The Ultimate Sierra Cosworth?

[sortedcossie]

gingerbeard said:

Hi all,

I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.

Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.

It has an upgraded turbo and racing type hoses etc but I do not know much about the turbo. Was previous used as a race car but interior is all standard, recaros etc and bodywork is mint with full under seal protection and no rust anywhere.

These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it but the owner is just rich (has an original capri 2.8 with 30k on the clock, a full equipped race ready 993 911, a z-cars mini (£16.5k) and another mini with 2 hyabusa engines in it (not for sale) and a whole bunch of other cars!

I have posted in the finance section for advice but can anyone tell me the best/cheapest way to finance it please?

This is my dream car that I had a poster of on my wall as a child and the closet I have come is an A-reg XR4i. I simply cannot miss this opportunity!

Thanks a lot,

Chris

Can's say about the finance, but I can't see that being a 70k car once done given that it's modded and has track/race history. 70k is concours low mileage territory, obviously we haven't viewed it but it doesn't sound like it's that level.

Just as an example this 2wd with nice mileage, standard car, is £40k ready to use: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15787288

4x4 here that needs recommissioning for £30k: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/16903733

good luck with it though! Owned a 4x4 Cosworth before my Escort.

[CKY]

So the 4WD variant was only 0.2 seconds quicker from 0-60mph but somehow 0.9 seconds quicker by the 0-100mph point? Anyone else guessing the 4WD model wasn't running standard power?

[aeropilot]

gingerbeard said:

Hi all,

I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.

Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.

It has an upgraded turbo and racing type hoses etc but I do not know much about the turbo. Was previous used as a race car but interior is all standard, recaros etc and bodywork is mint with full under seal protection and no rust anywhere.

These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it but the owner is just rich (has an original capri 2.8 with 30k on the clock, a full equipped race ready 993 911, a z-cars mini (£16.5k) and another mini with 2 hyabusa engines in it (not for sale) and a whole bunch of other cars!

I have posted in the finance section for advice but can anyone tell me the best/cheapest way to finance it please?

This is my dream car that I had a poster of on my wall as a child and the closet I have come is an A-reg XR4i. I simply cannot miss this opportunity!

Thanks a lot,

Chris

Err........not sure where you think H-reg 4-door's are 'going for 70k these days'.......???

It would have to be a sub-10k mile all original and unmolested car to get even close to that figure, and that would be trader selling price as well.
From your description of the car, even 40k sounds a bit high....considering there are plenty of cheaper ones currently for sale, so not sure why you think this particular car is an opportunity not to miss....?

Perhaps you need to step back from the cliff edge a little.....?

[Muzzer79]

gingerbeard said:

Hi all,

I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.

Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.

These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it

Where are barnfind Sapphire Cosworths going for about £70k?

Are you sure you're not looking at 3drs?

[Lincsls1]

Yep, caution required here me thinks.

[aeropilot]

Muzzer79 said:

gingerbeard said:

Hi all,

I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.

Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.

These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it

Where are barnfind Sapphire Cosworths going for about £70k?

Are you sure you're not looking at 3drs?

Indeed.
I wonder if the poster's dream car is a 3-dr Cossie from his comment about XR4i, and hence the 70k, but isn't twigging that a H-reg car will be a 4 door Sapphire Cossie, and likely a 4x4 one as well....???

[s m]

CKY said:

So the 4WD variant was only 0.2 seconds quicker from 0-60mph but somehow 0.9 seconds quicker by the 0-100mph point? Anyone else guessing the 4WD model wasn't running standard power?

Maybe some devious adjustment as it still did a normal top speed - roughly what you’d expect from standard power. The Autocar test one did similar top speech but slower off mark thanks to a badly slipping clutch.

I think Woofly was fairly brutal with his launch technique though ….. see also his Lotus Carlton ‘test’

Most people wouldn’t get near those figures having witnessed them doing them

[sortedcossie]

CKY said:

So the 4WD variant was only 0.2 seconds quicker from 0-60mph but somehow 0.9 seconds quicker by the 0-100mph point? Anyone else guessing the 4WD model wasn't running standard power?

