Discussion
ettore said:
I also enjoy Martin Buckley`s scribblings (one of the reasons to buy Classic Cars). However, according to the last edition, he is returning to Classic & Sportscar. I also note that his column in Evo went missing this month.
Martin is indeed now writing for Classic & Sports Car. He's writing a column, a couple of features and also an occasional "our classics" for us every month.
Just to round off this thread,maybe?, I usually buy a copy of Classiccars at my local newsagent in Eye. This month its not on the shelves, asking why I was told that unless the agent can sell a minimum of 5 copies monthly they are not offered the mag from the publisher.
It gets worse, I have tried everywhere to get my copy including Ipswich and Diss with no joy.
Come on publishers we dont all live in the city. Looks like I will have to order future copies then. Only problem for me is I loaned my Brother my back copies so has anyone got a contact for ordering direct please
Tamuchly
It gets worse, I have tried everywhere to get my copy including Ipswich and Diss with no joy.
Come on publishers we dont all live in the city. Looks like I will have to order future copies then. Only problem for me is I loaned my Brother my back copies so has anyone got a contact for ordering direct please
Tamuchlycrankedup said:
Just to round off this thread,maybe?, I usually buy a copy of Classiccars at my local newsagent in Eye. This month its not on the shelves, asking why I was told that unless the agent can sell a minimum of 5 copies monthly they are not offered the mag from the publisher.
It gets worse, I have tried everywhere to get my copy including Ipswich and Diss with no joy.
Come on publishers we dont all live in the city. Looks like I will have to order future copies then. Only problem for me is I loaned my Brother my back copies so has anyone got a contact for ordering direct please
All branches of WH Smiths have loads of them, as does Borders.
v8thunder said:
Just to round off this thread,maybe?, I usually buy a copy of Classiccars at my local newsagent in Eye. This month its not on the shelves, asking why I was told that unless the agent can sell a minimum of 5 copies monthly they are not offered the mag from the publisher.
It gets worse, I have tried everywhere to get my copy including Ipswich and Diss with no joy.
Come on publishers we dont all live in the city. Looks like I will have to order future copies then. Only problem for me is I loaned my Brother my back copies so has anyone got a contact for ordering direct please
All branches of WH Smiths have loads of them, as does Borders.
I'll declare an interest - I publish Classic & Sports Car, and also Motor Sport magazine.
What you've said about your local newsagent not being able to get supplies unless he sells 5 copies sounds odd - it might be that classic cars have cut their print run in a big to be more efficient. In theory though our distribution systems are geared up to supply as many copies of a magazine as are needed on a store by store basis. If your local store has regularly sold you one copy, they should at least be able to ask for that.
On the WHSmith front, they're what's known as a "range retailer" in that they deliberately stock a wide range of titles from a wide range of sectors (unlike supermarkets who limit themselves to a small number of titles from best selling sectors). In theory you should find Classic Cars in most stores, but as it sells comfortably less than Classic & Sports Car and Practical Classics, smaller stores will probably only stock these two titles.
Anyway, you've got the wrong mag - it's Classic & Sports Car that you should be reading
Griffophenia said:
I'll declare an interest - I publish Classic & Sports Car, and also Motor Sport magazine.
Anyway, you've got the wrong mag - it's Classic & Sports Car that you should be reading
Good magazine Stuart, Ive just taken out a years subscription.
Phil[/quote]
Top man Phil!
Was in WHS a while ago browsing magazines and contemplating the purchase of Classic & Sportscar when I noticed how much the cover prices of magazines appear to be creeping up. Typically £3.50 to £4.95 This, when very often the ammount of advertising in them far outweighs any new journalistic content. On the classic car scene, it's obvious that many of the articles are peddled round a number of mags and recycled.
Decided to vote with my feet and went to an Oxfam bookshop where for a couple of quid I picked up The TOTAL Book of Car Improvements and Accessories.
First published in 1980, it brought back happy memories and covers such gems as 'Fitting a vinyl roof kit', 'Choosing and fitting reversing lights', 'Fitting a rear screen heater' and 'Fitting a vacuum gauge' (what happened to them?)
Two quid well spent and the satisfaction of knowing the money was going to a good cause!.
I like magazines but it strikes me that they're pricing themselves out of the market.
I know that distribution costs are high, so why not publish an e-magazine instead?
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Sunday 12th December 13:50
Decided to vote with my feet and went to an Oxfam bookshop where for a couple of quid I picked up The TOTAL Book of Car Improvements and Accessories.
First published in 1980, it brought back happy memories and covers such gems as 'Fitting a vinyl roof kit', 'Choosing and fitting reversing lights', 'Fitting a rear screen heater' and 'Fitting a vacuum gauge' (what happened to them?)
