Europa. Mad, bad or dangerous to know?
Discussion
Hi there, First time on the Lotus forum so be kind. 
I currently have a nice big Jaguar XJR-S and I think it's ace.
However, the one thing it can't do is zoom around country lanes. So consequently I'm thinking of investing in a (hopefully) cheap toy for some fun next summer.
Now I've always been intrigued by the Lotus Europa. The back to basics design and of course the mid-engined layout all appeal to me.
I wonder if any of you guy's might have had experience of the Europa? Is it the chapest way of getting mid engined fun or is it just too old to be any good?
I'd really appreciate your comments.
Bob.
I currently have a nice big Jaguar XJR-S and I think it's ace.
However, the one thing it can't do is zoom around country lanes. So consequently I'm thinking of investing in a (hopefully) cheap toy for some fun next summer.
Now I've always been intrigued by the Lotus Europa. The back to basics design and of course the mid-engined layout all appeal to me.
I wonder if any of you guy's might have had experience of the Europa? Is it the chapest way of getting mid engined fun or is it just too old to be any good?
I'd really appreciate your comments.
Bob.
Sounds like a great plan. I know very little about the car so I can't offer any advice other than:
it looks great in that colour, really different and eye catching.
Some good information on the car here: www.pistonheads.com/lotus/europa
Good luck!
it looks great in that colour, really different and eye catching. Some good information on the car here: www.pistonheads.com/lotus/europa
Good luck!
Owned 3 Europa's in the past - all TC Special models which are in my opinion the best (with either 4 or 5 speed gearbox)- supreme handling in the dry - best Lotus in this respect until the Elise came along.
Downside; they are a bit noisy, rattly and claustrophobic and can be interesting in the wet. Oh yes and there's but 3mm of fibreglass protecting you from side impact!!
Mechanically if you stay on top of them they are pretty reliable. But nearly 30 years since last ones made, most have been re-chassised (orig chassis was not galvanised) so worth checking. Parts availability is still good and there are a number of specialists out there.
Go for a twin cam engine model 0-60 7 secs - the renault engine is a bit on the sluggish side and the S1 and S2 imho do not look as good. A JPS liveried Europa Special still cuts the mustard with any modern sportscar.
Downside; they are a bit noisy, rattly and claustrophobic and can be interesting in the wet. Oh yes and there's but 3mm of fibreglass protecting you from side impact!!
Mechanically if you stay on top of them they are pretty reliable. But nearly 30 years since last ones made, most have been re-chassised (orig chassis was not galvanised) so worth checking. Parts availability is still good and there are a number of specialists out there.
Go for a twin cam engine model 0-60 7 secs - the renault engine is a bit on the sluggish side and the S1 and S2 imho do not look as good. A JPS liveried Europa Special still cuts the mustard with any modern sportscar.
My word Clanger! How many lotuses are there in your profile!?!
That's good information though, cheers.
Since you have one of these too. What's your take on the M100 Elan?
A second option would be to save up a little more and buy one of them.
Although the quirkyness of the Europa is certainly endearing
That's good information though, cheers.
Since you have one of these too. What's your take on the M100 Elan?
A second option would be to save up a little more and buy one of them.
Although the quirkyness of the Europa is certainly endearing
My father had a putrid green Europa S2 in the late '70s. Used to take me to school in it. He eventually sold it for an Esprit S3 and I believe the Europa was exported to South Africa of all places.
Fun little car. Wasn't especially fast by today's standards but had a really rorty induction note that you could hear a mile off.
>> Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 15th October 13:48
Fun little car. Wasn't especially fast by today's standards but had a really rorty induction note that you could hear a mile off.
>> Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 15th October 13:48
>>What's your take on the M100 Elan?
Hello, I've got an M100. Compared to the Europa, the Elan very fun but not quite as extreme. It is more of an everyday driver as opposed to the Europa. Terrific handling in the wet, very reliable engine, drivetrain and chassis. Very fast, and engine is very tunable on the M100.
S1 Europa's had body that was glued to the chassis, and had smooth underbelly. The TC's had more power.
For more info check out:
www.lotuseuropa.org
www.lotuselancentral.com
Hello, I've got an M100. Compared to the Europa, the Elan very fun but not quite as extreme. It is more of an everyday driver as opposed to the Europa. Terrific handling in the wet, very reliable engine, drivetrain and chassis. Very fast, and engine is very tunable on the M100.
S1 Europa's had body that was glued to the chassis, and had smooth underbelly. The TC's had more power.
For more info check out:
www.lotuseuropa.org
www.lotuselancentral.com
Yep I'm a lot of a Lotus freaky - had 13 of the lil' beauts over the years!! - M100SE is a really top underrated motor - had mine 5 years now, still love it as much as when I first bought it. It has excellent performance, comfort and dare I mention the 'practical' word. A well cared for example is an absolute diamond. I've run mine this summer as the main car, no probs but big smiles esp with top down - but you've got me thinking Europas again!! 
esp with top down - but you've got me thinking Europas again!! Well I have a Europa JPS and can't think of a better car for even twice the money. With only minor tweaking to the suspension it can go from excellent handling to absolutely amazing! The S1 and S2 modles are Renualt powered and the Twin cam (obviously) and Specials have the Lotus Twin cam engine. The 5 speed (Renault 365) wasn't introduced until 1973, and production of the Europa ended in early 1975. As far as maintaining one, the later cars seem to have less problems, that and starting with a really clean car will help wonders.
