The Reality Of Restoration Costs
Discussion
So, I need some work doing on my 2.8 Capri, which i have been putting off for some time. As with all older Ford's, there are areas prone to corrosion such as the rear floor, front strut tops, sills and A-posts. Mine needs all of these sorted out and of course its not going to be a simple job after 36 years of use.
I have a number of quotes which all come in at around the same amount of £11K plus materials and parts to complete. To be clear, this is not patching it up but removing the affected areas and re-building and re-painting to a high standard.
This covers all the structural areas of the car and the rest of it is in pretty good shape so doesn't need immediate action.
However, the oily bits (which are currently in good order) the exterior paintwork and any trim refurbs' are not covered in this amount and those areas will also require some work over the next couple of years.
I love the car and really enjoy driving it. Over the past 10 years, other than servicing, tyres, exhaust system and a few bulbs it's cost me nothing.
Capri's are climbing in value and I intend to keep it for some time to come, but can't quite get my head around spending over £11K plus materials on it, when it will need more in the future on things such as the gearbox, replacement clutch, wheel re-furb, drivers' seat re-trim etc.
I could just cover it up and leave it alone for the time being, but the problems not going to magically go away and the costs will only go up as time passes.
My Wife has suggested selling it and then putting what I get for it together with the £11K I would have spent and buying a better Capri that doesn't need the work. I'm reluctant to do this as I know my car well whereas a new one may be hiding all sorts of issues even if it does appear to be better on the surface.
Any advice/support from others who are or have been in a similar situation?
I have a number of quotes which all come in at around the same amount of £11K plus materials and parts to complete. To be clear, this is not patching it up but removing the affected areas and re-building and re-painting to a high standard.
This covers all the structural areas of the car and the rest of it is in pretty good shape so doesn't need immediate action.
However, the oily bits (which are currently in good order) the exterior paintwork and any trim refurbs' are not covered in this amount and those areas will also require some work over the next couple of years.
I love the car and really enjoy driving it. Over the past 10 years, other than servicing, tyres, exhaust system and a few bulbs it's cost me nothing.
Capri's are climbing in value and I intend to keep it for some time to come, but can't quite get my head around spending over £11K plus materials on it, when it will need more in the future on things such as the gearbox, replacement clutch, wheel re-furb, drivers' seat re-trim etc.
I could just cover it up and leave it alone for the time being, but the problems not going to magically go away and the costs will only go up as time passes.
My Wife has suggested selling it and then putting what I get for it together with the £11K I would have spent and buying a better Capri that doesn't need the work. I'm reluctant to do this as I know my car well whereas a new one may be hiding all sorts of issues even if it does appear to be better on the surface.
Any advice/support from others who are or have been in a similar situation?
Restoring and keeping classic cars on the road is an irrational pass time but it's hugely rewarding (not fiscally of course) and if you're passionate about the car go for it and ignore the money.
It's only money after all, you can't take it with you and folk think nothing of blowing 11k on a couple of years depreciation on a new car.
That's my approach anyway.
12 years ago I bought a total basket case of an Elan +2 and spent 7 years conducting a meticulous nut a bolt resotoration, purely as a challenge. I have all the receipts but have never totted then up but the car will never be worth what I spent. I could probably have bought a brand new Exige with all the money but that was not the motivation. The journey was hugely rewarding and a lot of the precious time was spent with my, then, young son who now shares my passion for old cars and engineering.
Don't fixate on the cost would be my advice - so long as you're passionate about the car just do it
It's only money after all, you can't take it with you and folk think nothing of blowing 11k on a couple of years depreciation on a new car.
That's my approach anyway.
12 years ago I bought a total basket case of an Elan +2 and spent 7 years conducting a meticulous nut a bolt resotoration, purely as a challenge. I have all the receipts but have never totted then up but the car will never be worth what I spent. I could probably have bought a brand new Exige with all the money but that was not the motivation. The journey was hugely rewarding and a lot of the precious time was spent with my, then, young son who now shares my passion for old cars and engineering.
Don't fixate on the cost would be my advice - so long as you're passionate about the car just do it
j4r4lly said:
Any advice/support from others who are or have been in a similar situation?
