Talk to me about the Eclat......
Discussion
I know nothing of Eclats, but I like the design. Page 111 of "Lotus, The Creative Edge" by Russell Hayes has a series of buying hints for Eclats and Elites, suggesting that the economics of restoration are not good (although that comment could be made of many if not most classic cars). It suggests that the cars are difficult to work on. This is a pity, as they look like interesting cars. A very neat one in JPS colours with tiny mileage was for sale at auction last year but I don't know what became of it.
From friends who have played with these, the consensus appears to be to plan at some stage to take it apart and rebuild it around a new chassis!
There's a company called Spyder who can oblige. They used to produce a chassis with all of the old Triumph-based parts replaced with newer, more robust, more easily-obtained Sierra Cosworth components. The chassis itself will be relatively well rustproofed in this case, too.
If you can find one, I'd go with an Eclat 2.2, but there aren't many (200 built?). They have nice things like electric headlamp lifters (the earlier models had vacuum-operated lifters, which fail often) and a few other nice bits, including a good Getrag gearbox.
Some Eclats had air conditioning (heavy, unreliable) and power steering (heavy, unreliable). You can delete both if like. Wiring is suspect, trim can be a disaster, and the bodies are all obviously very old.
I'm sure it is possible to find one cheaply which can be used as-is, but I think you'd be quite brave...
There's a company called Spyder who can oblige. They used to produce a chassis with all of the old Triumph-based parts replaced with newer, more robust, more easily-obtained Sierra Cosworth components. The chassis itself will be relatively well rustproofed in this case, too.
If you can find one, I'd go with an Eclat 2.2, but there aren't many (200 built?). They have nice things like electric headlamp lifters (the earlier models had vacuum-operated lifters, which fail often) and a few other nice bits, including a good Getrag gearbox.
Some Eclats had air conditioning (heavy, unreliable) and power steering (heavy, unreliable). You can delete both if like. Wiring is suspect, trim can be a disaster, and the bodies are all obviously very old.
I'm sure it is possible to find one cheaply which can be used as-is, but I think you'd be quite brave...
I had an Excel for a while. I was impressed by its pace and handling.
These cars are somewhat cheap for a number of reasons, the biggest being they're underestimated in my opinion. Typical Lotus snobbery of the time me thinks.
The same snobbery befell the Maserati Biturbo's. Everyone will tell you how bad they were, but none of them will have ever sat in one let alone owned or even driven one.
These cars are somewhat cheap for a number of reasons, the biggest being they're underestimated in my opinion. Typical Lotus snobbery of the time me thinks.
The same snobbery befell the Maserati Biturbo's. Everyone will tell you how bad they were, but none of them will have ever sat in one let alone owned or even driven one.
Slade Alive said:
I had an Excel for a while. I was impressed by its pace and handling.
These cars are somewhat cheap for a number of reasons, the biggest being they're underestimated in my opinion. Typical Lotus snobbery of the time me thinks.
The same snobbery befell the Maserati Biturbo's. Everyone will tell you how bad they were, but none of them will have ever sat in one let alone owned or even driven one.
Perhaps... but both cars also picked-up a well-deserved (IMHO) reputation for unreliability. I've seen enough Biturbos with a "tide mark" of rust encompassing cills, floorplan, wings, doors, etc. not to mention the engines...These cars are somewhat cheap for a number of reasons, the biggest being they're underestimated in my opinion. Typical Lotus snobbery of the time me thinks.
The same snobbery befell the Maserati Biturbo's. Everyone will tell you how bad they were, but none of them will have ever sat in one let alone owned or even driven one.
If I'm honest, I think the mistake both Lotus and Maserati made was in attempting to sell cars which were more mainstream and more - apparently - usable day-to-day. As a result, the cars were bought by those with expectations which were hard to meet by small specialist manufacturers. Both cars had relatively highly-tuned engines, needed plenty of maintenance, and deserved cosseting. They were pitched at buyers who were uninterested in any of those things.
Later Bitrubos, like later Excels, are pretty good wagons (a friend of mine has a late Biturbo spider which lives out in the open the whole time and hasn't rusted one little bit), but by then the reputational damage had been done, damage which takes a long, long time to undo.
Well whatever went before doesn't really apply now if talking restored or restoring. I do know one thing though. I wouldn't dismiss the fun of ownership of either an Eclat, Elise, Excell, or a Biturbo because of a bad reputation. When they're good they're great and even bad ones have their moments.
Slade Alive said:
Well whatever went before doesn't really apply now if talking restored or restoring. I do know one thing though. I wouldn't dismiss the fun of ownership of either an Eclat, Elise, Excell, or a Biturbo because of a bad reputation. When they're good they're great and even bad ones have their moments.
Oh, I totally agree. But the reputation does serve to depress values even now, which is only good news for anyone considering taking one on!Slade Alive said:
You say that but have you tried to find a sub thousand pound Biturbo these days? I can't seem to find one other than ones needing lots of work.
Err, yes, that's the point. The last time I looked for such a thing (7 years ago or so) the same was also true. That doesn't mean they're not cheap!Err, seven years ago you could buy a good Eclat, Excell, or a Biturbo, for a grand give or take. Not now you can't. Back then that was cheap. Now it buys you a car that needs work. Expensive work usually. So they are not cheap today as they are not the same car they were seven years ago. That's my point.
Edited by Slade Alive on Sunday 6th March 20:22
Slade Alive said:
Err, seven years ago you could buy a good Eclat, Excell, or a Biturbo, for a grand give or take. Not now you can't. Back then that was cheap. Now it buys you a car that needs work. Expensive work usually. So they are not cheap today as they are not the same car they were seven years ago. That's my point.
When I was looking I don't ever recall seeing a "good Biturbo for a grand". You could a Biturbo with an actual MOT, yes, but all the ones I looked at were very badly corroded, poorly maintained, and so on. The price may, of course, have now gone up because those ones I looked at mostly didn't survive much longer, reducing the overall supply.Edited by Slade Alive on Sunday 6th March 20:22
As for the Loti, again, I saw only basket cases at that price.
I'm glad that you did see good ones - did you buy any?
skwdenyer said:
When I was looking I don't ever recall seeing a "good Biturbo for a grand". You could a Biturbo with an actual MOT, yes, but all the ones I looked at were very badly corroded, poorly maintained, and so on. The price may, of course, have now gone up because those ones I looked at mostly didn't survive much longer, reducing the overall supply.
As for the Loti, again, I saw only basket cases at that price.
I'm glad that you did see good ones - did you buy any?
Yes I did. My friend got the Maserati bug too. We went through a few Biturbo's between us. Myself an Excel and a x-flow Westfield also. Great days. As for the Loti, again, I saw only basket cases at that price.
I'm glad that you did see good ones - did you buy any?
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