RE: Lotus Factory Test Track
Thursday 21st February 2002
Lotus Factory Test Track
Drive Hethel with Wheeltorque
Discussion
Why are Esprits, Elans etc. excluded from this test day?? Outrageous.
I am fed up the contrived Elise (and spin-offs) exclusivity.
Esprit, Elan, Eclat etc. owners are truely loyal to the lotus badge but where's their day?
In my opinion, Elise owners care only about the Elise mark, not the badge. They dream of buying a Noble, TVR or Ferrari tomorrow. Not an Esprit or M250. Why do Lotus pander to these 'passing through' journey men whose enthusiasm and whim is loyal only to the most expensive and exclusive model/badge within range of their wallet.
I am fed up the contrived Elise (and spin-offs) exclusivity.
Esprit, Elan, Eclat etc. owners are truely loyal to the lotus badge but where's their day?
In my opinion, Elise owners care only about the Elise mark, not the badge. They dream of buying a Noble, TVR or Ferrari tomorrow. Not an Esprit or M250. Why do Lotus pander to these 'passing through' journey men whose enthusiasm and whim is loyal only to the most expensive and exclusive model/badge within range of their wallet.
I think they group the cars together as they are all of the same 'type'. That said, it is a bit ludicrous as a 340R is a bit quicker than a standard 115bhp Elise.
Maybe Wheeltorque should do an 'open' Lotus track day.
And if you think Elan owners etc get treated like crap by the Lotus-snobs, imagine what it's like when your Lotus is based on a Vauxhall (yes, my LC was screwed together from the ground up in Hethel).
That said, I could nail any Elise, Exige or 340R on the motorway, with a gear or two to spare ;-)
Maybe Wheeltorque should do an 'open' Lotus track day.
And if you think Elan owners etc get treated like crap by the Lotus-snobs, imagine what it's like when your Lotus is based on a Vauxhall (yes, my LC was screwed together from the ground up in Hethel).
That said, I could nail any Elise, Exige or 340R on the motorway, with a gear or two to spare ;-)
quote:
Why are Esprits, Elans etc. excluded from this test day?? Outrageous.
I am fed up the contrived Elise (and spin-offs) exclusivity.
Esprit, Elan, Eclat etc. owners are truely loyal to the lotus badge but where's their day?
In my opinion, Elise owners care only about the Elise mark, not the badge. They dream of buying a Noble, TVR or Ferrari tomorrow. Not an Esprit or M250. Why do Lotus pander to these 'passing through' journey men whose enthusiasm and whim is loyal only to the most expensive and exclusive model/badge within range of their wallet.
I agree it's unfair to exclude other Lotus cars but the rest of what you said is utter claptrap.
quote:
I agree it's unfair to exclude other Lotus cars but the rest of what you said is utter claptrap.
Sorry, but it is simply a hard truth that we all need to take on board. In my experience, most Elise drivers do not even recognise cars such as the Elan, Elite, Eclat etc. as Lotuses.
It is always a pleasure to pass one of these cars and exchange a waive or flash of the headlights as you go by. These are the real Lotus enthusiasts. That waive carries an understanding of what it is to be a Lotus owner. The Elise drivers do not seem to do this. They only seem to identify with other Elise owners.
But don't take it from me, simply check out the various Elise (and spin off models such as Exige etc.) websites/events pages that scream "No other models or Lotuses welcome".
Surely I am not the only person to have noticed this?? If not, please make your views and experiences known. This needs to be aired.
>> Edited by m700 tus on Thursday 21st February 12:28
M700 TUS,
Well I'm afraid the majority of Elise owners are not as "snobby" as you make out. I've just had a Lotus owners day at Goodwood and all I can say is that they and myself are a pretty friendly bunch.
I will acknowledge anything, that Lotus have built, on the road and would not care what model it is.
The reason that people buy an Elise over something else is not because they are cheap! It is an icon in it's own right and it is a seminal approach to motoring, rather than the 'more grunt = more fun' route.
I have no problem with older car reunions or one-make trackdays. This is simply because there are so many run there is usually one that caters for you marque.
There has to be logical reason as to why Lotus would only allow a particular kind of car on the track on a particular day. Why not pose the question to Lotus/Wheeltorque themselves rather than make broad sweeping statements about particular car owners?
Well I'm afraid the majority of Elise owners are not as "snobby" as you make out. I've just had a Lotus owners day at Goodwood and all I can say is that they and myself are a pretty friendly bunch.
I will acknowledge anything, that Lotus have built, on the road and would not care what model it is.
The reason that people buy an Elise over something else is not because they are cheap! It is an icon in it's own right and it is a seminal approach to motoring, rather than the 'more grunt = more fun' route.