It's tricky - there is a heart over head aspect and on paper your wife is probably correct to say that yours plus 11K gets you a nicer Capri. However, yours is yours and there is something nice about knowing the history of the one you have. Its foibles and quirks, the places you have been together etc and the knowledge you have about that specific car is what makes it yours.
A friend of mine often asks a hypothetical question - if you could sell all of your cars for cash tomorrow and could go and buy anything that was out there, would you actually just buy all of your current fleet back or would you buy something else?
I have had a few wobbles, but for me, I'd actually buy the current fleet back. (TVR Tuscan, BMW M3, Escort Rally car, BMW 330 tow barge)
I am a holder, My TVR has been with me for ~14 years and it has had a body off chassis resto and various other stuff. Could I sell it and buy a better one, certainly - it needs more work, would I, no.
You already seem to appreciate that there is quite a bit of work stripping the car down to access the affected areas, let alone carrying out the necessary remedial metalwork so we can assume you're more or less happy the quotes represent reasonable value for money.
How much time do you have yourself? Is it worth considering doing the work yourself and learning a skill in the process? Or even reducing the costs by stripping the car out yourself and just employing someone to do the welding?
As others have said, if this is going to be a cheque book restoration then the sums will never work. It has to be done with heart not head.
How much time do you have yourself? Is it worth considering doing the work yourself and learning a skill in the process? Or even reducing the costs by stripping the car out yourself and just employing someone to do the welding?
As others have said, if this is going to be a cheque book restoration then the sums will never work. It has to be done with heart not head.
j4r4lly said:
My Wife has suggested selling it and then putting what I get for it together with the £11K I would have spent and buying a better Capri that doesn't need the work. I'm reluctant to do this as I know my car well whereas a new one may be hiding all sorts of issues even if it does appear to be better on the surface.
I'm with you on this, unless you are buying a car with a full documented restoration with photo file and even then, there's no guarantee it's still not hiding issues.To be honest, £11k is quite a small bill for structural rot work needed on a 30+ year old Ford......so I'd be pleased with that quote
Lotobear said:
Don't fixate on the cost would be my advice - so long as you're passionate about the car just do it
Good point. My Wife, in typical contrary fashion followed up her "sell it and get a better one" comment this morning with "I think you'll regret it if you sell it, as whenever you come home after driving it you are always happy"!aeropilot said:
j4r4lly said:
My Wife has suggested selling it and then putting what I get for it together with the £11K I would have spent and buying a better Capri that doesn't need the work. I'm reluctant to do this as I know my car well whereas a new one may be hiding all sorts of issues even if it does appear to be better on the surface.
I'm with you on this, unless you are buying a car with a full documented restoration with photo file and even then, there's no guarantee it's still not hiding issues.To be honest, £11k is quite a small bill for structural rot work needed on a 30+ year old Ford......so I'd be pleased with that quote
The quotes are well split out so each individual repair is costed against a time to do it, so I can see if it looks reasonable. Much of the front end word is interlinked, so for example, if they are going to repair strut tops the wing has to come off, so at the same time they may as well crack on with the A-pillar and bulkhead repairs and then also the sills. At my age I could easily still be driving it in 20 years time, so then the man maths start to make a lot more sense.
Thanks for your comments.
Andy-IM said:
You already seem to appreciate that there is quite a bit of work stripping the car down to access the affected areas, let alone carrying out the necessary remedial metalwork so we can assume you're more or less happy the quotes represent reasonable value for money.
How much time do you have yourself? Is it worth considering doing the work yourself and learning a skill in the process? Or even reducing the costs by stripping the car out yourself and just employing someone to do the welding?
As others have said, if this is going to be a cheque book restoration then the sums will never work. It has to be done with heart not head.
Yes, I can see from spending time with each of the people and going over what needs doing, that the time and therefore the cost is not unreasonable. After owning and driving it happily for 10 years I've got away with not spending anything on the bodywork and now it's finally caught up. How much time do you have yourself? Is it worth considering doing the work yourself and learning a skill in the process? Or even reducing the costs by stripping the car out yourself and just employing someone to do the welding?
