Additionally, most 70's and 80's cars were not rust proofed from the factory (VW did factory rustproofing from the mid 80's or so) - and many vehicles bought inland were never ever rustproofed.
Cars bought in coastal regions were typically treated to aftermarket rust proofing, much of which could be a bit 'hit and miss'.
Back in '81 my dad bought a brand new Nissan 'bakkie' (pickup truck) and it was extensively rust proofed - however barely 3 years later the rot was setting in.
Back in the 80's I also remember seeing 18 month old Toyotas with rust emanating from the body seams (Toyotas are built in Durban hence very humid climate).
And as others have said - bodgery was (still is?) rife. I have seen many 'cut and shut' specials in my time too.
There were loads of interesting models specific to the local market though. BMW produced a few specials over the years, as did Alfa and Datsun / Nissan.
So the advice to anyone looking to import a classic from SA is to tread carefully!!! (as others have said)
Castrol for a knave said:
velocemitch said:
There are quite a lot of Alfa 105's which have come in from South Africa, some are pretty good, but the majority have been very poorly repaired in the past and take a lot of work to get back to where they ought to be. As mentioned above, not all state in the RSA are dry, some have an appalling climate for a car.
Many of the Alfa's were built in SA from kits sent out from Italy and had some unusual details from the start.
Weren't the RHD S1 Spiders built in SA and not at Pininfarina, Italy, so probably those kits you mention? Many of the Alfa's were built in SA from kits sent out from Italy and had some unusual details from the start.
My RHD Duetto came from South Africa in the early 2000's. It was in good condition with matching numbers (according to Alfa Archives) and had been well looked after. It had originally been supplied to Bermuda, but somehow found its way to Africa at some point.
But yes, there are a lot of bodgers out there who have are (or have) exploited the export market.
Jethro Bronner covers tis in one of his restoration videos.
velocemitch said:
Castrol for a knave said:
velocemitch said:
There are quite a lot of Alfa 105's which have come in from South Africa, some are pretty good, but the majority have been very poorly repaired in the past and take a lot of work to get back to where they ought to be. As mentioned above, not all state in the RSA are dry, some have an appalling climate for a car.
Many of the Alfa's were built in SA from kits sent out from Italy and had some unusual details from the start.
Weren't the RHD S1 Spiders built in SA and not at Pininfarina, Italy, so probably those kits you mention? Many of the Alfa's were built in SA from kits sent out from Italy and had some unusual details from the start.
My RHD Duetto came from South Africa in the early 2000's. It was in good condition with matching numbers (according to Alfa Archives) and had been well looked after. It had originally been supplied to Bermuda, but somehow found its way to Africa at some point.
But yes, there are a lot of bodgers out there who have are (or have) exploited the export market.
Jethro Bronner covers tis in one of his restoration videos.
https://www.alfabb.com/threads/south-african-built...
I always find AlfaBB like Wikipedia, you go in to look at one thing and emerge 3 hours later knowing everything there is to know about something completely off piste.
Can we clarify, UK/Euro/Japanese cars that have been exported to South Africa and then re-imported into the UK which are in better condition than ones which have lived in the UK for most of their life. Or are people interested in South African built versions of classic cars which can be much newer as they were manufactured post OE manufacture ending production for example Mk1/2 Escorts and Mk1 Golfs as there is a big difference between standards/expectations..
I had a chance to have a look at some South African import VW Golf CITIs which are a mk1 Golf 5door that was still made well into the late 90s early 00s in SA.
Although they tended to have significantly less rust in the back arches and chassis than the majority of German built mk1 Golfs I have seen & owned around the same time it was clear that the metalwork was definitely thinner, the panel gaps worse (worn presses?) the dashboard was from a mk3 6n Polo and wasn't a great fit even though it looks more modern. I wouldn't rush to buy one.
Don't you also have to be careful when buying a car that has been exported/re-imported to the UK that it is a straight car with chassis numbers plus matching documents as the export process can clear the previous V5 of any Cat markers.
I had a chance to have a look at some South African import VW Golf CITIs which are a mk1 Golf 5door that was still made well into the late 90s early 00s in SA.
Although they tended to have significantly less rust in the back arches and chassis than the majority of German built mk1 Golfs I have seen & owned around the same time it was clear that the metalwork was definitely thinner, the panel gaps worse (worn presses?) the dashboard was from a mk3 6n Polo and wasn't a great fit even though it looks more modern. I wouldn't rush to buy one.
Don't you also have to be careful when buying a car that has been exported/re-imported to the UK that it is a straight car with chassis numbers plus matching documents as the export process can clear the previous V5 of any Cat markers.
Mr Tidy said:
Different place but I remember seeing a few RHD Fiats a couple of years ago that had been imported from Cyprus, which is a bit nearer for shipping!
Or Malta? Sarah Crabtree (ex Bangers and Cash and sometimes visitor to PH) has recently driven a Mk1 Fiat Panda back to the UK.Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff