When is a Lotus not a Lotus?

[TheLemming]

Been thinking recently (prompted by a gorgeous black Lotus Carlton in the carpark) as how we categorise the various vehicles Lotus has (or had) an involvement in.

Now obviously the Elise, Esprit, Elan, Excel etc arent up for dicussion however there are a variety of others that sit on the border.

Most people consider the Lotus Carlton to be a Lotus, its badged as a Lotus, goes like stink, etc however nobody sane would consider the various Proton GTIs as a product of Hethel, despite their wearing big Lotus logos on the side.

The border starts to waver with the VX and VXT though.

These arent badged as Lotuses, however built at Hethel on a modified Elise chassis, designed by Lotus and sold at Vauxhall dealers.

So I ask the question, why do we count Lotus Carlton a Lotus, while a VX is derided by many as a Vauxhall?

[Bonce]

Perhaps because of the naming? For example:

Lotus Carlton
Vauxhall VX220

Even though the VX doesn't have a Lotus badge on it or "Lotus" in the name, I'll still wave when I see one. I'd never wave at a Proton though!

[M100]

General rule as indicated by Lotus PR a few years ago was:

built at a Lotus factory = Lotus

built elsewhere = not a Lotus (assuming Shah Alam is a Lotus factory to avoid any possibility of far east Elise S1's being Protons)

Hence Mk1 Lotus Cortina / Mk2 Cortina Lotus

Given the vast engineering input by Hethel and the distict lack of it by GM then the VX's are at the end of the day as pure a Lotus as you will find with someone elses badge on the front.

For a very crude check look at the VIN, If it starts SCC then its a Lotus.

[gshughes]

Something I read the other day is whether it has a Lotus project number. For example apparently the Sunbeam Lotus has one (Type 81 or something ?) which gives it more credibility in the Lotus world.

>> Edited by gshughes on Tuesday 16th March 15:05

[mg_dot]

Yep, the VX has a Lotus Type No (Type 116), and is built at Hethel; and Lotus had far more to do with the engineering than Vauxhall. So in my book its a Lotus

www.hazelnet.org/lotus/index.htm

>> Edited by mg_dot on Tuesday 16th March 14:58

[MPx]

Interestingly enough (he says pulling on anorak) the insurance companies dont seem to agree with the above wisdom. Try to insure an Esprit or Elan and they look under Lotus....but they cant find a Lotus Carlton, they have to look under Vauxhall...and they cant find a Lotus Sunbeam, they have to look under Talbot. Still seem to be Lotus sized premiums that they quote though!!

[GKP]

That's because (pulling on own anorak) the Carlton and Sunbeam were marketed/sold and warrantied as Vauxhall and Talbot. The Carlton is a Vauxhall/Opel product. All the guys Hethel did was to build it for them. ("All"!)
Your V5 will say Vauxhall Lotus Carlton. Vauxhall being the make and Lotus Carlton being the model.

[cathalm]

Its been put to me that the VX is more Lotus than the elise as the VX has a lotus designed engine and the elise has k-series or toyota. Not sure but made me think anyway

[mike s]

TheLemming said:

gorgeous black Lotus Carlton in the carpark

All Lotus Carltons were Imperial Green (Very dark green, almost black in appearance)

[Hazzer]

GKP said:

That's because (pulling on own anorak) the Carlton and Sunbeam were marketed/sold and warrantied as Vauxhall and Talbot. The Carlton is a Vauxhall/Opel product. All the guys Hethel did was to build it for them. ("All"!) Your V5 will say Vauxhall Lotus Carlton. Vauxhall being the make and Lotus Carlton being the model.

Spot on GKP - I couldn`t have put it better myself, All these products were created because the OEM employed Lotus to do a "job" for them, instead of carrying out the work in-house. Naturally therefore they want the kudos of selling the vehicles through their own dealer networks.

Haz

>> Edited by Hazzer on Tuesday 27th April 13:30