I have no problem with older car reunions or one-make trackdays. This is simply because there are so many run there is usually one that caters for you marque.
There has to be logical reason as to why Lotus would only allow a particular kind of car on the track on a particular day. Why not pose the question to Lotus/Wheeltorque themselves rather than make broad sweeping statements about particular car owners?
If you want to see snobbery in action, speak to a chap called Andrew Edney... his Caterham 21 (based on a seven chassis) was banned from the Lotus Seven club. Just like it was a Westfield. Ouch!
I think the reason some Elise people don't wave is because they are not massive enthusiasts. They probably saw it as a quicker MR2 or something. It is much more of a mainstream car than an Esprit or even the FWD Elan.
When I had a Porsche 944, Boxster owners would look at you in disbelief if you waved! Some just have a different mind set, but not all.
I waved at an Elise driver in my Caterham, and he got the link well enough to acknowledge me!
I think the reason some Elise people don't wave is because they are not massive enthusiasts. They probably saw it as a quicker MR2 or something. It is much more of a mainstream car than an Esprit or even the FWD Elan.
When I had a Porsche 944, Boxster owners would look at you in disbelief if you waved! Some just have a different mind set, but not all.
I waved at an Elise driver in my Caterham, and he got the link well enough to acknowledge me!
quote:
...rather than make broad sweeping statements about particular car owners?
You have omitted to comment on my observation about the 'Elise only' websites/self-arranged track days. Please do.
I think that domster understands my point - the Elise to most owners is a fancy MR2. This is not good.
...but then the Elise owners on this site probably are enthusiasts.
I dunno what the ratio is. 70:30 MR2er:enthusiast?
With the Esprit it's probably nearer 50:50.
Maybe Lotus could do a survey when they sell a car - it could have silhouettes of old Eclats in it with 50 points if you can name it. Plus questions like:
- who was the bloke who founded Lotus? (10 points)
- is the Elan front or rear wheel drive (20 points, trick question)
and
- how much for a cut and blow dry? (-50 points, will catch out the MX-5/MGF/MR2 lot)
I dunno what the ratio is. 70:30 MR2er:enthusiast?
With the Esprit it's probably nearer 50:50.
Maybe Lotus could do a survey when they sell a car - it could have silhouettes of old Eclats in it with 50 points if you can name it. Plus questions like:
- who was the bloke who founded Lotus? (10 points)
- is the Elan front or rear wheel drive (20 points, trick question)
and
- how much for a cut and blow dry? (-50 points, will catch out the MX-5/MGF/MR2 lot)
If you hadn't noticed the majority of these one model lotus websites are run by people who happen to own the car. I don't have problem with that, the wensite will only attract people who have the car. I'm sure there are some Elan, Elite and Esprit sites that do the same.
I don't have a problem with it, it just means I won't go that site often. Also the people who write about these cars either don't have the time or the experience with other Lotus model to comment/write about them.
As for the MR2 comparison, well that's fair enough. Not every Lotus owner is going to appreciate the history and the heritage of the marque. But then again I'm not sure an exam to test a potential customers validity would go down very well!
You also have to point the finger at the Lotus advertising campaign itself. To be honest before now, there was NO advertising campaign, so of course the car appealed to only those in the know.
Also Lotus have made the recent Elises much more compromised for comfort, hardly the back to basics, stripped racer they started as. The reason they have done this is to attract the MR2 and MGF buyers, so who can we blame?
I don't have a problem with it, it just means I won't go that site often. Also the people who write about these cars either don't have the time or the experience with other Lotus model to comment/write about them.
As for the MR2 comparison, well that's fair enough. Not every Lotus owner is going to appreciate the history and the heritage of the marque. But then again I'm not sure an exam to test a potential customers validity would go down very well!
You also have to point the finger at the Lotus advertising campaign itself. To be honest before now, there was NO advertising campaign, so of course the car appealed to only those in the know.
Also Lotus have made the recent Elises much more compromised for comfort, hardly the back to basics, stripped racer they started as. The reason they have done this is to attract the MR2 and MGF buyers, so who can we blame?
ADEEWUFF, well said and couldn’t agree more.
I'm an Elise owner and a first time Lotus owner and I can see how the mind set of the old and new schools would conflict, but does it really need to be this abrasive. M70TUS get over it, some people like blue others like red, why get all wound up about it ?
All respect to Colin & Co the longer I own the car, the more appreciation I have of it's heritage & pedigree and the other great cars they have produced but that’s not going to stop me returning a friendly waive of another "driver" in another model/make of car. If people want to get snobbish about the type of car they own vrs some one who drives another make/model – do you really want to associate with them anyway, sounds a little like an annoyance at not being accepted…..
