Sapphire Cosworth

[n3il123]

Not sure if is the best place to get a response, but here goes!

I've recently purchased a 996 c4s which is lovely, but i'm not in love with it so i'm considering moving it on and getting something else on the bucket list. Which leads me to a Sapphire Cosworth.

Now they were my dream back in the 90's but i'm also more than aware that most of them out there are pups in one way or another!

So does anyone know the best place to start looking for one? There aren't many advertised, is this the actual market or is there some underground club where these cars change hands? and if so how do I get access to it?!

Are there any well regarded specialists?

I'm looking for a pretty standard car if that matters?

[Turbobanana]

I'll swap my wife's Ford* for your Porsche.








* OK, it's not technically a Sapphire Cosworth. Actually it's a Fiesta diesel in pink, with a dented door. But hey, the offer still stands

[n3il123]

Turbobanana said:

I'll swap my wife's Ford* for your Porsche.








* OK, it's not technically a Sapphire Cosworth. Actually it's a Fiesta diesel in pink, with a dented door. But hey, the offer still stands

Cool, it's nice to get some offers in, can I give you a shout back on it later?

[Dinoboy]

Owners club or Carandclassic.co.uk will have better examples than ebay or gumtree.

[sortedcossie]

I'd join the RS owners club and speak to the dedicated registrars for the 2wd and 4wd versions. They sometimes know of cars for sale that aren't advertised, seems this happens a lot with them.

A lot of the rubbish has now gone, generally leaving the better well looked after cars left. Having said that, there are some polished turds about so if you've not had one before ensure someone goes with you who knows them. Like much of the 80's and 90's scene, it's a sellers market due to scarcity of good examples.

Rust and availability of some parts are your biggest enemy now, things like door mouldings and window surrounds can command 4 figure prices when new ones are unearthed.

Personally I wouldn't be put off by higher mileage as long as proof of maintenance is present.

Not sure how you'll find the driving experience after the 996, as an ex owner of a 4x4 Cosworth I always describe them as a bit agricultural compared to more modern stuff. Nice road presence though.

[Deranged Rover]

As above - I was going to ask if you'd driven one. I did many years ago with a view to buying it but, to me, it felt big, heavy and unwieldy and, frankly, a bit like a tractor. Admittedly, a damn fast one, but a tractor nonetheless!

[n3il123]

Thanks for the replies.

The drive etc is one of the things that worries me and I i'm not sure how to get around that as the I really liked the 996 on the test drive but now I have it is just a bit meh.

I've messaged the local RSOC meet organiser to see if that is happening at the moment and if any Sapph's go to that.

I guess it might be one of those never meet your heroes, but then if I don't meet the hero will I just regret it

[sortedcossie]

Heading to a local meet is a good shout, not guaranteed that there will be one there but it's likely there will be someone who has owned one.

I'm still an RS owner, albeit the later Escort Cosworth. Our diesel daily drivers are faster than it and much better spec'd etc - but that isn't the point, i've had this for 15 years due to it's road presence, rarity, the noise it makes and how simple it is. I don't use it much, but when I do i'm immediately reminded why I've kept it so long.

If you want it as a pure drivers car I think you'll be disappointed unless its modded - still a big market out there for handling, brakes and engine upgrades with many retaining a standard look. I have a friend with a 4x4 Sierra Cosworth with a 400hp/400lb/ft conversion, TVR brakes and polybushed and uprated suspension which makes it a very capable machine even against newer stuff. Underneath though it's still a Sierra, just with a bit more pedigree than a 1.6L.

I use mine for the odd car show, Sunday drive out and family events - always a talking point.