As others have said, if this is going to be a cheque book restoration then the sums will never work. It has to be done with heart not head.
I did consider this a few years back. Mechanically I'll tackle most things but bodywork requires different skills, tools and experience. I came to the conclusion that I just don't have the time to do it justice and it would be better left to the professionals.
It may be a different story once I've retired, but for now I have too many competing priorities and the Capri would probably end up in a pile of parts for too long and I hate not being able to drive it.
Edited by j4r4lly on Wednesday 13th March 12:23
j4r4lly said:
My Wife, in typical contrary fashion followed up her "sell it and get a better one" comment this morning with "I think you'll regret it if you sell it, as whenever you come home after driving it you are always happy"!
The quotes are well split out so each individual repair is costed against a time to do it, so I can see if it looks reasonable. Much of the front end word is interlinked, so for example, if they are going to repair strut tops the wing has to come off, so at the same time they may as well crack on with the A-pillar and bulkhead repairs and then also the sills. At my age I could easily still be driving it in 20 years time, so then the man maths start to make a lot more sense.
Thanks for your comments.
Sounds to me like your wife is a very sensible lady!The quotes are well split out so each individual repair is costed against a time to do it, so I can see if it looks reasonable. Much of the front end word is interlinked, so for example, if they are going to repair strut tops the wing has to come off, so at the same time they may as well crack on with the A-pillar and bulkhead repairs and then also the sills. At my age I could easily still be driving it in 20 years time, so then the man maths start to make a lot more sense.
Thanks for your comments.
Her second comment tells you all you need to know, really...
Very best of luck with it.
fat80b said:
j4r4lly said:
Any advice/support from others who are or have been in a similar situation?
It's tricky - there is a heart over head aspect and on paper your wife is probably correct to say that yours plus 11K gets you a nicer Capri. However, yours is yours and there is something nice about knowing the history of the one you have. Its foibles and quirks, the places you have been together etc and the knowledge you have about that specific car is what makes it yours.
A friend of mine often asks a hypothetical question - if you could sell all of your cars for cash tomorrow and could go and buy anything that was out there, would you actually just buy all of your current fleet back or would you buy something else?
I have had a few wobbles, but for me, I'd actually buy the current fleet back. (TVR Tuscan, BMW M3, Escort Rally car, BMW 330 tow barge)
I am a holder, My TVR has been with me for ~14 years and it has had a body off chassis resto and various other stuff. Could I sell it and buy a better one, certainly - it needs more work, would I, no.
Thanks for the encouragement.
j4r4lly said:
It's true that if I sold it I'd have to have another Capri. Bought my first one in 1982 and have never been more than a few months without one. This one was at our wedding, has taken me to so many memorable places and always makes me smile. It's a rusty old pile of tin, plastic and rubber from the 1980's, but it's kept me going when life has been tough and as other cars have come and gone (Aston's, Jaguar's, BMW's etc.), this is really the only one my Wife also likes and doesn't resent it.
Its a no brainer then after reading that, other than what are dithering around for man, stop writing on here, and get in the garage and get it stripped and booked in 
j4r4lly said:
It's true that if I sold it I'd have to have another Capri. Bought my first one in 1982 and have never been more than a few months without one. This one was at our wedding, has taken me to so many memorable places and always makes me smile. It's a rusty old pile of tin, plastic and rubber from the 1980's, but it's kept me going when life has been tough and as other cars have come and gone (Aston's, Jaguar's, BMW's etc.), this is really the only one my Wife also likes and doesn't resent it.
Thanks for the encouragement.
I'd gather from that you don't want a Capri... you want this one. Really the choice is sort it out, or live with it on a budget. I think you've made your decision.Thanks for the encouragement.
On a different note, to me, one of the attractions of old cars is that they have cost me practically nothing (maybe less) over the decades I've owned/driven/played with them - your welding costs alone are around two years income for me. It's good that there are folk like you willing to pay out on such cars, left to well meaning amateurs like myself the whole industry would go down the pan. Best of luck with it.
