Classic "Special" - IVA
Discussion
I've seen an interesting special for sale from a deceased estate
Am I correct that if it was built from multiple cars that it would need an IVA ?
Presumably something built from multiple cars 50's - 90's would never get one
It has a 50's Bentley Chassis with 70's Bentley engine and box with custom bodywork but using some body parts from 90's cars
Am I correct that if it was built from multiple cars that it would need an IVA ?
Presumably something built from multiple cars 50's - 90's would never get one
It has a 50's Bentley Chassis with 70's Bentley engine and box with custom bodywork but using some body parts from 90's cars
There are now fairly rigid rules about this - check out radically altered vehicles on the DVLA site - but IIRC broadly speaking if it has an unmodified original chassis with front and rear axles and suspension, then it is still a 1950s Bentley, and can retain its original registration, if it has one. IVA would not be required in that case.
As the builder has died, it's a problem finding the paperwork my understanding is that is not registered but that he has the paperwork for the original chassis.
I'm waiting to see it - my position is without original paperwork I don't believe it can be registered without an IVA, which it will never get.
I'm waiting to see it - my position is without original paperwork I don't believe it can be registered without an IVA, which it will never get.
Hawkshaw said:
There are now fairly rigid rules about this - check out radically altered vehicles on the DVLA site - but IIRC broadly speaking if it has an unmodified original chassis with front and rear axles and suspension, then it is still a 1950s Bentley, and can retain its original registration, if it has one. IVA would not be required in that case.
This is the same as I was thinking, more detail on the specifics of the car would likely help.It sounds an interesting (though slightly odd) machine - it would be nice to know more.
If there is paperwork for the chassis and it actually existed as a Bentley in the 1950s - as opposed to being, say, just a spare chassis frame someone has found - then the relevant Bentley club should be able to ID it, in which case an age-related registration is a possibility. IVA would not be required in that case, and AFAIK is not applicable to vehicles more than 20 years old anyway.
As said, it very much depends on what is actually there, and also what you want to do with it.
If there is paperwork for the chassis and it actually existed as a Bentley in the 1950s - as opposed to being, say, just a spare chassis frame someone has found - then the relevant Bentley club should be able to ID it, in which case an age-related registration is a possibility. IVA would not be required in that case, and AFAIK is not applicable to vehicles more than 20 years old anyway.
As said, it very much depends on what is actually there, and also what you want to do with it.
Hawkshaw said:
It sounds an interesting (though slightly odd) machine - it would be nice to know more.
If there is paperwork for the chassis and it actually existed as a Bentley in the 1950s - as opposed to being, say, just a spare chassis frame someone has found - then the relevant Bentley club should be able to ID it, in which case an age-related registration is a possibility. IVA would not be required in that case, and AFAIK is not applicable to vehicles more than 20 years old anyway.
As said, it very much depends on what is actually there, and also what you want to do with it.
I would want to use it as it stands with the intention of re bodying it in the future because it's ugly as sinIf there is paperwork for the chassis and it actually existed as a Bentley in the 1950s - as opposed to being, say, just a spare chassis frame someone has found - then the relevant Bentley club should be able to ID it, in which case an age-related registration is a possibility. IVA would not be required in that case, and AFAIK is not applicable to vehicles more than 20 years old anyway.
As said, it very much depends on what is actually there, and also what you want to do with it.
Hawkshaw said:
IIRC broadly speaking if it has an unmodified original chassis with front and rear axles and suspension, then it is still a 1950s Bentley, and can retain its original registration, if it has one. IVA would not be required in that case.
You're slightly conflating two separate issues, here: just because the car has enough original components under the 'points' system to retain its donor registration does not mean that it doesn't need an IVA.It's possible to register a car under a donor's registration if sufficient of its major components come from a single donor or are new, but it will still need an IVA if it considered to be a different or radically modified' vehicle.
For example, most Westfield Elevens are registered using their donor MG Midget's registration mark, because the major components are Midget combined with a new chassis, but they still need IVA and are registered as 'Westfield Eleven', albeit with the donor registration plate and year of origin being applied.
Edited by Equus on Sunday 15th August 08:12
Tyre Smoke said:
You've contradicted yourself there Equus.
In what way?To clarify: whether or not a vehicle retains (or is allocated) an original number plate is not necessarily the same thing as whether or not it requires an IVA. They are two separate issues.
Essentially, you can only avoid IVA if the changes as limited to a rebody of existing running gear, based on the unmodified original chassis.
Equus said:
For example, most Westfield Elevens are registered as their donor MG Midget, because the major components are Midget combined with a new chassis, but they still need IVA and are registered as 'Westfield Eleven', albeit with the donor registration plate and year of origin being applied.
Like that.Tyre Smoke said:
Equus said:
For example, most Westfield Elevens are registered using their donor MG Midget's registration mark, because the major components are Midget combined with a new chassis, but they still need IVA and are registered as 'Westfield Eleven', albeit with the donor registration plate and year of origin being applied.
Like that.Is the form of words I have edited above clearer for you?
KTMsm said:
I would want to use it as it stands with the intention of re bodying it in the future because it's ugly as sin
That is what I guessed. I expect there is an interesting back story there. Got any photos?You need to apply to DVLA for an age related number using the V765 scheme, and get the Bentley Driver's Club to authenticate the car. It might be worth running it past them before you buy it, in case it is a complete no-no.
Future re-bodying shouldn't cause any issues with DVLA as long as you don't modify the chassis.
InitialDave said:
But he specifically used the example of if it had an unmodified original chassis and appropriate major components. He's correct.
We've been told that it's 50's chassis with a 70's engine and box and some 90's parts.The rules say that (regardless of whether you have sufficient components to make the 8-points needed for retention of an original registration mark) you need an IVA for any vehicle that has been 'radically altered'.
The problem is that there is no clear statutory definition of what constitutes 'radically altered'.
Fitting a 70's engine and box to a 50's chassis almost certainly involves a level of modification that crosses that line, however: as I have already said, the usual definition accepted is that you can rebody an unmodified original chassis and its running gear, but that's it.
It's quite possible that he will be able to make enough points to retain an original (or age-related) registration mark, but I'd be very surprised, from the initial description, if he is in a position to legitimately avoid IVA, and the chances of passing IVA with a 'vintage' style Bentley special of anything like period appearance and detailing are slim to nil.
Apologies for talking about something I know very little about, but you know the Bentley/Rolls 6.3 litre (?) engine that has only just been discontinued, that has been around forever, would that potentially be an easy ish fit into a 50s chassis with not much modification required?
I think the IVA is more structural isn't it? Adding (for example) electronic stuff, wouldn't be a major change would it? But cutting six inches off the chassis would.
I think the IVA is more structural isn't it? Adding (for example) electronic stuff, wouldn't be a major change would it? But cutting six inches off the chassis would.
Tyre Smoke said:
I think the IVA is more structural isn't it? Adding (for example) electronic stuff, wouldn't be a major change would it? But cutting six inches off the chassis would.
In terms of the threshold for 'radically altered', yes, it is generally accepted to be so (though as I said, there is actually no clear definition).ETA: The definition of 'radically altered' from the DVLA website is:
the DVLA said:
Radically altered vehicles are vehicles that have been altered from their original specification, but are not kit conversions.
Helpful, no? 
Once you find yourself within the scope of IVA, the test covers all sorts of stuff, though.
Edited by Equus on Sunday 15th August 11:24
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