Two quid well spent and the satisfaction of knowing the money was going to a good cause!.
I like magazines but it strikes me that they're pricing themselves out of the market.
I know that distribution costs are high, so why not publish an e-magazine instead?
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Sunday 12th December 13:50
Yes the cover prices do appear high on some mag's, but when you really look at what you get for £3.80 a month I reckon its well worth the money. I usually spend 2 months reading my copy, just relaxing in front of the fire. Lets face it, a poxy Sunday newspaper will cost around £1.65 and most of that is dross 
Must admit tho I am more selective these days which is why I asked about mag's at the start.
Classic & Sportscar
Classiccars
Autocar
Practical Classics
All float my boat for about £16 a month.
Whoops forgot one : Wife swop international
Hey Phill, did you get yer free toolkit then or polishing gear?
Must admit tho I am more selective these days which is why I asked about mag's at the start.
Classic & Sportscar
Classiccars
Autocar
Practical Classics
All float my boat for about £16 a month.
Whoops forgot one : Wife swop international
Hey Phill, did you get yer free toolkit then or polishing gear?
sparkythecat said:
Was in WHS a while ago browsing magazines and contemplating the purchase of Classic & Sportscar when I noticed how much the cover prices of magazines appear to be creeping up. Typically £3.50 to £4.95 This, when very often the ammount of advertising in them far outweighs any new journalistic content. On the classic car scene, it's obvious that many of the articles are peddled round a number of mags and recycled.
Decided to vote with my feet and went to an Oxfam bookshop where for a couple of quid I picked up The TOTAL Book of Car Improvements and Accessories.
First published in 1980, it brought back happy memories and covers such gems as 'Fitting a vinyl roof kit', 'Choosing and fitting reversing lights', 'Fitting a rear screen heater' and 'Fitting a vacuum gauge' (what happened to them?)
Two quid well spent and the satisfaction of knowing the money was going to a good cause!.
I like magazines but it strikes me that they're pricing themselves out of the market.
I know that distribution costs are high, so why not publish an e-magazine instead?
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Sunday 12th December 13:50
Well, you've raised a few points here. I know that magazine prices feel like they're creeping up - it feels like that for the mags that I buy. As you say, it's a distribution heavy business and we're at the mercy of everyone from the paper mill to the delivery driver to your local newsagent; they all want a cut. In real terms though magazine prices haven't gone up by anything more than inflation (in most cases anyway, particularly this sector) it's just that as they are a more occasional and discretionary purchase you tend to notice more.
We relaunched C&SC earlier in the year with more pages (editorial not advertising), bigger paper, heavier paper, and all for the same price - £3.80. So we're actually better value. The best way of getting any magazine is to subscribe though - compare the prices and you'll find that with us you save a fair whack off the news stand price.
Why don't we publish an e-magazine? Very simply because the public don't want it. You come here for information, banter, and many other things, but you don't come here to lose yourself in an 8 page drive story on an Alfa 8c, or for Buckley's column or any of the other more abstract things you'll find in the mag.
Fact is that I can happily lose 20 minutes on the lav reading this months Classic & Sports Car (or practical beekeeper or model tractor enthusiast or whatever else floats your boat). You can't do that with a PC. Not without making a dreadful mess anyway....
Stuart,
May I be so bold as to request a few comments from you relating to the discussion here:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=139260&f=42&h=0
As an avid reader of MOTOR SPORT for 25yrs (I first discovered the publication from my father's collection dating to the '50s) I'm not convinced the new makeover will benefit circulation figures. I still enjoy the magazine and would like to be proved wrong.
By definition, MOTOR SPORT's very ethos will always be seen as "esoteric" in comparison to more modern fashion-lead publications. IMHO the magazine is unrivalled in its pedigree, and if changes need to be made then possibly efforts to publicise the brand could be the way to go, rather than adapt the magazine to portray a homogenous appearance akin to other of-the-moment motoring publications.
When I first went to buy the new-look MS I could not find it on the shelves, and only after searching and skimming the first few pages did I even realise it was the same publication.
I'll still read the current issue on the train tomorrow, it's just that I'm not a big fan of the new layout.
Other than that, keep up the good work!
May I be so bold as to request a few comments from you relating to the discussion here:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=139260&f=42&h=0
As an avid reader of MOTOR SPORT for 25yrs (I first discovered the publication from my father's collection dating to the '50s) I'm not convinced the new makeover will benefit circulation figures. I still enjoy the magazine and would like to be proved wrong.