Here's a great group for finding out information as well
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuseuropa
Here's a great group for finding out information as well
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuseuropa
Thanks for the comments on the M100. I nearly bought one this summer but Bought my Jag instead, it was just too good a bargain to miss.
Some of you have voiced my own concerns about the M100 perhaps being too much of an accomplished all rounder.
If it was to be my only car it would be a great solution, but would it supply the intense driving experience I'm looking for? Hence the Europa.
Interesting to hear that it can still cut it against a lot of more modern machinery.
Do you think one could stand comparison with a Lotus 7/Caterfield for pure handling ability?
Oh and without wanting to jinx the potential deal - I have found an one owner Europa TC with 27000 miles on the clock, which my mechanic knows fairly well, which has spent most of It's time in a barn.
I just hope it's within my budget.
Some of you have voiced my own concerns about the M100 perhaps being too much of an accomplished all rounder.
If it was to be my only car it would be a great solution, but would it supply the intense driving experience I'm looking for? Hence the Europa.
Interesting to hear that it can still cut it against a lot of more modern machinery.
Do you think one could stand comparison with a Lotus 7/Caterfield for pure handling ability?
Oh and without wanting to jinx the potential deal - I have found an one owner Europa TC with 27000 miles on the clock, which my mechanic knows fairly well, which has spent most of It's time in a barn.
I just hope it's within my budget.
Bob - the power steering on the M100 is by far its biggest downside - steering feedback is not the best as a result - but it corners on rails..
Comparison of Europa with seven/caterfield depends totally on driver/specs - there are some awesomely quick caterfields out there - been up against them on trackdays and some are quicker than my Exige - mind thats probably because their driver is quicker than me -27k miles/1 owner - if price right go for it!!
Comparison of Europa with seven/caterfield depends totally on driver/specs - there are some awesomely quick caterfields out there - been up against them on trackdays and some are quicker than my Exige - mind thats probably because their driver is quicker than me
-27k miles/1 owner - if price right go for it!!Go For It!!!!
The Europa is a blast, easy(ish) to work on, cheap, different, reliable(ish), and FUN.
I own a '73 TCS, and have driven a '71 S2. The S2 is a friends, he lets me run it in local slaloms, while he runs his bike engined 7. The stock S2 (~80 hp) on street tires is only slightly slower than his crazy 7. If I don't f*(k up, it's the next fastest car in our club.
My TCS is undergoing a complete resto, including dropping in a Formula Atlantic Cosworth BDD (~220hp), I should be able to give 7s a pretty good run.
If you're close to Banks, you're set. Go make friends with Richard. He is fantastic.
If you can, try to find a car that has been driven, they really don't like to sit. There will be spider cracks in the fibreglass, don't worry, you're normally going to fast for anyone to notice. TC/TCS are slightly larger if you're a big bloke. Try to take one for a drive, they aren't going to drive like a Jag
So, in summary, DO IT!
Gary
PS. You know you want to!
PPS. Join the Yahoo groups Europa list. Great guys, lots of advice there.
The Europa is a blast, easy(ish) to work on, cheap, different, reliable(ish), and FUN.
I own a '73 TCS, and have driven a '71 S2. The S2 is a friends, he lets me run it in local slaloms, while he runs his bike engined 7. The stock S2 (~80 hp) on street tires is only slightly slower than his crazy 7. If I don't f*(k up, it's the next fastest car in our club.
My TCS is undergoing a complete resto, including dropping in a Formula Atlantic Cosworth BDD (~220hp), I should be able to give 7s a pretty good run.
If you're close to Banks, you're set. Go make friends with Richard. He is fantastic.
If you can, try to find a car that has been driven, they really don't like to sit. There will be spider cracks in the fibreglass, don't worry, you're normally going to fast for anyone to notice. TC/TCS are slightly larger if you're a big bloke. Try to take one for a drive, they aren't going to drive like a Jag
So, in summary, DO IT!
Gary
PS. You know you want to!
PPS. Join the Yahoo groups Europa list. Great guys, lots of advice there.
If I do get one I'll certainly check out the Europa List and pay a visit to Banks' (my wallet is trembling already!)
A couple more questions.
What's the difference between a Twin Cam and a Special?
And just how hot does it get in the cabin?
Oh, and any other comments are always welcome.
A couple more questions.
What's the difference between a Twin Cam and a Special?
And just how hot does it get in the cabin?
Oh, and any other comments are always welcome.
The Special had the "Big Valve" cylinder head which gave 126 BHP.
