Do any classics truly compare with modern cars?
Discussion
I've driven a few older cars and not one has remotely compared with modern cars in terms of performance, handling and general driving dynamics. Granted, I haven't driven a classic Ferrari or Lambo, Maserati, Aston etc.
Looks, yes. Driving, no.
Or am I wrong? Have any of you driven classic cars that genuinely do compare favourably?
Looks, yes. Driving, no.
Or am I wrong? Have any of you driven classic cars that genuinely do compare favourably?
I do not know of any car that would compare on any count with todays stuff. OK some of the 8/10 lt blowers are fast as in FAST, not that I've driven them, but then it was a case of stuffing huge engines in where now of course its all sophistication and computers.
Looking at the old films of cars being flung about and sometimes drivers being flung out
skinny tyres, open to elements, hard bar*tards in them days 
Guys like moss and surtees can tell us how they compare, at least from the 50's era.
As for driving on roads, I will let you know how I get on.
Looking at the old films of cars being flung about and sometimes drivers being flung out
skinny tyres, open to elements, hard bar*tards in them days Guys like moss and surtees can tell us how they compare, at least from the 50's era.
As for driving on roads, I will let you know how I get on.
Depends what youre calling a classic (i see this becoming a common question!).
I call my Beta Volumex a classic, though some wouldnt as its not quite 25 years old. It compares massively favourably to modern cars though imho.
Why? amazing steering feedback, unique looks, superb handling, plenty of power and torque, cabin not so muffled you cant hear the engine, more dash instruments than you can shake a stick at, all the refinements of a modern car (5th gear, leccy windows, fold down seats, discs all round), will still be able to be fixed long after the diagnostic equipment to figure out whats wrong with current cars has gone by the way..
I could go on forever. but i wont.
I call my Beta Volumex a classic, though some wouldnt as its not quite 25 years old. It compares massively favourably to modern cars though imho.
Why? amazing steering feedback, unique looks, superb handling, plenty of power and torque, cabin not so muffled you cant hear the engine, more dash instruments than you can shake a stick at, all the refinements of a modern car (5th gear, leccy windows, fold down seats, discs all round), will still be able to be fixed long after the diagnostic equipment to figure out whats wrong with current cars has gone by the way..
I could go on forever. but i wont.
Character is what it's about. Modern cars are all smooth and character isn't obvious.
I got to drive an Audi Quattro a couple of years ago. It was more fun than any of the other exotica that I driving that day!
Perhaps it just reminded me of my old cars, but it smelled different, felt different and drove differently. Fabulous.
I got to drive an Audi Quattro a couple of years ago. It was more fun than any of the other exotica that I driving that day!
Perhaps it just reminded me of my old cars, but it smelled different, felt different and drove differently. Fabulous.
They don't have to compare at all, the fun is driving an old car. You can drive my austin seven special on the limit and not set off a speed camera. You get the same thrill it just happens a lot slower. We run a morris minor as an everyday car for far less per year than most peoples insurance costs. And it goes just as fast in traffic as any TVR
PetrolTed said:
I got to drive an Audi Quattro a couple of years ago. It was more fun than any of the other exotica that I driving that day!
As a young salesman, I was granted permission to take the 'then' new 20v full blown Quattro on a demo to a customers house.
My first real taste of peformance. Nearly smashed it up within 1 minute of leaving the garage.
A truely great car and one which I'd like to own some time in the future.
Sometimes I'm lucky enough to get behind the wheel of a factory stock(ish) Saab 900T16S and remind myself what a cracking car it is the way it came from the factory. Modern 'sporty' compact execs feel hopelessly devoid of real feedback, character and nimbleness in comparison. I'm sure something very similar goes for a Mk IV Golf GTI when compared to its Mk I and II predecessors, and if I'm brutally honest, a 996 C4S feels decidedly un-special 99% of the time compared to the 964 and 993. Sod that the ultimate capability of each new 911 variant is slightly extended versus the model it replaces - if I'm buying a sports car for that kind of money it should make me feel special all the time, and not only the times that I find myself in license- and/or lifethreatening territory.