Where are those figures from, reviews back in the day? The data I have here (Sporting sierras book by Graham Robson) lists:

0-60 - 2wd = 5.8

0-60 - 4wd = 6.6


0-100 - 2wd = 15.8

0-100 - 4wd = 17.1

Interestingly the 1/4 mile were close:

2wd = 14.4

4wd = 14.3


The 4x4 was always slower though, it has more transmission losses and I believe the gear ratios were different so despite the 20 or so BHP more it was slower in a straight line.

[s m]

sortedcossie said:

CKY said:

So the 4WD variant was only 0.2 seconds quicker from 0-60mph but somehow 0.9 seconds quicker by the 0-100mph point? Anyone else guessing the 4WD model wasn't running standard power?

Where are those figures from, reviews back in the day? The data I have here (Sporting sierras book by Graham Robson) lists:

0-60 - 2wd = 5.8

0-60 - 4wd = 6.6


0-100 - 2wd = 15.8

0-100 - 4wd = 17.1

Interestingly the 1/4 mile were close:

2wd = 14.4

4wd = 14.3


The 4x4 was always slower though, it has more transmission losses and I believe the gear ratios were different so despite the 20 or so BHP more it was slower in a straight line.

The Autocar 4wd car had a slipping clutch when tested - top speed was roughly the same as the Performance Car test but figures through the gears just slower
Similar to the E39 M5 when they first did it ( although they revisited the M5 and knocked a couple of seconds off the 0-100 time )


A lot of press cars get a hard life

Next stage of tune for a Cosworth is usually about 260/270 bhp - that was what Cosworth originally came up with for the car and were then told to ‘de-tune’ the road version to 180bhp as ( hard to imagine these days but the Lotus Carlton is another example of mainstream manufacturers being in the spotlight for fast saloons ) Ford’s product liability people were worried about unleashing a saloon car with that sort of performance on Joe Public!!! They also offered the ‘Drive to Survive’ program for new buyers as lots of new owners came unstuck. Imagine that on a 220bhp car these days!
Cosworth couldn’t manage to get the cars to run right at 180bhp etc so 204 - ish was the compromise.

A car with close to intended Cosworth power was timed at around 12.5 seconds to a ton and an extra 7/8 mph on top speed
on the Millbrook Bowl

[aeropilot]

s m said:

Next stage of tune for a Cosworth is usually about 260/270 bhp - that was what Cosworth originally came up with for the car and were then told to ‘de-tune’ the road version to 180bhp as ( hard to imagine these days but the Lotus Carlton is another example of mainstream manufacturers being in the spotlight for fast saloons ) Ford’s product liability people were worried about unleashing a saloon car with that sort of performance on Joe Public!!!

Chrysler/Talbot had the same issue a decade earlier with the Sunbeam-Lotus in 1979. The engine dyno tests that were going to be submitted to SAE etc., was for engine rated at 166hp, but the legal and marketing people were very nervous about trying to sell a car that they were worried the insurance companies would make un-insurable, so the 'official' hp was set at 150hp instead, as this was consider the upper limit of acceptable to the insurance ratings the car would be put in.

[sortedcossie]

The 4x4 I had ended up with a 330 conversion. Ahmed Bayjoo software on it, with the usual flowed head, injector, fuel pump, turbo, intercooler and ignition upgrades of the time. It was on the limitations of the gearbox though, anymore really needed the gearbox upgrading with straight cut 2nd and 3rd and the front diff upgrading.

It was mighty in 3rd gear though, used to leave my mates 2000 3.2 Boxter S for dead. Had some good times with that car.

[FilH]

sortedcossie said:

The 4x4 I had ended up with a 330 conversion. Ahmed Bayjoo software on it, with the usual flowed head, injector, fuel pump, turbo, intercooler and ignition upgrades of the time. It was on the limitations of the gearbox though, anymore really needed the gearbox upgrading with straight cut 2nd and 3rd and the front diff upgrading.

It was mighty in 3rd gear though, used to leave my mates 2000 3.2 Boxter S for dead. Had some good times with that car.