I never found it hot in the cabin of my Special in the five years I owned it, mind you I always had the window open so I could hear the exhaust
The last of the specials had the five speed box which is worth going for, more relaxed cruising.
Cheers,
John W
'95 Esprit S4s
I never found it hot in the cabin of my Special in the five years I owned it, mind you I always had the window open so I could hear the exhaust
The last of the specials had the five speed box which is worth going for, more relaxed cruising.
Cheers,
John W
'95 Esprit S4s
A couple of other differences between the Twin Cam and the Special is that the later have a silver trim piece along the rocker pannel and the rear brake shoes are wider.
If it's been sitting awhile definitely have the engine and brakes checked out, as said before, they really don't like to sit for long periods.
If it's been sitting awhile definitely have the engine and brakes checked out, as said before, they really don't like to sit for long periods.
Bob - also Europa Specials had a rather nice gold trim line arrangement, whereas the std TC didn't, badging also different and cam cover (red and LOTUS motif on TC, Black and fluted appearance with BIG VALVE motif on Special) - now we're getting into fine detail (read pedant) mode
whisper - HAVE YOU BOUGHT IT YET
whisper - HAVE YOU BOUGHT IT YET
Top facts guys!
As for buying it - I'm playing it cool at the moment.
The situation arose from me saying to my mechanic "I want a toy to play with" to which he said "I know a bloke who's got a Europa he hardly uses, I'll ask him if he wants to sell it." Which he did.
The guy said first "let me think about it"...
then "yes, I'll think of I price"...
and then "I don't know if I do want to sell it"
To which his wife said "get it bloody sold! It's cluttering up the barn and you never use it!"
So now I'm waiting to see what happens next.
Though I must admit I'd feel a little guilty depriving a man from his Lotus.
However the guy only gets it out about twice a year, and spends all his time messing around with old military vehicles (of which he has loads). So I suppose he'll still have plenty of toys left.
As for buying it - I'm playing it cool at the moment.
The situation arose from me saying to my mechanic "I want a toy to play with" to which he said "I know a bloke who's got a Europa he hardly uses, I'll ask him if he wants to sell it." Which he did.
The guy said first "let me think about it"...
then "yes, I'll think of I price"...
and then "I don't know if I do want to sell it"
To which his wife said "get it bloody sold! It's cluttering up the barn and you never use it!"
So now I'm waiting to see what happens next.
Though I must admit I'd feel a little guilty depriving a man from his Lotus.
However the guy only gets it out about twice a year, and spends all his time messing around with old military vehicles (of which he has loads). So I suppose he'll still have plenty of toys left.
So, what's the news with the Europa??
If it's sat for awhile, get a mechanic to check it out closely, stuff like brakes (especially boosters, which are stupidly expensive to repair, near impossible to replace), engine/tranny seals, electrical connectors, and chassis bushings all are prone to deterioration without use. And as you may notice, that pretty much constitutes a full rebuild.
Although that can be fun too...
Let us know how it's going.
Gary
If it's sat for awhile, get a mechanic to check it out closely, stuff like brakes (especially boosters, which are stupidly expensive to repair, near impossible to replace), engine/tranny seals, electrical connectors, and chassis bushings all are prone to deterioration without use. And as you may notice, that pretty much constitutes a full rebuild.
Although that can be fun too...
Let us know how it's going.
Gary
Thanks for the interest Gary.
There's not mutch news on the Europa front so far.
As I said previously; I'm taking a softly softly approach at prizing the car from it's current owner, since I don't want to have to pay too much money for what is really an indulgence on my part.
I worry that he may want more for it than i'm willing to pay, since it is pretty original with very low mileage.
In reality I would probably prefer a higher mileage example that has had lots of improvements made (chassis, brakes etc.)
I want to drive it after all - not put it in a museum.
I keep wracking my brains for another car that could give me the kind of fun I'm after from a Europa, but so far I've been unable to settle on anyting else, and unfortunately there's not many Europas on the market at the moment.
If anyone hears of anything interesting going, let me know (I'm in Manchester U.K.).
Failing that if anyone has any good alternative suggestions - you know the kind of thing I'm after; simple engineering, lightweight etc. - be sure to post up your suggestions.
Fingers crossed!
There's not mutch news on the Europa front so far.
As I said previously; I'm taking a softly softly approach at prizing the car from it's current owner, since I don't want to have to pay too much money for what is really an indulgence on my part.
I worry that he may want more for it than i'm willing to pay, since it is pretty original with very low mileage.
In reality I would probably prefer a higher mileage example that has had lots of improvements made (chassis, brakes etc.)
I want to drive it after all - not put it in a museum.
I keep wracking my brains for another car that could give me the kind of fun I'm after from a Europa, but so far I've been unable to settle on anyting else, and unfortunately there's not many Europas on the market at the moment.
If anyone hears of anything interesting going, let me know (I'm in Manchester U.K.).
Failing that if anyone has any good alternative suggestions - you know the kind of thing I'm after; simple engineering, lightweight etc. - be sure to post up your suggestions.
Fingers crossed!
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