Lotus Elan nowadays?
Discussion
How does a Lotus Elan M100 stack up as a daily driver nowadays?
Theres the legendary FWD handling, but how will it compare to similar cars for £3-4k?
Would I be better off getting an MX-5? I want something a little rarer and more special, hence thoughts of the Elan.
The next car would probably be an Elise when I have the cash.
Theres the legendary FWD handling, but how will it compare to similar cars for £3-4k?
Would I be better off getting an MX-5? I want something a little rarer and more special, hence thoughts of the Elan.
The next car would probably be an Elise when I have the cash.
Edited by was8v on Saturday 22 November 13:39
was8v said:
How does a Lotus Elan M100 stack up as a daily driver nowadays?
Theres the legendary FWD handling, but how will it compare to similar cars for £3-4k?
Would I be better off getting an MX-5? I want something a little rarer and more special, hence thoughts of the Elan.
The next car would probably be an Elise when I have the cash.
In good mechanical condition & well maintained it won't be too far off the original performance which at 6.5 secs to 60 isn't too shabby. A friend who had a C4S followed me one day & said he was surprised at just how quick it seemed to be through the twisties. Theres the legendary FWD handling, but how will it compare to similar cars for £3-4k?
Would I be better off getting an MX-5? I want something a little rarer and more special, hence thoughts of the Elan.
The next car would probably be an Elise when I have the cash.
Edited by was8v on Saturday 22 November 13:39
As a daily driver they are fine, a friend used to do a 50 mile round trip in his daily to work in London. They are a very easy & comfortable drive. They also seem to take the mileage well, there are quite a lot still going well at +100k.
These guys are your best source if you are still interested www.lotuselancentral.com
An M100 Elan Turbo will murder an MX5, point-to-point.
Hell, my old RWD Elan will outpace an MX5...
Where the MX5 will score over the FWD Elan is driver involvement, but there's no doubt an M100 is pefectly capable of setting a reasonable pace against most sub-Elise/Boxter class sportscars, even today.
Hell, my old RWD Elan will outpace an MX5...
Where the MX5 will score over the FWD Elan is driver involvement, but there's no doubt an M100 is pefectly capable of setting a reasonable pace against most sub-Elise/Boxter class sportscars, even today.
I used the one from the Classic Car Club recently and was disappointed. It's a perfectly fine, competent car but its not special like you expect a Lotus to be. Leaks a little.
IMHO I think the Elan is a hell of a car for daily driver, even at much more money. I've had mine for about 8 years now and it has been really reliable, yes thinks have worn and needed (expensive) re-building, but it is a near 20 year old car, all cars require maintance. Properly adjusted hoods with good seals do not leak much and the supply of difficult to obtain parts may now be sorted. The boot is huge in sports car terms (helps to have engine / drive shaft up front!) and is a very comfortable car, compared to the Elise, for longer journeys.
Performance wise, it really depends on what you have driven before: it has plenty of straight line speed, with a nice torquey turbocharged engine (particularly with exhaust and 'mountain' chip). Ride and handling is ideally suited to the road with relatively soft springs but firm damping, so it will roll into corners, but grips hard especially on modern rubber. The brakes are the one weak link. When new, no road test complained about absolute stopping power, but with years of ceasing on the single piston cliper and the over-servoed feel of modern cars, they really do seem 20 years old! Try to get one with upgraded calipers (not just discs and pads).
The problem is that the game has moved on so much in recent years, now turbocharged hatches are (in the real world) as quick as very exotic machinery. I've had it on track a couple of times this year, and it gives a creditable performance against the elises with far stickier rubber.
Buy one with a good history and you will have a great time. Just remember that although cheap to buy, it will still be quite expensive to maintain maybe budget £1000 / year.
Best bit about Elan ownership is that the L.E.C. community are a great bunch that will go out of their way to help you and maintain your car. Cheers
Performance wise, it really depends on what you have driven before: it has plenty of straight line speed, with a nice torquey turbocharged engine (particularly with exhaust and 'mountain' chip). Ride and handling is ideally suited to the road with relatively soft springs but firm damping, so it will roll into corners, but grips hard especially on modern rubber. The brakes are the one weak link. When new, no road test complained about absolute stopping power, but with years of ceasing on the single piston cliper and the over-servoed feel of modern cars, they really do seem 20 years old! Try to get one with upgraded calipers (not just discs and pads).
