Are cars less characterful than they used to be?

[mk1coopers]

It is a soft top, but what about a 6 series, unloved looks in their day but not so much now, it would tick most of the boxes.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206086...

[Turbobanana]

mk1coopers said:

It is a soft top, but what about a 6 series, unloved looks in their day but not so much now, it would tick most of the boxes.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206086...

Thanks Mk1, I appreciate the thought but that looks like it was designed by a 3 year old given a pencil and told to draw a car.

Also it's too big for my garage.

[PositronicRay]

Turbobanana said:

mk1coopers said:

It is a soft top, but what about a 6 series, unloved looks in their day but not so much now, it would tick most of the boxes.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206086...

Thanks Mk1, I appreciate the thought but that looks like it was designed by a 3 year old given a pencil and told to draw a car.

Also it's too big for my garage.

I think they're the best kind, no one wants a car designed by a grown up.

[PomBstard]

Was in a similar’ish sort of position when looking earlier this year. Needed something fun to drive, a bit practical (2+2), and different. Now, it seems that my ‘thing’ is transaxle Porsches, but amongst a plethora of alternatives I also considered a few hot hatches and kept looking at Integra Type Rs…

They’re a bit focussed but quite fun. And they come in Yellow…




Turbobanana becomes VTECyobanana

Otherwise I’d also recommend browsing the ads at the back of one of the classic car mags and seeing what takes your eye.

[Turbobanana]

PomBstard said:

Was in a similar’ish sort of position when looking earlier this year. Needed something fun to drive, a bit practical (2+2), and different. Now, it seems that my ‘thing’ is transaxle Porsches, but amongst a plethora of alternatives I also considered a few hot hatches and kept looking at Integra Type Rs…

They’re a bit focussed but quite fun. And they come in Yellow…




Turbobanana becomes VTECyobanana

Otherwise I’d also recommend browsing the ads at the back of one of the classic car mags and seeing what takes your eye.

Thanks PB, made me chuckle. I remember your travails after the 928 bit the dust. At least my pain is of my own making.

944S2 is a possibility, if I can find one that hasn't rusted yet.

[s m]

Turbobanana said:

ARE CARS LESS CHARACTERFUL THAN THEY USED TO BE?

I certainly think so in general
One person’s “character” is another’s “old and crap” though.

I think there must be a few that agree otherwise old Alfas, Fords and BMs etc wouldn’t fetch such big money

[coppice]

I started reading car magazines in 1967 and people have been bemoaning the good old days as long as I've been a car enthusiast. What changes more than the car is the person, who conflates the halcyon days of their youth with a glut of interesting cars on every street . But 'twas never thus - much as I still admire the Elans , Dinos and RS 2000s of my youth there was just as much grey porridge on the road then as there is now.

It speaks for the average age of the PH demographic that there is so much soft focus love for the Nineties - but that is just down to late thirty and forty somethings encountering their first brush of nostalgia. In thirty years time forty and fifty somethings will gush about the amazing machinery you could drive as the ICE car enjoyed its final drink in the last chance saloon , believe it .

[Turbobanana]

coppice said:

I started reading car magazines in 1967 and people have been bemoaning the good old days as long as I've been a car enthusiast. What changes more than the car is the person, who conflates the halcyon days of their youth with a glut of interesting cars on every street . But 'twas never thus - much as I still admire the Elans , Dinos and RS 2000s of my youth there was just as much grey porridge on the road then as there is now.

It speaks for the average age of the PH demographic that there is so much soft focus love for the Nineties - but that is just down to late thirty and forty somethings encountering their first brush of nostalgia. In thirty years time forty and fifty somethings will gush about the amazing machinery you could drive as the ICE car enjoyed its final drink in the last chance saloon , believe it .

Eloquent as ever, coppice, and quite true. I wonder whether I ought to have called the topic "Are new cars too good?" because I think it's the efficiency and lack of demand for attention that makes them characterless, in the eyes of us older folk anyway.

