The only Lotus not revered?
Discussion
Pigeon said:
(not the Renault-engined version though).
Why?
Not so "pure", if that makes sense...
Sorry I don't understand, Chapman designed the europa to have a lightweight engine (like the alloy renault engine) but you prefer the expensive and heavy twink (IMO not a bad engine at all BUT...).
Chapmans whole eithos was light weight.
I think you mean the Renault engine is the purer, but comparatively underpowered.
This is easily sorted at reasonable cost.
Well, I always thought that they were designed for the twink, but production couldn't keep up with demand, so they used the Renault to "fill the hole". Therefore the Renault is "less pure" because it wasn't part of the original design.
Your argument that the Renault is "more pure" because its light weight is in keeping with Chapman's thinking is a good one, though, and does show me a different perspective to look from.
Your argument that the Renault is "more pure" because its light weight is in keeping with Chapman's thinking is a good one, though, and does show me a different perspective to look from.
Pigeon said:
Well, I always thought that they were designed for the twink, but production couldn't keep up with demand, so they used the Renault to "fill the hole".
No The twink didn't come into the equation until either late in the the Series 2 or early 3 (I can't remember). The S1 and most (if not all) of the S2 had the alloy motor.
Basically although the renault 'low spec' engine cars had good performance for the day, It wasn't as staggering as Chapman wanted. Lotus wanted the higher powered version of the renault engine but alpine said NO (regretfully IMO). So Chapman had to look elsewhere for the power he wanted.
There isn't an enourmous expense for the alloy motor to give out 125bhp (similar to the standard twink) but it can get quite expensive to get 175bhp (almost as expensive as upgrading the twink)
Andrew Noakes said:
IMO they should've offered a turbo version, updated alongside the Esprit.
At the time Lotus said the turbo engine wouldn't fit in the Excel, though that might just have been a convenient excuse.
Definately an excuse, seeing as though both the Esprit and Elite/Eclat/Excel's engine bays were all designed around a 4.4-litre V8 that was never put into production.
Ever seen under an excel's bonnet? Loads of space for a Garret T2 in there.
v8thunder said:
Andrew Noakes said:
v8thunder said:
IMO they should've offered a turbo version, updated alongside the Esprit.
At the time Lotus said the turbo engine wouldn't fit in the Excel, though that might just have been a convenient excuse.
Definately an excuse, seeing as though both the Esprit and Elite/Eclat/Excel's engine bays were all designed around a 4.4-litre V8 that was never put into production.
Ever seen under an excel's bonnet? Loads of space for a Garret T2 in there.
Why on earth would they bother with an excuse ?
The Excel sold in low volumes, it wasn't worth re-engineering to meet post 92 emission regs (cats, injection etc) so was withdrawn. I think Tony Rudd's biography covers why the Excel was never turbo charged, but I don't have it to hand at the moment. Something to do with there not being room for the turbo I believe (there is very little clearance between the exhaust and the passenger footwell) and the heat problem.
Paul (owner of an Excel SE since 1995)
PS A set of pistons AND matching nikasil-coated (SE only) liners is about £2k. I believe it is possible to get them cheaper, but may not be original manufacturer.
>> Edited by B16 RFF on Wednesday 8th December 03:02
>> Edited by B16 RFF on Wednesday 8th December 03:05
IOLAIRE said:
[quote=mustard]Lotus parts have consistently been the biggest rip off in the whole country, ever since the sixties.
A great deal of their stuff is simply mass produced parts from other vehicles reboxed and multiplied by 50 in price!!
.
Correction. A lot of their stuff is mass produced stuff that they modify, sometimes quite subtly, to their own spec. As I found out the hard way when I changed the clutch on my Elan +2. Yes, there is a mark up, but nowhere near what you suggest, although you were no doubt exaggerating for effect. I for one find it's worth it to get parts you know will fit and are up to the job.
Paul.
Chapman used the renault drivetrain in the S1 and S2 Europa, because it was easily available and cheap.
The Twin-Cam was installed because of the want/need for more power that Renault wouldn't supply with the Gordini engine. The Twin-Cam was already in use in the Elan, so in it went. Yes it is ~100 lbs heavier than the Renault engine, but it made 30ish more hp (stock vs stock).
That said, the Renault engine is still 'pure' as Lotus did use their own pistons and cams, so it isn't a straight stock Renault engine.
I've driven a Renault powered S2 and it was a blast. 80 or so hp would humble many a newer, more powerful car, including WRX's, on an autocross course.
I'd agree with the original post that the Eclat/Elite were never as popular as the other models. While I'm not a huge fan of the look, I'd have one any day of the week. Would definately prefer an original Elite though!
Gary
The Twin-Cam was installed because of the want/need for more power that Renault wouldn't supply with the Gordini engine. The Twin-Cam was already in use in the Elan, so in it went. Yes it is ~100 lbs heavier than the Renault engine, but it made 30ish more hp (stock vs stock).
That said, the Renault engine is still 'pure' as Lotus did use their own pistons and cams, so it isn't a straight stock Renault engine.
I've driven a Renault powered S2 and it was a blast. 80 or so hp would humble many a newer, more powerful car, including WRX's, on an autocross course.
I'd agree with the original post that the Eclat/Elite were never as popular as the other models. While I'm not a huge fan of the look, I'd have one any day of the week. Would definately prefer an original Elite though!
Gary
A friend of mine has got an immaculate JPS Eclat in immaculate condition with biscuit interior which has a Vegantune 200bhp engine in it with very few miles on it. It's been garaged for most of it's life and is therefore in showroom order. He bought it in about 1986 and it's been one of those cars that despite it's rarity has never ever gone up in value so there it stays, waiting for the day when someone somewhere might appreciate it.
It sits alongside an Elise S2 which also gets used infrequently.
It sits alongside an Elise S2 which also gets used infrequently.
Veering back on topic slightly, I was told that the factory used a couple of Excels as test mules when they were developing the V8 engine. Last known location was one in the UK and the other went to Germany. Don't know if this was fact or fiction but the thought of 350 bhp under the bonnet of my car always brings me out in a cold sweat!
Oh yeah,and a happy christmas and a good new year to one and all.
Oh yeah,and a happy christmas and a good new year to one and all.
Lotus have always used model names begining with E for no other reason than tradition. One of those little things that just happened.
Years ago Lotus put out a comp' for joe public to come up with a name for the new Esprit, model name must begin with the letter E. I suggested ETNA and never heard a thing back.
Years ago Lotus put out a comp' for joe public to come up with a name for the new Esprit, model name must begin with the letter E. I suggested ETNA and never heard a thing back.
The story I've heard was that after the 'Eleven', Chapman just liked how the 'E' sound flowed after Lotus, so named them all with E-names. However, if you recite them all, you'll notice the 'Europa' has a completely different sound, and as such, doesn't flow off the tongue as easily as Elan, Esprit, Eclat, Elite, Eleven.
Gary
Gary
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