Modern cars have gained about 300 kgs of weight over the past 15 years, and feel it. With the average age of new car buyers rising and increasing traffic density, 'refinement' and creature comforts have taken over from driver involvement. Above and beyond that, there's the above examples of Saab and VW clearly having lost the plot somewhere when replacing their icons. Now I'm not suggesting we go back to the utter death- and rattletraps that were the small family cars of yesteryear - in fact, no one would argue that huge strides have been made in the lower car segments to the point that I actually feel the biggish exec cas has been rendered pointless as my humble MINI One's 'natural' motorway cruising speed seems to be around a ton - but it does bring the overall balance between driver appeal and daily usability of the cars that were properly engineered back then.
>> Edited by 900T-R on Wednesday 20th October 14:29
Modern cars have gained about 300 kgs of weight over the past 15 years, and feel it. With the average age of new car buyers rising and increasing traffic density, 'refinement' and creature comforts have taken over from driver involvement. Above and beyond that, there's the above examples of Saab and VW clearly having lost the plot somewhere when replacing their icons. Now I'm not suggesting we go back to the utter death- and rattletraps that were the small family cars of yesteryear - in fact, no one would argue that huge strides have been made in the lower car segments to the point that I actually feel the biggish exec cas has been rendered pointless as my humble MINI One's 'natural' motorway cruising speed seems to be around a ton - but it does bring the overall balance between driver appeal and daily usability of the cars that were properly engineered back then.
>> Edited by 900T-R on Wednesday 20th October 14:29
I remember the 205GTi 1.9's that I had back in the late 1980's early 90's.
I remember them having phenomenal handling and performance.
I'd love to have a go of one today and see if I still thought so.
I agree with 900T-R's comment about weight. Most modern cars do feel more solid/heavier becuase they are. Although perhaps improvements in power and chassis/suspension counteract the weight gain.
I remember them having phenomenal handling and performance.
I'd love to have a go of one today and see if I still thought so.
I agree with 900T-R's comment about weight. Most modern cars do feel more solid/heavier becuase they are. Although perhaps improvements in power and chassis/suspension counteract the weight gain.
ARH said:
They don't have to compare at all, the fun is driving an old car. You can drive my austin seven special on the limit and not set off a speed camera. You get the same thrill it just happens a lot slower. We run a morris minor as an everyday car for far less per year than most peoples insurance costs. And it goes just as fast in traffic as any TVR
heae hear
I currently am down to only 2 classics.The suped up Midget (Ok it is heavily modified in terms of power and handling) and an E-type. So much fun and comparatively cheap.
I've had a MGB, MGB GTV8,Rover P6, Minis of sorts, deux chevaux etc and tried out many more. They are just as much fun as modern cars - all different- all have their own character and charm.
I think when it comes down to it, many classics offer a much more raw and primal experience than any modern cars can (mainly due to safety regs)...... Drive a Lambo of 30-40 years ago an dyou'll drive for an our and get out deaf, blind, reeking of petrol and feeling like you've gone ten rounds with Mike Tyson, but you'll have a grin as wide as the sky above.... in a modern one.... little of the raw experience remains.... sure, you'll still be grinning, but it'll be a different KIND of fun
I have been fortunate enough to own many classics over the years and drive many more. My own view is that, however much you may love a classic and for whatever reason, you can never pretend that they are anything like as good as a modern car. The double whammy of deterioration over time of the car itself AND advances in technology means they can't touch even much more mundane modern stuff.
The old man has a 1959 DB4 - a lovely old tool and a supercar in its time but now it is less comfortable, less dynamically competant, slower and miles less well equipped that a Golf GTi
The old man has a 1959 DB4 - a lovely old tool and a supercar in its time but now it is less comfortable, less dynamically competant, slower and miles less well equipped that a Golf GTi
The main problem with many old and classic cars is that they are often worn-out , knackered and/or not looked after properly. This often means that you don`t get a realistic driving experience.
Find a good, properly maintained example of something like an Elan Sprint, or an early 911 and you have a car that in many (if not all) respects, is the equal of most moderns.
My most enjoyable driving experience was driving a vintage Frazer Nash - great handling, no grip, no brakes, surprising speed and opposite lock on every corner!!
Find a good, properly maintained example of something like an Elan Sprint, or an early 911 and you have a car that in many (if not all) respects, is the equal of most moderns.