[Mark A S]

I had a 2wd moonstone blue Sapphire Cosworth from new in 1989. After a while I had the BBR phase 4 engine mods done which was claimed at 375bhp, but more realistically around 330/40 ish, LOADS of torque though.
I had the rear viscous diff tightened as it could not cope with torque and billies all round. I sprinted it for a while, think I only got beat once.
Dam good road car back then, it was docile when needed and full on when not, 4 seats, big boot etc, a VERY practical car, albeit I little thirsty

I manage get from Fareham to Snetterton early one damp miserable morning in 2 hours,,,,,,

Now, here is the interesting bit, I P-X’d it for a G3 rally car to a local chap from Eastleigh around 91. It had just under 13,000ms on it then.
I bumped into the same chap around 4 to 5 years ago and he still has it cocooned in his garage, he has only added 200 miles ish from then!

I would go for a 2wd, the 4wd one is, whilst efficient, more “clumsy” and agricultural.

[stevemcs]

You need to decide what you want to spend, from that decide how you intend to use it. There is no point spending 30k on a tidy low mile car that you cannot use, your probably better off buying something that's useable rather than concorse. Does the Mk1 or 2 Focus RS appeal ?

[aeropilot]

sortedcossie said:

I'd join the RS owners club and speak to the dedicated registrars for the 2wd and 4wd versions. They sometimes know of cars for sale that aren't advertised, seems this happens a lot with them.

^^^^This.

[n3il123]

stevemcs said:

You need to decide what you want to spend, from that decide how you intend to use it. There is no point spending 30k on a tidy low mile car that you cannot use, your probably better off buying something that's useable rather than concorse. Does the Mk1 or 2 Focus RS appeal ?

Thanks, yes I have a budget ~£25k (with some stretch), I'm not into concours/ detailing so something useable is what I want, when I stay standard, I mean more in looks so no mahooosive allloys etc.. Conversely I don't want a multi colour cut and shut that is still on the police register for ram raiding.

Focus not really for me, we're going back to the '90s rave cassettes and all.

Mark A S said:

I had a 2wd moonstone blue Sapphire Cosworth from new in 1989.

I think this is what is calling me, a friend of my dads had one of those when I was just learning to drive and took me out a couple of times.

I only want to use it for the odd trip, I have other cars for daily etc etc.

[aeropilot]

Mark A S said:

I had a 2wd moonstone blue Sapphire Cosworth from new in 1989. After a while I had the BBR phase 4 engine mods done which was claimed at 375bhp, but more realistically around 330/40 ish, LOADS of torque though.
I had the rear viscous diff tightened as it could not cope with torque and billies all round. I sprinted it for a while, think I only got beat once.

When I was Sprinting my Lotus-Sunbeam on ASEMC events in 89-92 there was a guy running a black RS500 with a virtually full on Group A Mountune motor in it, in the modified road class which meant same class as me but can't for the life of me remember his name. It was a flying machine though, especially somewhere like Goodwood, where the time difference was silly. I could get close to him at tighter venue's like Debden etc. though.

[Mark A S]

aeropilot said:

When I was Sprinting my Lotus-Sunbeam on ASEMC events in 89-92 there was a guy running a black RS500 with a virtually full on Group A Mountune motor in it, in the modified road class which meant same class as me but can't for the life of me remember his name. It was a flying machine though, especially somewhere like Goodwood, where the time difference was silly. I could get close to him at tighter venue's like Debden etc. though.

I vaguely remember that car, i did the BARC rounds. There was a chap who looked like a slimmer version of David Belamy who had a similar spec to me Sierra Cossie, also in moonstone.
From memory, on road tyres [ no track day specials back then! ] i think i did Goodwood in 1.38 from a standing start.

cheers.

[sortedcossie]

Seems to be a lot of white ones for sale recently, a moonstone one will come up - you'll just have to keep your eyes peeled.

Good luck with the search!

[XR]

Back in the late 80's early 90's these things seemed to be everywhere, the 3 door was obviously the one to have but the 4 door was the perfect performance family car if you could keep it secure. I never got to own one but have driven and been a passenger in quite a few, a friend had a very late one as a company car a maroon K reg 4x4. I loved the cross spoke wheels on those final ones but I thought the 2 wheel drive were a slightly better drive.

204/224 bhp is no big deal nowadays but the overall package back then was something very special and its still the fastest I've ever been in any car.

