Lotus elise S1
Discussion
Hi every one with Lotus, I am looking at buying a different car when I collect another N.C.B in August. I have a Z3 2.8 at the moment which dissapoints in the corners with a bouncy drive over moor roads,im want something for the weekend a bit more performance and to be reliable ect. ect. plus Ill be keeping this car for a few years. My options are S1 elise or maybe a Z3m roadster. How good is the K series engine and do head gaskets go as with other rovers.
You'd be better of posting this in the Elise forum (this is the general Lotus forum, which isn't nearly so well frequented).
Yes, the head gaskets are prone to failure (I've owned 2 Elises and 3 K-series engined cars and have yet to suffer from the problem, but I've known several Elise owners personally who haven't been so lucky).
Other than that, it's a great little engine, though the highly tuned (>190bhp) VHPD versions have a reputation for fragility.
The Toyota engine in later Elises may be more reliable, but it's also a lot heavier and the current price differential would pay for several lifetime's worth of head gasket replacements (circa £650 each, if you want to budget for the inevitable).
Alternatively, look at it this way: the better fuel consumption alone would more than pay for any head gasket failure if you're comparing it with a BMW Z3M.
Yes, the head gaskets are prone to failure (I've owned 2 Elises and 3 K-series engined cars and have yet to suffer from the problem, but I've known several Elise owners personally who haven't been so lucky).
Other than that, it's a great little engine, though the highly tuned (>190bhp) VHPD versions have a reputation for fragility.
The Toyota engine in later Elises may be more reliable, but it's also a lot heavier and the current price differential would pay for several lifetime's worth of head gasket replacements (circa £650 each, if you want to budget for the inevitable).
Alternatively, look at it this way: the better fuel consumption alone would more than pay for any head gasket failure if you're comparing it with a BMW Z3M.
Hi Sam, my dad has a k series engine in his rover 25 on a 54 plate and has had 2 headgaskets, with the later fixed with a landrover head gasket. Could the Lotus be fitted with one of these. Thats my only real concern with the S1 and with mods added will it be reliable and what will this extra power do to the performance figures. As 0-60 stock seems to be 5.8 with cams,induction manifolds ect. would i be looking at 5.0
I've had my K series for over 4 years and no worries.
I think you need to bear in mind that the K series in normal cars are driven by 'normal' drivers (no disrespect intended to your dad) by this i mean they are rarely warmed up from cold or cooled off from hot properly which is the main cause of HGF. Also you need to consider that the 25 & Freelander are a lot heavier than an Elise.
To be honest if you are sensible then there really isn't an issue. That said a guys do the same as me which is take the AA warranty at £60/year which covers you up to £500 for parts etc which is enough to cover a HGF done by a specialist Lotus garage.
Hope this helps.
I think you need to bear in mind that the K series in normal cars are driven by 'normal' drivers (no disrespect intended to your dad) by this i mean they are rarely warmed up from cold or cooled off from hot properly which is the main cause of HGF. Also you need to consider that the 25 & Freelander are a lot heavier than an Elise.
To be honest if you are sensible then there really isn't an issue. That said a guys do the same as me which is take the AA warranty at £60/year which covers you up to £500 for parts etc which is enough to cover a HGF done by a specialist Lotus garage.
Hope this helps.
I've said this umpteen times now: don't buy an ageing sports car like the Elise if a £6-700 bill is going to worry you. I've just spent a bit more than that in parts alone doing a suspension refresh on my 73k miles S1. If I'd paid for labour I'd have been looking at well over £2k.
There are apparantly several causes for HGF. Firstly the cylinder liners drop: if this is checked and rectified when the gasket is replaced it shouldn't happen again: an engine thats been sympathetically warmed up without revving and labouring until the oil (not the water) is up to temp will be less likely to suffer from this. Another problem (though less likely on S1s) is that the K heads suffered from casting problems in later years which can also lead to failure. My car has done 73k miles and hasn't suffered yet.
What you'll get in return for your money is a car that will now be depreciating very slowly (they've stood up in recent times particularly well), is a wonderfully tactile driving experience and will put a smile back on your face every time you drive it.
Have a dig around on SELOC and you'll find loads of technical information on the Elise (and loads of DIY guides in the techwiki).
There are apparantly several causes for HGF. Firstly the cylinder liners drop: if this is checked and rectified when the gasket is replaced it shouldn't happen again: an engine thats been sympathetically warmed up without revving and labouring until the oil (not the water) is up to temp will be less likely to suffer from this. Another problem (though less likely on S1s) is that the K heads suffered from casting problems in later years which can also lead to failure. My car has done 73k miles and hasn't suffered yet.
What you'll get in return for your money is a car that will now be depreciating very slowly (they've stood up in recent times particularly well), is a wonderfully tactile driving experience and will put a smile back on your face every time you drive it.
Have a dig around on SELOC and you'll find loads of technical information on the Elise (and loads of DIY guides in the techwiki).
Portmyster said:
...with mods added will it be reliable and what will this extra power do to the performance figures. As 0-60 stock seems to be 5.8 with cams,induction manifolds ect. would i be looking at 5.0
Yes, there are upgraded head gaskets/dowels available that will improve the head gasket reliability, but I wouldn't bother changing unless it failed or you had the head off for other work.Obviously, increasing engine power reduces lifespan, but unless you go above 175bhp (by which time you'll need to be looking at stronger bottom-end components and throttle bodies, so it'll be getting expensive) the K-series is still reasonably reliable.
Both the standard 111S (143bhp) and the Sport 160 (158bhp) will give 0-60 in the low 5 second bracket, but the Sport 160 needs ragging to extract the power and can be a bit of a pain in traffic (it's an Old Skool tuned engine and is pretty gutless in the lower rev range). It also attracts a significant price premium due to rarity. You can upgrade any S1 to S160 levels of power, of course, but you won't recoup the costs when you come to sell.
Personally (having owned a 160), I'd recommend the 111S for road use; it's very nearly as quick, much better behaved, cheaper and more comfortable. It also benefits from a close-ratio gearbox as standard (which was optional on the Sport 160 cars, although mine had one), which makes a hell of a difference.
Hi every one thanks for you advice, my worry on the HGF on the S1 K series is not an real issue which is good to know. Suspension seems to be a more pressing issue then as I have noticed allot of S2 upgrade suspension on cars. Yep the 111s does seem to me the right compromise for the road. Never driven an Elise yet but I would think that it would bring the smile back to my face as coming from a Mr2 mrk2 that handled very well where as the Z doesn’t give any confidence apart from the LSD&traction con. But a good driver shouldnt need these
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