Ultra rare mk 1 Escort at upcoming auction
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
I would expect an Alfa 1300 Junior to see off an Escort on a twisty road. I think that the 1300 Junior may be the best balanced car that I have ever driven. In the early 70s, assuming similar levels of driver ability in the contending cars, you'd need a Lotus to keep up with the Alfa through a series of fast bends.
Agree. My nipper has a 1600 GT Junior and it handles and rides superbly. Almost any other car of the period was better engineered than an Escort but they did the job
vpr said:
Breadvan72 said:
I would expect an Alfa 1300 Junior to see off an Escort on a twisty road. I think that the 1300 Junior may be the best balanced car that I have ever driven. In the early 70s, assuming similar levels of driver ability in the contending cars, you'd need a Lotus to keep up with the Alfa through a series of fast bends.
Agree. My nipper has a 1600 GT Junior and it handles and rides superbly. Almost any other car of the period was better engineered than an Escort but they did the job
I’d love to drive a 105 Alfa though.
Then the Alfasud came along, and the 105 Alfas were history. A period CAR road test in '74 between an RS2000, 1200Ti Sud and and Audi 80GT showed how good the Alfa was - it would corner 10 mph faster than the RS.
I first drove a Sud in 1984 and was astonished at how fast it would go cross country and it was utterly forgiving. In my Newbury days, the B4494 from there to Wantage was a good fast road and the Sud could do the 15 miles in as many minutes driven flat out. Not bad for 1200 cc and 68 bhp.
I first drove a Sud in 1984 and was astonished at how fast it would go cross country and it was utterly forgiving. In my Newbury days, the B4494 from there to Wantage was a good fast road and the Sud could do the 15 miles in as many minutes driven flat out. Not bad for 1200 cc and 68 bhp.
There is a Sud for sale in Manchester at a non silly price. I just said no to a 1975 Alfetta GT. Should I buy the Sud?
Maybe not - for FWD Italofun I already have a Lancia Beta.
My late dad would laugh, if he could, to hear how valuable his somewhat rubbish Mark 2 Escort (ex Police) would be now if it has survived.
Maybe not - for FWD Italofun I already have a Lancia Beta.
My late dad would laugh, if he could, to hear how valuable his somewhat rubbish Mark 2 Escort (ex Police) would be now if it has survived.
Breadvan72 said:
There is a Sud for sale in Manchester at a non silly price. I just said no to a 1975 Alfetta GT. Should I buy the Sud?
This Bad Boy?https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfasud-Sprint-1-5-Clov...
It depends how rotten it is.
And by Christ, could these rot. The late ones were bad. The early ones a scandal.
They were rotten 30 years ago. I had a 1979 Alfetta 1.6 GTS and it was b
ksed in 1994. Clinging to an MOT. They were every bit as bad as the Sud no matter what the Nord fanbois say. I was buying decent Alfasuds 35 years ago for £500 tops so any more than that is silly to me. :-)
Genuine question: Can someone identify a 1970s or 1980s car with a body made of steel that would not rust if (a) not given rust protection, and (b) driven and parked in the UK?
I am intrigued by the notion, common even amongst petrolheads, that rust discriminates on the basis of badge, or country of origin.
If you go onto UK oriented specialist fora for pretty much any 70s or 80s car, made anywhere, the cry is always "Crikey, what rotters they are!"
Is there an exception to this? I can think of one: Any car, with any badge, from any country, that was zapped with Ziebart or Waxoyl when new, kept mainly in a garage, and hosed off after muddy and/or salty drives. I have seen a few such cars. They are er.... not rusty. They are also very rare.
Over in the modern bits of PH, it seems that all the modern car enthusiasts are always banging on about how rusty the metal boxes that sit around the ten year old computers on wheels are.
I am intrigued by the notion, common even amongst petrolheads, that rust discriminates on the basis of badge, or country of origin.
If you go onto UK oriented specialist fora for pretty much any 70s or 80s car, made anywhere, the cry is always "Crikey, what rotters they are!"
Is there an exception to this? I can think of one: Any car, with any badge, from any country, that was zapped with Ziebart or Waxoyl when new, kept mainly in a garage, and hosed off after muddy and/or salty drives. I have seen a few such cars. They are er.... not rusty. They are also very rare.
Over in the modern bits of PH, it seems that all the modern car enthusiasts are always banging on about how rusty the metal boxes that sit around the ten year old computers on wheels are.
Breadvan72 said:
Is there an exception to this? I can think of one: Any car, with any badge, from any country, that was zapped with Ziebart or Waxoyl when new, kept mainly in a garage, and hosed off after muddy and/or salty drives. I have seen a few such cars. They are er.... not rusty. They are also very rare.
Did you mean can, or did you mean can't..?Breadvan72 said:
Genuine question: Can someone identify a 1970s or 1980s car with a body made of steel that would not rust if (a) not given rust protection, and (b) driven and parked in the UK?
I am intrigued by the notion, common even amongst petrolheads, that rust discriminates on the basis of badge, or country of origin.
If you go onto UK oriented specialist fora for pretty much any 70s or 80s car, made anywhere, the cry is always "Crikey, what rotters they are!"
Is there an exception to this? I can think of one: Any car, with any badge, from any country, that was zapped with Ziebart or Waxoyl when new, kept mainly in a garage, and hosed off after muddy and/or salty drives. I have seen a few such cars. They are er.... not rusty. They are also very rare.
Over in the modern bits of PH, it seems that all the modern car enthusiasts are always banging on about how rusty the metal boxes that sit around the ten year old computers on wheels are.