By definition, MOTOR SPORT's very ethos will always be seen as "esoteric" in comparison to more modern fashion-lead publications. IMHO the magazine is unrivalled in its pedigree, and if changes need to be made then possibly efforts to publicise the brand could be the way to go, rather than adapt the magazine to portray a homogenous appearance akin to other of-the-moment motoring publications.
When I first went to buy the new-look MS I could not find it on the shelves, and only after searching and skimming the first few pages did I even realise it was the same publication.
I'll still read the current issue on the train tomorrow, it's just that I'm not a big fan of the new layout.
Other than that, keep up the good work!
I hadn't seen that thread, so yes, by all means. Very simply we chose to change the design of the magazine to appeal to new readers because, provided that you don't alienate existing readers, that's the most effective way of doing so. We could spend far more money than we do publicising it, but I'm not convinced that it would've had any effect.
I think you've hit the nail on the head in that the contents haven't changed since the redesign. We've introduced some modern sports car content, albeit in context and only when appropriate. We've upped our coverage of historic motor racing and we've given the editor more pages to play with each month.
The idea was that we do nothing to alienate existing readers and, whilst there has been considerable debate about the look and feel of the magazine, I don't believe we've done anything to the content to do so. Boddy is still in the magazine, as is Taylor and the other voices that readers enjoy. The intention was that we produce a magazine to appeal to what we believe is a new audience for this subject matter; people who have seen older cars in action at events such as Goodwood, or Classic Le Mans, or "See Red" or anywhere else, but who might not find the old style Motor Sport particularly inviting or appealing.
Like it or not, Motor Sport's readership has been in decline for many years. The core readership grows ever older and the style of the magazine simply didn't encourage new readers to pick it up. Marry this with the need to be even more competitive than ever on the bookstall, and we had to do something to give the magazine more impact.
Now, I know that one of the big criticisms of the decision to go red is that many magazines on the bookstall are also red. That's true up to a point (although in fact in the classic and historic market Motor Sport is the only one) but it's also true for a reason - red is a colour which catches the eye of consumers more readily than green. If you've been used to looking for a green cover for many years then you'll doubtless disagree, but when you consider that we needed to make the magazine appeal to potential as well as existing readers, then red was the most effective way of doing so.
As for the design itself, it always takes a few issues for any re-design to settle down. More so when a magazine has been published for as long as Motor Sport. We lack the finances (and, frankly, the will) to test every page on a focus group before we publish. We know that the early issues had some glitches and we're making subtle changes as we go on to iron these out. We feel that regular readers are getting used to the change now and, because fundamentally they're being given more of the same content, enjoying it as they always have. Our letters bag has certainly calmed down anyway!
Is it working? It is too early to say but it certainly isn't having a negative effect, and the reception from the news trade (who, in controlling access to ever smaller swathes of magazine shef space, are critically important) has been extremely positive.
I'm glad that you still like the magazine - I'd appreciate your thoughts on it as time goes on.
I think you've hit the nail on the head in that the contents haven't changed since the redesign. We've introduced some modern sports car content, albeit in context and only when appropriate. We've upped our coverage of historic motor racing and we've given the editor more pages to play with each month.
The idea was that we do nothing to alienate existing readers and, whilst there has been considerable debate about the look and feel of the magazine, I don't believe we've done anything to the content to do so. Boddy is still in the magazine, as is Taylor and the other voices that readers enjoy. The intention was that we produce a magazine to appeal to what we believe is a new audience for this subject matter; people who have seen older cars in action at events such as Goodwood, or Classic Le Mans, or "See Red" or anywhere else, but who might not find the old style Motor Sport particularly inviting or appealing.
Like it or not, Motor Sport's readership has been in decline for many years. The core readership grows ever older and the style of the magazine simply didn't encourage new readers to pick it up. Marry this with the need to be even more competitive than ever on the bookstall, and we had to do something to give the magazine more impact.
Now, I know that one of the big criticisms of the decision to go red is that many magazines on the bookstall are also red. That's true up to a point (although in fact in the classic and historic market Motor Sport is the only one) but it's also true for a reason - red is a colour which catches the eye of consumers more readily than green. If you've been used to looking for a green cover for many years then you'll doubtless disagree, but when you consider that we needed to make the magazine appeal to potential as well as existing readers, then red was the most effective way of doing so.
As for the design itself, it always takes a few issues for any re-design to settle down. More so when a magazine has been published for as long as Motor Sport. We lack the finances (and, frankly, the will) to test every page on a focus group before we publish. We know that the early issues had some glitches and we're making subtle changes as we go on to iron these out. We feel that regular readers are getting used to the change now and, because fundamentally they're being given more of the same content, enjoying it as they always have. Our letters bag has certainly calmed down anyway!
