Tips for undoing wire wheel knock-offs

[larrylamb11]

Not normally lurking in here, but hoping somebody may have some tips on how I can undo the worlds tightest knock-offs! Essentially we are re-commissioning a pre-war motor... wheels haven't been removed since at least 1977! Front knock-offs came off OK, but the rear ones are staggeringly tight - or seized.... Any tips on removing the blighters? We're pretty sure the drivers side is LH thread (the front is), so are concentrating on the passengers side and have had a knock-off spanner with about a 4 foot extension being stood on by a 15st bloke AND gentle heat from oxy-acetylene and it still won't budge. We can now get more leverage on it than we can retard and are in the position of spinning the wheel instead of turning the knock-off... despite having the car chocked, the hand brake on and a man on the foot brake! The engine is out so we can't use any driving or engine related cheats. It needs to be some sort of garage based solution. Does anyone know if you can get a knock-off adaptor for a windy-gun? We have a monster air impact wrench that has always been the terminator for stubborn nuts in the past... but no way of attatching it to the nut. I want to be absolutely sure we have exhausted every angle before the anlge grinder comes out and we have to cut them off as it is going to be hard to avoid collateral damage from the cutting disk.....
Any thoughts or suggestions gratefully received.

[v8250]

op, it sounds like you guys have a tough one there. if oxy heat +4ft bar +15st man won't shift the knock-offs i think they'll have to cut-off. have experienced the same only once before...it's incredible how much force is required when they're in this state. you may like to buzz-back/cut the front face first as this will also show you what's going on between the two threaded surfaces - this should be okay for both winged and octagonal types; i'm assuming here the knock-offs are not some super-rare variety. one thing to be careful of post removal is to thoroughly inspect hubs and hub threads - there are some heavy-handed folk out there which may explain why they won't readily unspin; good luck.

ps don't forget the copper slip when re-fitting

[Huntsman]

I'd be spending an hour with some odds of scrap material, a big socket and a MIG on full blast to make something to use with the windy gun.

[larrylamb11]

Huntsman said:

I'd be spending an hour with some odds of scrap material, a big socket and a MIG on full blast to make something to use with the windy gun.

Yeah, I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that that is probably the best direction to go down...

[RichB]

I think I would slide the front off as has been suggested and then cut it along the side rather like a nut-splitter would then it could be force open with a steel chisel. Aren't they usually brass? IF so should be too tough to cut with a dremmel or something similar.

[a8hex]

I did see an ad once for a spinner tool to let you put a standard spanner onto it.
Looked like a nice bit of kit, had "hard" nylon inner faces to stop beating up the spinner, but cost a fortune.

[Caulkhead]

Get a piece of wood and a bottle jack. Put the wood between the trailing wing of the knock-off and the jack. Jack the car up a little until the wheel is about to lift off the floor and apply penetrating oil to knock-off. Go and have your supper. Eventually you will hear a clunk from the workshop. . . . .

[Roy C]

a8hex said:

I did see an ad once for a spinner tool to let you put a standard spanner onto it.
Looked like a nice bit of kit, had "hard" nylon inner faces to stop beating up the spinner, but cost a fortune.

One of these?
http://knockoffspinnertool.com/two_eared_spinners

[Classic Grad 98]

Impact is often the answer to problems like these, perhaps setting it up under torsion like Caulkhead suggested then belting it with a big 'ammer might work?

[a8hex]

Roy C said:

a8hex said:

I did see an ad once for a spinner tool to let you put a standard spanner onto it.
Looked like a nice bit of kit, had "hard" nylon inner faces to stop beating up the spinner, but cost a fortune.

One of these?
http://knockoffspinnertool.com/two_eared_spinners

No, not that one, similar idea though.

[larrylamb11]

Thanks for the link! That provides some inspiration if I get the welder out. We've tried jacking on the spinner already - we had the car off the ground! Then beat on it with a hammer - still no joy. Because of the design, you can't get penetrating oil to the thread... unless we drill a hole in the spinner (which we might yet have to do). The outermost flange is up tight on the wheel centre, inside that is the internal thread... we can't even see if corrosion is the enemy at present. This discussion has given me a couple more thoughts to try though and that is much appreciated, if anyone has anything else please post 'em up.

[occrj]

Can't help specifically, but if the car's something a bit unusual, I'd be checking on the availability of replacement spinners before getting the cutting gear out.

Good luck with it

RJ

[dmulally]

I doubt once it is off you would be able to use it again.

I would carefully use a 1mm cutting disc on a grinder and chop chop.

Good luck though and report back how you got it off.

Just remembered, maybe it was taken apart some time and they switched the sides. Perhaps try turning the other way.

[lowdrag]

dmulally said:

I doubt once it is off you would be able to use it again.

I would carefully use a 1mm cutting disc on a grinder and chop chop.

Good luck though and report back how you got it off.

Just remembered, maybe it was taken apart some time and they switched the sides. Perhaps try turning the other way.

+1 - although I've seen a three-wheel car once who got it mixed up! As an aside, I was once approached by a Frenchman who was very interested in a make of car he'd never previously heard of. He asked me where the make "UNDO" was made

[a8hex]

I though that "UNDO" only made the spinners.

Although in this case it seems that OP doesn't have one of theirs.

[IroningMan]

a8hex said:

I though that "UNDO" only made the spinners.

Although in this case it seems that OP doesn't have one of theirs.

Apparently only genuine parts feature the 'bowed arrow' logo...

[Roy C]

IroningMan said:

a8hex said:

I though that "UNDO" only made the spinners.

Although in this case it seems that OP doesn't have one of theirs.

Apparently only genuine parts feature the 'bowed arrow' logo...

Is that the logo of the well-known manufacturer "OE"?

[a8hex]

IroningMan said:

a8hex said:

I though that "UNDO" only made the spinners.

Although in this case it seems that OP doesn't have one of theirs.

Apparently only genuine parts feature the 'bowed arrow' logo...

Think yourself lucky, in my industry one of the manufactures would have patented the idea of putting an arrow on the spinner to indicate the direction to turn it and would now be happily trying to sue everyone else for trying to indicate which way to turn.

[Major Fallout]

I have been tempted to make some pointing the wrong way, as a sort of anti theft device.

[larrylamb11]

OK, some progress....
Bit sheepish here, but long and short is we were trying to turn them the wrong way! Turns out the hubs have been swapped side for side at some point in the mists of time and the back hubs no longer match the fronts. Thanks to dmulally whose comments prompted me to do a thorough job of checking their orientation..... it was only when I got right down on my hands and knees, buzzed off the spinner and hit it with a dazzling torch that I was able to highlight the faintest of writing on the knock off and pick out 'nearside' on the spinner fitted to the offside wheel....
In my defence I should add that at least two people had also failed to spot this and even the cars original elderly owner swore blind that the hubs were all on the right way as it was one of the things checked early on in initial efforts to free off the spinners - its a useful reminder for me to check the phyiscal evidence again before relying on the word of someone else though
Now that we are confident we know we will be turning the spinners the right way, I am hopeful they will come off with judicious use of previous tactics and without too much difficulty. They must still be mighty tight, as we weren't able to tighten them up any more when we thought we were previously undoing them! I will post back when they are off, hopefully after the weekend and thanks again to all who suggested ideas and thoughts - it was this discussion that ultimately led to finding our error. I knew PH wouldn't let us down!