[aeropilot]

coppice said:

It speaks for the average age of the PH demographic that there is so much soft focus love for the Nineties - but that is just down to late thirty and forty somethings encountering their first brush of nostalgia. In thirty years time forty and fifty somethings will gush about the amazing machinery you could drive as the ICE car enjoyed its final drink in the last chance saloon , believe it .

Or more likely the gaming and IT geeks will be gushing over how collectable the first generation Tesla's of the pre-2020 era are now that the latest in hyperdrive nanospeed automated gizmo-widgets have become so soulless.....

[j4r4lly]

I think your later observation OP that modern cars are actually just very efficient is spot on.

We have a 2021 Kuga diesel mild hybrid as our main car. As an all rounder it's excellent. Comfortable, smooth, spacious and practical with excellent economy, decent performance and capable of covering long distances in comfort. It's a great "tool" for getting about, but it doesn't excite me and it's not very interesting.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing and older cars bring that out in spades. Driving the Capri is an event every time and it still drives surprisingly well with a lusty, character that encourages making progress. Last year I bought a 2003 Focus ST170 as I really rate the Mk1 Focus and wanted to grab a low mileage car while they are still affordable. Now I find that I can't stop finding an excuse to drive it. It's a personal thing obviously but it's such a superb riding and handling car with enough poke to make it interesting. Comfortable, well built and so usable it has really surprised me how much I enjoy using it, especially considering that although it's 19 years old this year, to me it's still a modern car.

Have you considered the Jaguar XJ's or XK's? Very affordable to buy and have an old world feel about them with lovely engines, supple ride and enough modern kit to make them practical. Nissan 350/370 Z is also a good call or if you could find a clean unmolested car, the BMW E46 coupe with 325/330i engines. Again, fairly modern but drive beautifully and the straight sixes are superb.

Edited by j4r4lly on Friday 10th June 11:18

[AC43]

j4r4lly said:

Have you considered the Jaguar XJ's or XK's? Very affordable to buy and have an old world feel about them with lovely engines, supple ride and enough modern kit to make them practical.

XK8 is a good shout. That and the Brera V6 are the two that have jumped out at me.

[vpr]

Absolutely they are.

Nobody makes a bad car, they’re all just too perfect.

Modern cars have no interest to me I’m happy to say.

Drive an old classic for example and it’s involving and no need to charge about at warp spend to see its limits.

[Roderick Spode]

I started a new job 2 years ago, and was presented with the list of available company vehicles. Everything from a Mitsubishi Mirage to an Audi Q3. Nothing whatsoever took my fancy, nor did any of the privately available vehicles for the cash alternative. Decided to opt out of the scheme and keep driving my 20 year old Saab diesel, and claim the HMRC mileage allowance instead. A lucrative option!

In recent times I have had cause to drive colleagues modern contraptions - a Volvo XC40 and a VW Golf mk8. Both had horrible hard seats, overly firm suspension, nervous twitchy steering, a plethora of driver 'aids' that get in the way, gutless engines, stupid infotainment systems incorporating the major functions so that changing the climate control settings was a prolonged and involved operation, and brakes that went "nothing... nothing... nothing... head through the windscreen". The Golf in particular was terrible to drive, with a dreadful notchy manual gearbox, far too many distracting bing bong messages on the dashboard, steering that was extremely nervous and required continuous corrections, adaptive cruise control that hit the brakes if a crisp packet blew across the road half a mile away, and seats that felt like park benches. I hated it with a passion.

My parents have recently bought themselves a new Kia X-Ceed or whatever it's called. Hideous. Huge on the outside, but comically microscopic on the inside. I genuinely laughed when I opened the boot - my father has a tripod walking frame, and it completely filled the load area. In my battered old Saab that sits off to one side in the cavernous boot, barely noticeable. My wife has taken on a new Audi Q2 for work, and that's the same story - a large car (to me anyway) on the outside, but with no space at all inside. Have car manufacturers forgotten how to do packaging?