At the end of the day if the person in the car is enjoying there driving, does it really matter if it’s an MR2 or Elan ?
I'm an Elise owner and a first time Lotus owner and I can see how the mind set of the old and new schools would conflict, but does it really need to be this abrasive. M70TUS get over it, some people like blue others like red, why get all wound up about it ?
All respect to Colin & Co the longer I own the car, the more appreciation I have of it's heritage & pedigree and the other great cars they have produced but that’s not going to stop me returning a friendly waive of another "driver" in another model/make of car. If people want to get snobbish about the type of car they own vrs some one who drives another make/model – do you really want to associate with them anyway, sounds a little like an annoyance at not being accepted…..
At the end of the day if the person in the car is enjoying there driving, does it really matter if it’s an MR2 or Elan ?
Not sure I've ever heard of any Elise only track days, I like to see some examples.
Also don't know of any of "the various Elise (and spin off models such as Exige etc.) websites/events pages that scream "No other models or Lotuses welcome". " I post on British-cars.co.uk which has a board for 10 different Lotus models and one that doesn't exist (M250). Curiously enough I don't post on the Elan board when I want to ask a question about the K series engine. I'd be interested to see a board that does "scream "No other models or Lotuses welcome". "
As to the Elise only websites, I assume you mean the personal ones. Hardly surprising if that's the car they own and the only Lotus they've had. It's not much use having a website devoted to Lotus when you've got no practical knowledge of any other models, better leave that to people who own each model, surely.
I think you've taken a few instances, the Lotus trackday for one, and made a conspiracy out of it. I think you'll find that almost any Elise owner you approach would be interested in your Lotus, whatever it is. They may not know the whole history of Lotus but I bet they'd listen to some of the more interesting bits, such as how much of modern F1 design was first designed by Chapman.
There are a lot of compromises to make if you own an Elise, and I'm not sure many MR2 owners or would make them unless they were a driving enthusiast. That's the important thing, being able to appreciate the philosophy behind the Lotus design or any other drivers car, not whether you know the history of Lotus in detail. Anyway, aren't the later Esprit's a bit heavy, maybe they don't fit in with the Lotus idea so we shouldn't wave to them?
Also don't know of any of "the various Elise (and spin off models such as Exige etc.) websites/events pages that scream "No other models or Lotuses welcome". " I post on British-cars.co.uk which has a board for 10 different Lotus models and one that doesn't exist (M250). Curiously enough I don't post on the Elan board when I want to ask a question about the K series engine. I'd be interested to see a board that does "scream "No other models or Lotuses welcome". "
As to the Elise only websites, I assume you mean the personal ones. Hardly surprising if that's the car they own and the only Lotus they've had. It's not much use having a website devoted to Lotus when you've got no practical knowledge of any other models, better leave that to people who own each model, surely.
I think you've taken a few instances, the Lotus trackday for one, and made a conspiracy out of it. I think you'll find that almost any Elise owner you approach would be interested in your Lotus, whatever it is. They may not know the whole history of Lotus but I bet they'd listen to some of the more interesting bits, such as how much of modern F1 design was first designed by Chapman.
There are a lot of compromises to make if you own an Elise, and I'm not sure many MR2 owners or would make them unless they were a driving enthusiast. That's the important thing, being able to appreciate the philosophy behind the Lotus design or any other drivers car, not whether you know the history of Lotus in detail. Anyway, aren't the later Esprit's a bit heavy, maybe they don't fit in with the Lotus idea so we shouldn't wave to them?
M700 TUS. Did it not occur to you that Lotus need to sell *every* single car they can in order to survive at the moment? If you ever want to see the M250, or its replcement, you should be very grateful to every "MR2 owner", as you say so disdainfully, who buys an Elise and pumps some cash into the company.
Trust me, as a Lotus employee this *is* the case.
Trust me, as a Lotus employee this *is* the case.
quote:
M700 TUS. Did it not occur to you that Lotus need to sell *every* single car they can in order to survive at the moment...trust me, as a Lotus employee this *is* the case.
I trust you Tim. But tell me why (if what you say is true) does your website only contain details of your recent Westfield kit car purchase? What a team player you must be regarded as at work...nice one *mate*
The purpose of my gas is not to insult Elise owners. I simply want to emphasise the need for all Lotus owners to stick together, and for Lotus to recognise the problems they are creating by developing two different types of enthusiast
>> Edited by m700 tus on Monday 25th February 08:57
quote:
I have got mostly frowns and examples of arrogance.
Sorry to hear that Moby. Come on guys/gals. We need to stick together. Lotus ownership is supposed to be about mutual understanding and enjoyment of the history and brand; not exclusivity or arrogance. Hence my original comment that an Elise exclusive track day is wrong and unhelpful.
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