A new Lotus Elan ?
Poll: A new Lotus Elan ?
Total Members Polled: 32
Discussion
Lotus is trying to enlarge the model line-up with such cars like the new "Evora". I wondered: Why not develop an new "Elan" which is aimed more "mass-market" and to appeal to a broader target group, a roadster which could compete with the MX5/Miata. That means : Engine in the front, soft-top, using same engines used in the Elise, same price bracket as MX5/Miata (means: of course cheaper than a Elise) and sold worldwide (so not only offered in UK/Europe, but also in the USA). Such a new Elan could become a "entry model" for Lotus. (Of course, the introduction of such a model in an time of economic downturn doesn't seem right, but I'm thinking that such roadster could be a nice addition to the Lotus model line-up in the forseeable future.)
What do you think ?
What do you think ?
GAGA said:
What do you think ?
I think you misunderstand the original Elan's market position. It was never competing in a similar sector to that now occupied by the MX5 (back in the '60's, cars like the MGB and Triumph TR4/5). It was quite an expensive little car - about the same price as a Morgan +8 and substantially more than an Austin Healey 3000 (modern equivalent BMW Z4?). For instance, even the most basic, early Elan (with rubber floor mats and sliding windows!) was nearly 20% more expensive than an Austin Healey 3000 and 45% more than a Triumph TR4.In fact, it filled a niche between cheaper, mass-production sports cars and junior supercars like the Porsche 911.
Sound familiar?
The Elise is the 'new' Elan!
The Elise model range starts at £25K and runs to £40K+, which is pretty much where it should be... a notch above the £16-£20K Mazda in terms of price, performance and desirability at the bottom end, running up to cars which offer junior supercar performance and handling, if not luxury and build quality, for a chunk less than an entry model 911.
Sam_68 said:
GAGA said:
What do you think ?
I think you misunderstand the original Elan's market position. It was never competing in a similar sector to that now occupied by the MX5 (back in the '60's, cars like the MGB and Triumph TR4/5). It was quite an expensive little car - about the same price as a Morgan +8 and substantially more than an Austin Healey 3000 (modern equivalent BMW Z4?). For instance, even the most basic, early Elan (with rubber floor mats and sliding windows!) was nearly 20% more expensive than an Austin Healey 3000 and 45% more than a Triumph TR4.In fact, it filled a niche between cheaper, mass-production sports cars and junior supercars like the Porsche 911.
Sound familiar?
The Elise is the 'new' Elan!
The Elise model range starts at £25K and runs to £40K+, which is pretty much where it should be... a notch above the £16-£20K Mazda in terms of price, performance and desirability at the bottom end, running up to cars which offer junior supercar performance and handling, if not luxury and build quality, for a chunk less than an entry model 911.
GAGA said:
...but I'm talking about "today" and not about "yesterday"
So am I. Like I said, the Elise is the new Elan, and I'm sure Lotus will happily sell you an Elise "today". 
GAGA said:
just call it "new roadster from Lotus which is more conventional and appeals with price and looks to a broader group of buyers"
I can think of catchier names, to be honest. That might work in the Japanese market, though - they seem to like lots of initials on the back of their hot hatchbacks, so you might get away with it.Bit of a break from the 'E' tradition, though...
GAGA said:
Lotus which is more conventional and appeals with price and looks to a broader group of buyers" (e.g. to more women ).
Why would we want Lotus to build a car that appeals to women? Or that is conventional?Lotus has always built cars that are innovative and aimed at enthusiasts.
If you want a nice, soft roadster for women and hairdressers, there are plenty of options from large manufacturers who can afford investment in development and production tooling that Lotus could never consider. Witness, as you have already identified yourself, the disaster of the M100. It was a great car, appealed to a much wider group of buyers (including women - I have a very pretty female friend who bought one when new), but the tooling and manufacturing costs just about bancrupted Lotus and in retrospect there aren't many people who would argue that it advanced the company's reputation much, either.
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 6th December 09:31
Sam_68 said:
GAGA said:
...but I'm talking about "today" and not about "yesterday"
So am I. Like I said, the Elise is the new Elan, and I'm sure Lotus will happily sell you an Elise "today". GAGA said:
just call it "new roadster from Lotus which is more conventional and appeals with price and looks to a broader group of buyers"
I can think of catchier names, to be honest. That might work in the Japanese market, though - they seem to like lots of initials on the back of their hot hatchbacks, so you might get away with it.Bit of a break from the 'E' tradition, though...
GAGA said:
Lotus which is more conventional and appeals with price and looks to a broader group of buyers" (e.g. to more women ).