Is it working? It is too early to say but it certainly isn't having a negative effect, and the reception from the news trade (who, in controlling access to ever smaller swathes of magazine shef space, are critically important) has been extremely positive.
I'm glad that you still like the magazine - I'd appreciate your thoughts on it as time goes on.
stuart_forrest said:
We relaunched C&SC earlier in the year with more pages (editorial not advertising), bigger paper, heavier paper, and all for the same price - £3.80. So we're actually better value. The best way of getting any magazine is to subscribe though - compare the prices and you'll find that with us you save a fair whack off the news stand price.
Why don't we publish an e-magazine? Very simply because the public don't want it. You come here for information, banter, and many other things, but you don't come here to lose yourself in an 8 page drive story on an Alfa 8c, or for Buckley's column or any of the other more abstract things you'll find in the mag.
Fact is that I can happily lose 20 minutes on the lav reading this months Classic & Sports Car (or practical beekeeper or model tractor enthusiast or whatever else floats your boat). You can't do that with a PC. Not without making a dreadful mess anyway....
Bigger paper, heavier paper and more pages all for the same price seems to embrace the " never mind the quality, feel the width" philosophy or in more modern parlance " Have it larged for the same price"
It's interesting that in the USA, where because of the vast distances involved, one would expect distribution costs to be even higher, magazines appear to represent much better value for money. Editorial content is paramount and advertising is very much more constrained. In many magazines there is little more than a mailable insert containing details of contributing advertisers which you must use to find out more from them, rather than having to wade through swathes of full page adverts to get at what you really want to read.
For example, a typical niche motoring publication is Grass Roots Motorsport whose technical journalism is excellent. www.grmotorsports.com/
Compared with the £34 subscription for 12 issues of a typical UK mag, GRM represents phenomenal value at $32 for 8 issues including the International postage to Europe.
So why this apparent disparity?
One is left to conclude that the only reason that such a plethora of magazine titles abound in the UK, must surely be that they are incredibly profitable and therefore, we as readers are undoubtedly being short-changed.
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Sunday 12th December 23:04
sparkythecat said:
Bigger paper, heavier paper and more pages all for the same price seems to embrace the " never mind the quality, feel the width" philosophy or in more modern parlance " Have it larged for the same price"
It's interesting that in the USA, where because of the vast distances involved, one would expect distribution costs to be even higher, magazines appear to represent much better value for money. Editorial content is paramount and advertising is very much more constrained. In many magazines there is little more than a mailable insert containing details of contributing advertisers which you must use to find out more from them, rather than having to wade through swathes of full page adverts to get at what you really want to read.
For example, a typical niche motoring publication is Grass Roots Motorsport whose technical journalism is excellent. <a href="http://www.grmotorsports.com/">www.grmotorsports.com/</a>
Compared with the £34 subscription for 12 issues of a typical UK mag, GRM represents phenomenal value at $32 for 8 issues including the International postage to Europe.
So why this apparent disparity?
One is left to conclude that the only reason that such a plethora of magazine titles abound in the UK, must surely be that they are incredibly profitable and therefore, we as readers are undoubtedly being short-changed.
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Sunday 12th December 23:04
Grass Roots Motor Sport is, at a guess, a fraction of the size of Classic & Sports Car each month. This alone explains why a subscription is far cheaper - it just costs less to post than our magazine does.
Apart from that, there are other reasons why US magazine subscriptions are cheaper. Firstly the cost of distribution is actually lower than in the UK. Something to do with the near monopoly on distribution enjoyed by the Royal Mail I'm sure, but nonetheless true. Another reason is that, in the US, advertising is sold based on a circulation figure guaranteed by the publisher. If this sales figure isn't achieved then there are stiff financial penalties to be paid back to the advertiser. This means that publishers go all out to guarantee circulation, and one of the best ways of doing this is through discounted subscriptions sales.
In the UK the market swings far more in favour of news stand sales, and the emphasis here is on capturing more fickle buyers with bigger and better magazines than the competition (witness the tuning market here where every magazine must have a giveaway ever issue just to guarantee minimum sales). This is an entirely different raison d'etre than with a magazine based on subscription sales where a publisher has the sale in the bag in advance. I for one think that if publishers have to work hard to win readers each month then the consumer is the winner.
I'm not sure that your point about advertising is accurate. Possibly in a very niche title such as Grass Roots Motor Sport (and even then I'm sure the publisher would welcome a few more ad pages if they were to come his way) but in most mainstream titles there are just as many advertising pages as in the UK.
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