Ive got a collection of spare gearboxes, some good, some broken! Will get a seni straight cut one, one day...

4x4 and a touch over 400bhp

[s m]

As people have said already, it would need to be exceptional to be around 70k value OP - these are the sort of 4wd cars that fetch around that figure as a guide

[s m]

sortedcossie said:

Where are those figures from, reviews back in the day?

Yes, contemporary reviews

4wd one from Performance car - as per test - 2 up with tank of fuel

[sideways man]

I built myself a mk1 escort with a yb turbo, tuned to 330 gp. Now that car had some poke, once the wheels stopped spinning.

[fttm]

gingerbeard said:

Hi all,

I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.

Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.

It has an upgraded turbo and racing type hoses etc but I do not know much about the turbo. Was previous used as a race car but interior is all standard, recaros etc and bodywork is mint with full under seal protection and no rust anywhere.

These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it but the owner is just rich (has an original capri 2.8 with 30k on the clock, a full equipped race ready 993 911, a z-cars mini (£16.5k) and another mini with 2 hyabusa engines in it (not for sale) and a whole bunch of other cars!

I have posted in the finance section for advice but can anyone tell me the best/cheapest way to finance it please?

This is my dream car that I had a poster of on my wall as a child and the closet I have come is an A-reg XR4i. I simply cannot miss this opportunity!

Thanks a lot,

Chris

Utter madness to consider financing a barn find , especially one with a dubious past . Do yourself a huge favour and politely decline the offer , you cannot afford it and it’ll be a huge burden.

[s m]

fttm said:

gingerbeard said:

Hi all,

I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.

Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.

It has an upgraded turbo and racing type hoses etc but I do not know much about the turbo. Was previous used as a race car but interior is all standard, recaros etc and bodywork is mint with full under seal protection and no rust anywhere.

These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it but the owner is just rich (has an original capri 2.8 with 30k on the clock, a full equipped race ready 993 911, a z-cars mini (£16.5k) and another mini with 2 hyabusa engines in it (not for sale) and a whole bunch of other cars!

I have posted in the finance section for advice but can anyone tell me the best/cheapest way to finance it please?

This is my dream car that I had a poster of on my wall as a child and the closet I have come is an A-reg XR4i. I simply cannot miss this opportunity!

Thanks a lot,

Chris

Utter madness to consider financing a barn find , especially one with a dubious past . Do yourself a huge favour and politely decline the offer , you cannot afford it and it’ll be a huge burden.

Gingerbeard

Don’t know if you watched this but sort of illustrates what’s about for less money, albeit will need some work but you could still come in at a lot less if you want something to drive

[FilH]

s m said:

Gingerbeard

Don’t know if you watched this but sort of illustrates what’s about for less money, albeit will need some work but you could still come in at a lot less if you want something to drive

He really don't like the oil breather tank set up does he! When he reversed in the garage at the end and I see the cardboard, i knew what that was all about, got a bit down in my garage.


What car was it he bought tho? Don't think he mentioned it

[s m]

FilH said:

s m said:

Gingerbeard

Don’t know if you watched this but sort of illustrates what’s about for less money, albeit will need some work but you could still come in at a lot less if you want something to drive

He really don't like the oil breather tank set up does he! When he reversed in the garage at the end and I see the cardboard, i knew what that was all about, got a bit down in my garage.


What car was it he bought tho? Don't think he mentioned it

I guess it depends how bad the rust is in the rear of the car but at 15k he’s got some room for manoeuvre

[Pit Pony]

Muzzer79 said:

It still boggles the mind that a Ford is a six-figure car but the market is what the market is I guess.

Still regret not buying that mint Sapphire for 5 grand when I had the chance. But hindsight is a beautiful thing.

Instead of buying a 3 door in 2005, for about £18k, I had a bathroom for £6k and bought (another) mk2 cavalier. A calibre. Irmcher body kitted saloon, assembled by tickford. Rarer and cheaper but far slower than the coswoth. I still regret selling that. Its value would have increased 10 × by now. Unfortunately I sold it for £1300. With a broken engine.