It is a really difficult decision when you are the one spending the large amounts out to keep the car in good condition, but possibly someone else did some big expenditure jobs before you bought the car, so think about how you have benefited from them for free for all these years?
I have an Elan +2 which the previous owners spent a lot of money on. it's second owner, in 1996/7 did the engine and full bodywork, only to sell it a year later! The next owner had it 20 years. Along that way, it increased in value quite a bit, so the money you are spending now will not seem all that much in 20 years time.
I don't have the big expenditure on my +2 but do have job to do on it quite often. Sometime I think Should I sell? Money in the bank, fewer jobs to do, but then I remember how nice it is to drive and enjoy with the kids and I remember how lucky I am to be able to afford it in the first place - not everyone can.
Go for it.
I have an Elan +2 which the previous owners spent a lot of money on. it's second owner, in 1996/7 did the engine and full bodywork, only to sell it a year later! The next owner had it 20 years. Along that way, it increased in value quite a bit, so the money you are spending now will not seem all that much in 20 years time.
I don't have the big expenditure on my +2 but do have job to do on it quite often. Sometime I think Should I sell? Money in the bank, fewer jobs to do, but then I remember how nice it is to drive and enjoy with the kids and I remember how lucky I am to be able to afford it in the first place - not everyone can.
Go for it.
Its hard weighing up the pros and cons, as lets face it if you had your sensible head on, you probably wouldn't have it in the first place.
We looked at a few already restored when we were doing my 500 and none of them were restored as well as we would do it, there was little short cuts here and there we wouldn't have taken. Things we didn't like about each restoration job. So in reality it made sense to do it ourselves, it cost twice as much as we anticipated and took three times as long. But literally every bit is done and I know it won't need doing again for x amount of years. Rather than chasing the rot and repairs which we would have done. Yes its not worth what we spent restoring it, but i know we won't be chucking even more money at it in a years time redoing stuff.
It will cost more than the 11k as you'll find more stuff that needs doing and it will make sense to have x done whilst your doing y.
We looked at a few already restored when we were doing my 500 and none of them were restored as well as we would do it, there was little short cuts here and there we wouldn't have taken. Things we didn't like about each restoration job. So in reality it made sense to do it ourselves, it cost twice as much as we anticipated and took three times as long. But literally every bit is done and I know it won't need doing again for x amount of years. Rather than chasing the rot and repairs which we would have done. Yes its not worth what we spent restoring it, but i know we won't be chucking even more money at it in a years time redoing stuff.
It will cost more than the 11k as you'll find more stuff that needs doing and it will make sense to have x done whilst your doing y.
j4r4lly said:
So, I need some work doing on my 2.8 Capri, which i have been putting off for some time. As with all older Ford's, there are areas prone to corrosion such as the rear floor, front strut tops, sills and A-posts. Mine needs all of these sorted out and of course its not going to be a simple job after 36 years of use.
I have a number of quotes which all come in at around the same amount of £11K plus materials and parts to complete. To be clear, this is not patching it up but removing the affected areas and re-building and re-painting to a high standard.
This covers all the structural areas of the car and the rest of it is in pretty good shape so doesn't need immediate action.
However, the oily bits (which are currently in good order) the exterior paintwork and any trim refurbs' are not covered in this amount and those areas will also require some work over the next couple of years.
I love the car and really enjoy driving it. Over the past 10 years, other than servicing, tyres, exhaust system and a few bulbs it's cost me nothing.
Capri's are climbing in value and I intend to keep it for some time to come, but can't quite get my head around spending over £11K plus materials on it, when it will need more in the future on things such as the gearbox, replacement clutch, wheel re-furb, drivers' seat re-trim etc.
I could just cover it up and leave it alone for the time being, but the problems not going to magically go away and the costs will only go up as time passes.
My Wife has suggested selling it and then putting what I get for it together with the £11K I would have spent and buying a better Capri that doesn't need the work. I'm reluctant to do this as I know my car well whereas a new one may be hiding all sorts of issues even if it does appear to be better on the surface.
Any advice/support from others who are or have been in a similar situation?