Actually, not taking the Michael but the Austin Allegro was the most rust resistant car of its day. I am intrigued by the notion, common even amongst petrolheads, that rust discriminates on the basis of badge, or country of origin.
If you go onto UK oriented specialist fora for pretty much any 70s or 80s car, made anywhere, the cry is always "Crikey, what rotters they are!"
Is there an exception to this? I can think of one: Any car, with any badge, from any country, that was zapped with Ziebart or Waxoyl when new, kept mainly in a garage, and hosed off after muddy and/or salty drives. I have seen a few such cars. They are er.... not rusty. They are also very rare.
Over in the modern bits of PH, it seems that all the modern car enthusiasts are always banging on about how rusty the metal boxes that sit around the ten year old computers on wheels are.
It’s true, they were good
Breadvan72 said:
I would expect an Alfa 1300 Junior to see off an Escort on a twisty road. I think that the 1300 Junior may be the best balanced car that I have ever driven. In the early 70s, assuming similar levels of driver ability in the contending cars, you'd need a Lotus to keep up with the Alfa through a series of fast bends.
You’d certainly have thought so - so did we when he got it Was a nice little car with the 5-speed and twin carbs etc. It did feel more solid as I recall but I think the Escort was a lot lighter ( as I recall it had a bit more rubber too thanks to a set of Mk1 RS alloys ) and just felt perkier at low speeds for whatever reason
Did run out of legs at.....ahem ....slightly faster speeds compared to the Alfa though.
The premature rusting of Italian cars, was said to be because of the quality of cheap Russian steel, that was said to have been used? Could be just hearsay though?
I don’t think that it’s a myth, that, in similar circumstances, Italian cars did rust faster than Northern European cars. I remember a Lancia Beta saloon my old boss bought at a couple of years old...
I don’t think that it’s a myth, that, in similar circumstances, Italian cars did rust faster than Northern European cars. I remember a Lancia Beta saloon my old boss bought at a couple of years old...
Legacywr said:
The premature rusting of Italian cars, was said to be because of the quality of cheap Russian steel, that was said to have been used? Could be just hearsay though?
I don’t think that it’s a myth, that, in similar circumstances, Italian cars did rust faster than Northern European cars. I remember a Lancia Beta saloon my old boss bought at a couple of years old...
Cheap (and crap) steel supply to Italy was allegedly part of the deal for the Fiat 124 production deal that became the Lada.I don’t think that it’s a myth, that, in similar circumstances, Italian cars did rust faster than Northern European cars. I remember a Lancia Beta saloon my old boss bought at a couple of years old...
I have looked, but have not found a credible source for the Russian steel story. Urban myths have legs of their own. In the case of Lancia, a campaign by the Daily Mirror formed part of the myth making, and unstrategic thinking by Lancia PR/legal helped the myth along. Add in a bit of Jeremy Clarkson (remember him?), and you have the perfect pub wisdom.
"They all rotted on the dealer forecourts, mate", says the random pub geezer at the petrol station, whilst looking at a car over forty years old that is still made (at least partly or even mostly) out of metal, some or even much of which may have been there when the car left the factory. My view, based on owning all sorts of classic cars since the 1980s, is that they all rust pretty much the same, except for the ones that have been protected from rust in some way.
The Ford Escort fans whom I know tell me tales of amazing rustiness, even though the steel may have come from Sheffield and not from Sevastopol. They get the rust fixed.
"They all rotted on the dealer forecourts, mate", says the random pub geezer at the petrol station, whilst looking at a car over forty years old that is still made (at least partly or even mostly) out of metal, some or even much of which may have been there when the car left the factory. My view, based on owning all sorts of classic cars since the 1980s, is that they all rust pretty much the same, except for the ones that have been protected from rust in some way.
The Ford Escort fans whom I know tell me tales of amazing rustiness, even though the steel may have come from Sheffield and not from Sevastopol. They get the rust fixed.
Breadvan72 said:
The Ford Escort fans whom I know tell me tales of amazing rustiness, even though the steel may have come from Sheffield and not from Sevastopol. They get the rust fixed.
Everything from that era rusted like crazy.Most designs of the time were not great, with loads of rust traps in the underbody areas, there was zero factory rust protection, build quality was not great either. Have you seen how rusty a 70's Rolls Silver Shadow can be..!!
Breadvan72 said:
aeropilot said:
Cheap (and crap) steel supply to Italy was allegedly part of the deal for the Fiat 124 production deal that became the Lada.
Source?
just one of many useless facts (or myths) tucked away in the memory banks from years of reading car mags and articles from all sources. I have absolutely no idea where I read it, must must have been in one of the classic car mags from years back at a guess. Alfa steel of that period was recycled crap - put rusty metal in a furnace and the rust doesn't just vanish, it always comes back unless it's properly treated (i.e adding enough carbon) which that junk wasn't. The rust was still in there which is why you'd get rust sprouting from the middle of a door or roof skin for no reason. Early Suds would need front wings and a screen out repaint at 12-18 months old snd very few 73/74 Suds made their fourth MOT. That cheap steel was also a right b*stard to weld to as well.
Allegros and Princesses were very hardy for their time as were Saab 99's and Volvo 240's. Early Golfs were crap and anything Karmann built was invariably a rot box (Scirocco Mark 1, BMW Coupes).
Allegros and Princesses were very hardy for their time as were Saab 99's and Volvo 240's. Early Golfs were crap and anything Karmann built was invariably a rot box (Scirocco Mark 1, BMW Coupes).
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff