europa s2 honda vtec engine swop

europa s2 honda vtec engine swop

Author
Discussion

billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Friday 9th April 2004
quotequote all
has anyone out there chopped a vtec engine in to a lotus europa ,im considering carrying out this upgrade mad as a balloon aint i

kevin-84turbo

30 posts

248 months

Saturday 10th April 2004
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Hi there, Before I got my Esprit I had a Europa and two B18C engines, one of which I was going to install.

Length is fine and water outlets are at the back like the Renault engine. Bellhousing is a problem as not much room for an adapter without moving engine forward to much. Also starter is part of the bellhousing!

However the engine rotates the wrong way round so the crown wheel/carrier needs to be reversed.

Also the alternator is low on the left and interferes with the chassis. otherwise its a feasable swap.

Of course there is a fair bit of electirc stuff to sort.

I sold the car instead(to much work required) and bought an S3 turbo for a good price. Not quite as fast but a good road cruiser.

Cheers
Kevin

billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Sunday 11th April 2004
quotequote all
when you say engine rotates wrong way and change of crown wheel is required ,do you mean that the gearbox needs to be modded ,ive just bought a s2 with spyder chassis there seams to be loads of room to take the vtec but i guess a vauxhall XE would be more realistic -electrics aint too much of a problem as im a electrician (HND qualified ) most things dont beat me lol i did note that the alternator would be tricky i was hoping to drive it off the back like banks does

billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Sunday 11th April 2004
quotequote all
when you say engine rotates wrong way and change of crown wheel is required ,do you mean that the gearbox needs to be modded ,ive just bought a s2 with spyder chassis there seams to be loads of room to take the vtec but i guess a vauxhall XE would be more realistic -electrics aint too much of a problem as im a electrician (HND qualified ) most things dont beat me lol i did note that the alternator would be tricky i was hoping to drive it off the back like banks does

Martin_S

9,939 posts

252 months

Monday 12th April 2004
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You might be interested in this car: www.mambamotorsport.co.uk

I've seen it at the shows, and it looks like a very well engineered and neat bit of kit. Dunno how close the track/wheelbase/driver positions are between the Europa and the 23, but you might even find that it's possible to drop the Europa shell onto the Mamba rolling chassis, with a few mods.

billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Monday 12th April 2004
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thanxs for youre input guys and kev tell me more about the crown wheel mod ect if youve got time cheers carl ive source an accord type r 2.2 lump and before i buy it i want to make sure it will be possible 150+ MPH backwards aint funny is it lol

scuffham

20,887 posts

281 months

Tuesday 13th April 2004
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not all Vtec's run counter-clockwise, the latter ones (F20/K20/etc) all run clockwise.

if you are starting from scratch, the F20/K20 would be a better starting point.

billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
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scruffham what sort of year and model are these engines fitted to i know the 2.0 ltr s2000 motor turns clockwise but £2250 min for a scrapper c/w loom ect.because the crown wheel isnt straight cut it isnt possible to just turn it -even hewland £5000 boxes cant be reversed -pisser really because i like the idea of 9000 rpm 2" behind me thanxs for the help mate

scuffham

20,887 posts

281 months

Thursday 15th April 2004
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all the 'K' serise (K20/K24 etc) as in HRV/Accord/etc

as for the S2000 (F20C) they can be had cheaper than that, and you don't want to loom (it's no use to you).

if you don't want the gearbox either, they can be found for well under £2K if you shop around.

billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Sunday 18th April 2004
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so if i find a f or k series lump would you recommend running on aftermarket ecu and loom then ,ive been offered a integra lump pushing 220 bhp but he wants -and get this dont laugh £5800 ---i dont really want to go down the XE vauxhall route because most of these engines are miley now and to get 200 brake require jenveys cams omega pistons and a good management system so by the time ive done this i may as well have bought the f20c unit .ive got a mate who can help with the adaptor plate for the bell housing so this only leaves the alternator problem ..thanxs for youre help scruffham

scuffham

20,887 posts

281 months

Monday 19th April 2004
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what alternator problem?

if you get a K20A, the JDM (Jap) version is 220Bhp.

these go for ~£4-5K S/H complete with engine loom and gearbox etc.

you can get the std CU flashed to loose the imobiliser/speed limiter/multiplexor etc, then make up the ECU to car harness, etc.

With the F20, it's a bit easier as just about any after-market ECU can cope with simple Vtec (DTA/Emerals/MBE/Etc) just make up a new engine loom or cut&shut the exsisting one


billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Monday 19th April 2004
quotequote all
the problem with the alternator is that the europa drives all ancileries off of the back end of the engine ,banks get over this with the xe engines by ditching the dizzie (running off of crank trigger and cam sensor)then putting a pulley on to the end of the now bare camshaft....i dont know if the f20 lumps will drop with time ,i may concentrate on body work running gear ect before i invest in an engine ,so does the aftermarket management ecu send a signal to engage the vtec at certain RPM so this is why you said that the factory loom is no use ? see im learning S_L_O_W_L_Y

kevin-84turbo

30 posts

248 months

Tuesday 20th April 2004
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Hello All

The 2000 and 2.2 are BIGGER engines and may not fit at all!