The old Saab, dynamically, is by contrast a vastly inferior vehicle from two generations ago, and nobody in their right mind would actually choose it as an everyday vehicle over a modern contraption, but for me it's like a faithful old labrador. Not much to look at, tatty round the edges, slightly incontinent, but an old friend, and I enjoy driving it vastly more than any other car I've driven recently.

[DodgyGeezer]

I'd be looking:

SLK of some flavour
C5 Corvette
Fiat 124
370Z (if you can live with the light design)
S197 Mustang
TT

[aeropilot]

DodgyGeezer said:

I'd be looking:

SLK of some flavour
C5 Corvette
Fiat 124
370Z (if you can live with the light design)
S197 Mustang
TT

After 22 years ownership of a C900, I doubt any of those would tick any of his boxes.

The S197 would tick mine, as but despite years of previous Saab ownership, I also like crappy septic stuff
But I'd rather have a proper old yank, than a pretend old yank.

[QBee]

Not sure I can help you.

My daily is either a 2002 Saab 9-5 estate (I have dogs) or a 2005 mark 1 Nissan X Trail (I tow stuff and have dogs).
Both are too comfortable and capable to be special enough, and cost too little to suit your budget.

My something special is:



22 years old, 4.6 litres of hoot to drive, cheap tax and insurance and a great owners club/following.

[Turbobanana]

QBee said:

Not sure I can help you.

My daily is either a 2002 Saab 9-5 estate (I have dogs) or a 2005 mark 1 Nissan X Trail (I tow stuff and have dogs).
Both are too comfortable and capable to be special enough, and cost too little to suit your budget.

My something special is:



22 years old, 4.6 litres of hoot to drive, cheap tax and insurance and a great owners club/following.

You're doing it right, QBee. I could get on board with a TVR S2.

DodgyGeezer said:

SLK of some flavour
C5 Corvette
Fiat 124
370Z (if you can live with the light design)
S197 Mustang
TT

Would love any of those except the TT. 'Vette and 'Stang too big for the crappy garage.

I'm sort of chasing a Boxster at the moment, but it's Guards Red which I fear will become Guards Pink at some point.

[Duke Caboom]

As mentioned old cars have more character, but we all have different thresholds of where "character" becomes "out of date."

I wouldn't want to be manually adjusting the advance and retard on a daily, for example. Others might baulk at using a choke. I find that modern automatics, while incredibly clever, lack character over a manual. Which is why my modern 428i was replaced with a 20 year old 330i convertible. I have driven 205 GTIs and feel that 200 miles, for me, would feel like a long journey. (I have driven thousands of miles in old small sports cars, by the way, including driving them to rallies and hill climbs and then home again, but I was younger then)

As an aside my 986S was probably my favourite car I've ever owned. I prefer it to similar vintage 911s and, unless you need a back seat think it is more practical too.



I hear that you don't like 3 series but the 330i e46 convertible I have would also be a good replacement for the Saab. Comfee enough on a long journey, interesting enough everyday without being a pain, fun enough on the right road. I think great looking too. (not sure why I have a picture of it on a cold day, but here it is!)

Edited by Duke Caboom on Saturday 11th June 07:00

[aeropilot]

Turbobanana said:

I'm sort of chasing a Boxster at the moment, but it's Guards Red which I fear will become Guards Pink at some point.

To be fair, I've not seen too many Porsche's tuning pink.........maybe a few old 924's?

Unlike VW's, Fords and just about most other makes, because of the issue with pigments used in red paints and UV.

I still wouldn't risk it though.....

[s m]

Turbobanana said:

I'm sort of chasing a Boxster at the moment, but it's Guards Red which I fear will become Guards Pink at some point.

That’s the point you tell everyone it was a rare factory order Rubystone Red one Turbo …….