Why would we want Lotus to build a car that appeals to women? Or that is conventional?Lotus has always built cars that are innovative and aimed at enthusiasts.
If you want a nice, soft roadster for women and hairdressers, there are plenty of options from large manufacturers who can afford investment in development and production tooling that Lotus could never consider. Witness, as you have already identified yourself, the disaster of the M100. It was a great car, appealed to a much wider group of buyers (including women - I have a very pretty female friend who bought one when new), but the tooling and manufacturing costs just about bancrupted Lotus and in retrospect there aren't many people who would argue that it advanced the company's reputation much, either.
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 6th December 09:31
Why NippleJesus ? It just reminds of this very nice old MGB ad:
Why would Lotus want to build such a car ? You can also ask : Why did Porsche develope the "dork mobile" calles Cayenne ? Simple answer : To make money !
The "M100 disaster" was in the end of 80s/beginning of 90s. Lotus has learned a lot in the last years about building niche models as cheap as possible. The "Versatile Vehicle Architecture" from Lotus allows to develop a lot different cars and to build them at the right economies of scale.
I'm thinking about such a roadster as nice "capacity filler", in order to fill unused production capacity or better as a second "volume model". So just imagine 15.000-20.000 additional sales p.a. (worldwide) for Lotus by introduction of such a "soft roadster".
GAGA said:
I'm thinking about such a roadster as nice "capacity filler", in order to fill unused production capacity or better as a second "volume model". So just imagine 15.000-20.000 additional sales p.a. (worldwide) for Lotus by introduction of such a "soft roadster".
But ultimately, such cars just dilute the marque's appeal.Witness the Jaguar X-type, or the Mercedes A-class or, yes, the Porsche Cayenne. Gradually, the company starts to become just another manufacturer - a small, badly funded one in a sea of big fish - nothing more than a cynical branding exercise that eventually even the dimmest people suss out.
Next thing you know, it's just a different bodyshell on a Ford Mondeo floorpan, or a pig-ugly 4x4 on Volkswagen Taureg running gear, or little plastic scorpion badge on the back of a cheap Fiat.
No thanks. I think I'd rather stick with the Elise.
Sam_68 said:
GAGA said:
I'm thinking about such a roadster as nice "capacity filler", in order to fill unused production capacity or better as a second "volume model". So just imagine 15.000-20.000 additional sales p.a. (worldwide) for Lotus by introduction of such a "soft roadster".
But ultimately, such cars just dilute the marque's appeal.Witness the Jaguar X-type, or the Mercedes A-class or, yes, the Porsche Cayenne. Gradually, the company starts to become just another manufacturer - a small, badly funded one in a sea of big fish - nothing more than a cynical branding exercise that eventually even the dimmest people suss out.
Next thing you know, it's just a different bodyshell on a Ford Mondeo floorpan, or a pig-ugly 4x4 on Volkswagen Taureg running gear, or little plastic scorpion badge on the back of a cheap Fiat.
No thanks. I think I'd rather stick with the Elise.
GAGA said:
Beside of that : Who says a nice compact roadster from Lotus wouldn't be fun to drive ?
Despite what we might like to think, Lotus hasn't got some magic formula.It couldn't compete head-to-head with cars like the Mazda MX5; any Lotus built competitor would have to be either far more basic and/or significantly more expensive.
In both cases, guess what? We're back with the Elise...
Why on earth would Lotus want to try and build a competitor to the MX5? Building a car like the MX5 and selling it at a competitive price is not something that a small specialist niche manufacturer could take on: The tooling costs alone would probably bankrupt them. Have you ever been to Hethel and seen how Lotus actually builds its cars? Its a million miles away from the way the likes of Mazda build the MX5, Toyota the last MR2 or Rover and the MGF.
Lotus are far better off keeping themselves in the affordable aspirational market (for most of the population a £25k sports car is aspirational) where they can build cars utilising their engineering expertise and with the dynamic qualities that have always been associated with Lotus and hopefully make a profit.
Lotus are far better off keeping themselves in the affordable aspirational market (for most of the population a £25k sports car is aspirational) where they can build cars utilising their engineering expertise and with the dynamic qualities that have always been associated with Lotus and hopefully make a profit.
I think it would be good.
The M100 had comfort and capacity that was quite good for a small sports car.
I'd like to see a different designer work on it though. All current cars have too much similarity IMO.
Also, the timing is important, unlike the M100 that was launched in poor economic times. So now would not be good!
The M100 had comfort and capacity that was quite good for a small sports car.
I'd like to see a different designer work on it though. All current cars have too much similarity IMO.
Also, the timing is important, unlike the M100 that was launched in poor economic times. So now would not be good!
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