In terms of the transmission mods all that is required is to split the case and turn the carrier/ring around.

Thats what Lotus did when the adapted the box from the R16 so effectively your just putting it back to standard. Youll have to reset the clearences using the screw in side inserts.

Apparently this can also be done on some Fuego 5 speeds but not all of them, according to "banks service station" in the UK.

The B18C motor is light and revy and is plenty for a Europa, the other engine I looked at was the Mitsi Mivec turbo 1600, but altho it had more go its heavier with a cast iron block, the water outlets are at the back like the Honda so thats a good start.

Hope this helps
Kevin

billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Tuesday 20th April 2004
quotequote all
makes me laugh kevin i rang richard at banks service station and he told me that it is not possible to rotate the crown gear (hard work he can be) ,indead renault transmission uses spherical cut gear so if you reversed it then it would drive on the wrong face of the crown wheel gear lasting about 600 miles max. im using a spider chassis so theres enough width and the s2000 engine is short enough ,however you have a point the height may be a tad excessive .the car ive bought has got to be cut about body work wise so i guess a big hump in the engine cover wont hurt to much its the 16"245 wheels the last owner fitted that worry me lol....62s wheel arches @£450 from BSS may help

kevin-84turbo

30 posts

248 months

Wednesday 21st April 2004
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Thats funny he was the one that told me you could swap the 5 speeds around. Yes hes a bit distant sometimes but I think that probably comes from having so many people asking questions! I visited his company in Southport in 2000 and its very impressive!

However the R16 had the gbox in front of the engine so it DID rotate the other way, check out some pics on the web or an R16 manual. so it may be that you need to use the R16 box, which is a bolt in in a S2.

Cheers
Kevin

gary_tholl

1,013 posts

277 months

Wednesday 21st April 2004
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You'll quickly destroy the crown and pinion if you simply swap it. That is not what Lotus did originally, they had sets made with the load face on the other side. That's why a crown and pinion is near impossible to find for a Europa.

You'll want to be carefull with your tranny as well. The 336/352 aren't really strong enough to handle 200 hp. You may want to go to something different. I used a Renault NG-3 tranny, it is good to ~250hp.

A Honda engine (while not my cup of tea), would turn a Europa into quite a quick little car. You would want to be quite carefull of fitting though. There really isn't much room, you may end up with a bulge in the firewall as well to clear the front of the engine.

I went with a Cosworth BDD, a direct bolt in 220hp to my Twin Cam car. If you have an S2, it is quite a bit more work, but can be done.

Good luck,
Gary

billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Thursday 22nd April 2004
quotequote all
the car i have is "fitted " with a ng3 box (however the gear selector is on the right hand side as you look at it from the rear of the car not like others ive seen and the clutch arm is on the right aswell strange ) ive been told that 220brake is about all the ng3 will take ,you say it manages 250 then?
the reverse cut crown wheel is a £1000 one off ive been informed .
the s2 i have has a spyder frame old style though so im going to have to fab a gearbox frame at some point but that withstanding theres plenty of room between the box and bulkhead the renault crossflow isnt that small a lump...cheers for youre input

scuffham

20,887 posts

281 months

Friday 23rd April 2004
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at a guess I would say the F20C (S2000) is not as long a block as the Coswroth lump...

only real issue with the F20C is it's quite tall, however, loosing the sum (ie. dry sump it) solves this problem. (same goes for the K20A, also, there is a K24 version 2.4L)

billylumpon

Original Poster:

37 posts

248 months

Friday 23rd April 2004
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scruffham its got to be done theres a dodgy f20c lump on ebay at moment but its only the lump so ill have to jenvey and emerald it,as for the height its a shame the old 2.2 vtec does turn the right way because it has a lovely sump cut away where the exhuast used to go and is just where the spyder chassis hoop is ..i think its all do-able but not easy ive got plenty of time though _NOT _wifes going mad

gary_tholl

1,013 posts

277 months

Friday 23rd April 2004
quotequote all
Sounds like a cool project, make sure you take lots of pics.

As for the tranny, I'm not sure, but I was told the the NG-3 can hold up to 250... I guess we'll see!

For the shifting, I used marine control cables. Built a small bracket at the shifter to attach the cables to, and two brackets at the tranny, one for gear selection, and one for gate selection. It works fantastically, but I did have to cut the internal spring for moving between gates to make it manageable.

Have fun!
Gary