Hi mate , can you pm me details of the garages you got the quotes from , Im, in a similar situation on one of my mark 1s I have a number of quotes which all come in at around the same amount of £11K plus materials and parts to complete. To be clear, this is not patching it up but removing the affected areas and re-building and re-painting to a high standard.
This covers all the structural areas of the car and the rest of it is in pretty good shape so doesn't need immediate action.
However, the oily bits (which are currently in good order) the exterior paintwork and any trim refurbs' are not covered in this amount and those areas will also require some work over the next couple of years.
I love the car and really enjoy driving it. Over the past 10 years, other than servicing, tyres, exhaust system and a few bulbs it's cost me nothing.
Capri's are climbing in value and I intend to keep it for some time to come, but can't quite get my head around spending over £11K plus materials on it, when it will need more in the future on things such as the gearbox, replacement clutch, wheel re-furb, drivers' seat re-trim etc.
I could just cover it up and leave it alone for the time being, but the problems not going to magically go away and the costs will only go up as time passes.
My Wife has suggested selling it and then putting what I get for it together with the £11K I would have spent and buying a better Capri that doesn't need the work. I'm reluctant to do this as I know my car well whereas a new one may be hiding all sorts of issues even if it does appear to be better on the surface.
Any advice/support from others who are or have been in a similar situation?
nice 2.8i by the way and this year is the capri 50th celebration
cheers
Hi I’m in a similar situation as you except I haven’t used mine for a good few years ( I’m ashamed to say) and now want to revive it!
I’ve had the same conversations with loved ones, like your wife says you could buy another, it’s the easier option, but then I’ve had those that say....better the devil you know!
If I had experienced a mk1 and a mk2 beforehand the decision would be easier (I’d pick my favourite and keep it for good) but as prices have gone up... I think time running out, but then you only live once!
Your wife knows you better than anyone else, and if she sees you’re happy after you’ve driven it, then that counts for a lot.
You have history with it, a good connection with it and both of you have good memories in it!
Unless you fancy a different model completely, then I get yours done, it looks like a good example already...and an early 5 speed in two tone graphite over silver...judging by the stripes, is rare!
The thing to ask yourself is how would you feel if you had sold it and wasn’t in your garage?
£11k is not a bad quote, I expect a few quid more for mine!
Good luck and hope you do what’s right for you.
I’ve had the same conversations with loved ones, like your wife says you could buy another, it’s the easier option, but then I’ve had those that say....better the devil you know!
If I had experienced a mk1 and a mk2 beforehand the decision would be easier (I’d pick my favourite and keep it for good) but as prices have gone up... I think time running out, but then you only live once!
Your wife knows you better than anyone else, and if she sees you’re happy after you’ve driven it, then that counts for a lot.
You have history with it, a good connection with it and both of you have good memories in it!
Unless you fancy a different model completely, then I get yours done, it looks like a good example already...and an early 5 speed in two tone graphite over silver...judging by the stripes, is rare!
The thing to ask yourself is how would you feel if you had sold it and wasn’t in your garage?
£11k is not a bad quote, I expect a few quid more for mine!
Good luck and hope you do what’s right for you.
I have worked in for 25 years and actually now own (same company) a classic car restoration company. The vehicle is worth whatever you want to put into it!
We have built everything from a 1932 MGPA up to a 2010 Aston Martin. The labour costs are no different whatever the model.
I have had customers spend north of £30k to restore there Austin Marina/Ital......
Full mechanical & body full nut & bolt restoration starts around £50k.!
Absolutely no money on the fabrication/bodyshop works... The amount of hours involved are huge! It takes up around 600 hours to restore and paint a body but if we are lucky we can book half the hours out..
Any questions, please ask away
Tom
We have built everything from a 1932 MGPA up to a 2010 Aston Martin. The labour costs are no different whatever the model.
I have had customers spend north of £30k to restore there Austin Marina/Ital......
Full mechanical & body full nut & bolt restoration starts around £50k.!
Absolutely no money on the fabrication/bodyshop works... The amount of hours involved are huge! It takes up around 600 hours to restore and paint a body but if we are lucky we can book half the hours out..
Any questions, please ask away
Tom
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