My most enjoyable driving experience was driving a vintage Frazer Nash - great handling, no grip, no brakes, surprising speed and opposite lock on every corner!!
Well, if you look back to the fifites and sixties that's certainly true - but almost all advances in technology over the past ten, fifteen years have been geared to (perceived) safety, refinement, creature comforts, equipment and emissions (disregarding fringe movements like purpose-designed trackday cars et cetera). After having driven about 300 new cars so far as an automotive writer and having talked to engineers from both car manufacturers and system suppliers, it's gotten obvious to me that globalization and platform sharing has had a detrimental effect on what we love in cars, and cost pressures against the rise in content (airbags, electronic stability systems, air con etc) has meant something had to give, and that something has often been component quality, interior materials - but also things like suspension engineering. The Peugeot 307 isn't half as capable as the 306 was, partly because of he current fad of 'high rise' family cars, partly because of the growth in size and weight, partly because engineers tend to rely on ESP to ensure the car doesn't fall off the road.
Plus the beauty of running a slightly older car is that you can choose which parts to update. You can have race-developed suspension, better brakes and often the engine technology out of a later car, and none of the gizmo's and doodahs in the purer, lighter, prettier, earlier version. It's my way of simultaneous cake consumption and retention
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Plus the beauty of running a slightly older car is that you can choose which parts to update. You can have race-developed suspension, better brakes and often the engine technology out of a later car, and none of the gizmo's and doodahs in the purer, lighter, prettier, earlier version. It's my way of simultaneous cake consumption and retention
. clapham993 said:
I have been fortunate enough to own many classics over the years and drive many more. My own view is that, however much you may love a classic and for whatever reason, you can never pretend that they are anything like as good as a modern car. The double whammy of deterioration over time of the car itself AND advances in technology means they can't touch even much more mundane modern stuff.
The old man has a 1959 DB4 - a lovely old tool and a supercar in its time but now it is less comfortable, less dynamically competant, slower and miles less well equipped that a Golf GTi
Agreed, but the '59 model would surely be more chuckable, more adjustable. Modern cars are increasingly inert, and the dynamic competence advantage enjoyed by the Golfgti over the Aston would in my view be more than outweighed by the increased involvement in, and dynamic influence on the car, on the part of classic motorist.
Consequently, for me the DB would be the better car.
I don't think that it's a fair to compare these older classics with modern cars.
If you chose an older classic such as a 911, a 308 or an E-type you chose it because you love the style, the drive and more often than not it is the only way in which you can buy a real piece of motoring history, without spending a fortune.
These cars usually attract considerable attention from admirers, rather than the occasional jealous types who might perhaps scratch a modern day supercar.
I know little about engines etc but whilst an Imprezza etc might be very fast and easily faster than perhaps these older cars, the older ones have that certain something which most affordable modern cars do not.
By this of course I exclude modern Ferrari, Porsche etc.
If you chose an older classic such as a 911, a 308 or an E-type you chose it because you love the style, the drive and more often than not it is the only way in which you can buy a real piece of motoring history, without spending a fortune.
These cars usually attract considerable attention from admirers, rather than the occasional jealous types who might perhaps scratch a modern day supercar.
I know little about engines etc but whilst an Imprezza etc might be very fast and easily faster than perhaps these older cars, the older ones have that certain something which most affordable modern cars do not.
By this of course I exclude modern Ferrari, Porsche etc.
I certainly don't dispute that the style of many classics is superior to many modern cars. Look at an Aston Martin Zegato or a classic Ferrari for proof.
My original question was do any classic cars actually compare with modern machines?
For example, would a 1960 Cooper S out handle an MX5?
Or would an E-Type embarass a MGF?
Is the original Golf GTi really better to drive than a modern hot hatch?
My original question was do any classic cars actually compare with modern machines?
For example, would a 1960 Cooper S out handle an MX5?
Or would an E-Type embarass a MGF?
Is the original Golf GTi really better to drive than a modern hot hatch?
The main reson I drive olders cars is cost, I can have a car for every need, the morris minor as economical car for her indoors (which she loves and would not change for the world), MX5 as cheap fun daily hack, jag for fast comfy motorway moments, and an austin seven for fun. I can run all thses for the same cost as a vectra or such like. And if you add depreciation, the numbers look even better.
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