Does anyone remember the white Sapphire M.A.D car doing over 200mph on a uk runway, that was some achievement.

They still have that amazing road presence and I wish the OP good luck in finding one.

[Mr Tidy]

I'd recommend trying one before you buy - sometimes it doesn't pay to meet your heroes!

I had a MK2 Escort RS2000 followed by a couple of Capri 2.8 Injections back in the 80s, so a Cossie was the next obvious step. But that was around the time they became uninsurable so I ended up with a 2.8i Scorpio.

Anyway a motor trader mate of mine started doing track days with Club89 in the mid-90s and took a RWD Moonstone Sapphire Cosworth for the day on the Silverstone GP circuit, along with an XR4i and an XR4x4 Estate - among others!

My turn to drive the Cossie came, but I was so disappointed. It felt gutless until it got to 3K rpm then everything happened in a rush, which was quite messy when it happened mid-corner - or maybe it highlighted my limited driving ability? Still after a few laps just as I was overtaking my mate on the straight the head-gasket let go - not uncommon with Cossies I believe.

OK the XR4i was slower on the straights, but much easier to get round the corners quickly than the Cossie (the XR4x4 was hopeless FWIW).

But I have never lusted after a Sierra Cosworth since then! An Escort Cossie maybe.

Just to add some period context my mate sold the Cossie in it's broken state to a fellow trader who replaced the head gasket, fitted a leather interior and sold it for £4K.

Then 4 or 5 years ago my same mate had a MK3 Capri that needed to go to the menders, so with my background he suggested I drive it there while he followed in another car to get back.

I was left wondering what I ever saw in them.

Anyway if you do still fancy one a dedicated owners club and/or forum has to be the best place to start.

[Shezbo]

Mr Tidy said:

I'd recommend trying one before you buy - sometimes it doesn't pay to meet your heroes!

Would agree with the above, if you currently find a 996 a bit ordinary to drive, I cannot see you 'enjoying' a Sierra too much?

The engine is a rough old thing and the inside is just very 80's in a Ford mass produced way....the original Sierra Cossie at least 'looks' great and is an 'event' but a Sierra Sapphire, is just too unremarkable (IMHO)?

[Escort3500]

n3il123 said:

Not sure if is the best place to get a response, but here goes!

I've recently purchased a 996 c4s which is lovely, but i'm not in love with it so i'm considering moving it on and getting something else on the bucket list. Which leads me to a Sapphire Cosworth.

Now they were my dream back in the 90's but i'm also more than aware that most of them out there are pups in one way or another!

So does anyone know the best place to start looking for one? There aren't many advertised, is this the actual market or is there some underground club where these cars change hands? and if so how do I get access to it?!

Are there any well regarded specialists?

I'm looking for a pretty standard car if that matters?

If you’ve £60k to spend, want a low mileage (27k) unmolested one and like Moonstone Blue, Classic & Sportscar Centre in N Yorkshire have just the car for you

[n3il123]

Shezbo said:

Would agree with the above, if you currently find a 996 a bit ordinary to drive, I cannot see you 'enjoying' a Sierra too much?

The engine is a rough old thing and the inside is just very 80's in a Ford mass produced way....the original Sierra Cossie at least 'looks' great and is an 'event' but a Sierra Sapphire, is just too unremarkable (IMHO)?

I think the thing with the 996 is that it doesn't seem like an event, the speed limits seem to have been dropped to 30 everywhere around here despite being quite rural, the 996 just seems a bit shackled and clinical. My 3.0 z3 though you have to work a bit more at, it has a little pop and bang to itself when it's warm on the overrun etc and just seems a bit more fun and involving without having to really push on.

I keep thinking that perhaps instead of the 996 I should have gone for a TVR or something like that.

But back to the Cosworth

Escort3500 said:

If you’ve £60k to spend, want a low mileage (27k) unmolested one and like Moonstone Blue, Classic & Sportscar Centre in N Yorkshire have just the car for you

That is a little (lot) more than I can afford/ justify! But that is exactly the look i'd want