The problem is that the game has moved on so much in recent years, now turbocharged hatches are (in the real world) as quick as very exotic machinery. I've had it on track a couple of times this year, and it gives a creditable performance against the elises with far stickier rubber.
Buy one with a good history and you will have a great time. Just remember that although cheap to buy, it will still be quite expensive to maintain maybe budget £1000 / year.
Best bit about Elan ownership is that the L.E.C. community are a great bunch that will go out of their way to help you and maintain your car. Cheers
kambites said:
Really? Is that on period or modern tyres?
Of topic, but since you ask...Yes, really.
That's on period sized tyres (obviously not on genuine 35 year old cracked-and-hardened rubber - I'm not that nuts!).
My personal experience is that the Elan is simply in a different league to the MX5 on twisty roads; possibly because the majority of MX5's don't tend to be driven by particularly committed drivers, but mainly, I think, due to the gutsy old 8-valve engine being a lot more torquey than modern 16-valve units, compact size (more nimble and less aero drag) and plain power:weight ratio. A well driven RWD Elan can still snap at the heels of an Elise, on the road, although it would be a different matter on the track, I'm sure.
I refer you to a group test in the September 2003 edition of 'Evo', when Harry Metcalf's Elan Sprint was timed against a Mk. 2 Mazda MX5 1.8iS, Toyota MR2 and Smart Roadster:
| Measurement | Elan | MX5 |
| 0-60mph | 6.8 seconds | 8.4 seconds |
| 0-100mph | 16.3 seconds | 25.7 ( ) seconds |
| Standing 1/4 | 15.2 seconds @93 mph | 16.5 seconds @ 83 mph |
| 50-70mph in 4th | 5.9 second | 7.5 seconds |
| Lap of Bedford Autodrome West Circuit | 91.1 seconds | 92.4 seconds |
Not really so surprising, despite the skinny tyres, though; the Elan has about 145bhp (the published spec. on the Evo road test quoted the standard 126bhp, but I'm pretty sure Harry's Elan has a similar spec. to mine; ported head and QED 420 cams, in my case) and weight about 720 kilos, whereas the Mazda has about the same power (145bhp), but weighs 1100 kilos.
FWIIW, the tyres on Harry's Elan for the test were listed as 155/70 HR13 Michelin MX V's.
andrew. said:
trust me, even in 996 and superleggera terms the elan is still quick...
...and bloody good fun
You are quite right, in my search for a car to replace the Elan, I have driven a variety of cars including S2000, many Elise varients, Astons and an F355 and strangly always felt a little underwelmed....and bloody good fun
The point I was making is that 4 x 4 rice rockets and even cars like Golf GTi's and Megane sports would leave an Elan in their wake on an unfamiliar B road... it all about how much confidence they give to the driver (and their brakes).
The only cars I have had the pleasure of driving that make the Elan feel slow (again in a stright line) were a 4.5 Cerb and 911 GT3 - both rather scary!
I've driven a Sprint DHC (briefly) and was extremely impressed with it - probably the best handling road car I've ever driven. However, it simply didn't feel like it could pull the kinds of cornering G-forces that something like an MX5 can. Maybe the one I drove was on 35 year-old tyres. 
It certainly couldn't keep up with my Elise.
It certainly couldn't keep up with my Elise.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 26th November 12:07
carryondentist said:
andrew. said:
trust me, even in 996 and superleggera terms the elan is still quick...
...and bloody good fun
The only cars I have had the pleasure of driving that make the Elan feel slow (again in a stright line) were a 4.5 Cerb and 911 GT3 - both rather scary!...and bloody good fun
The Lotus engineers originally described the Elan as a car that could be driven at 90% of it's capability, by 90% of drivers 90% of the time. To describe a GT3 would be to say 90% of it's capability, by 5% of drivers, 5% of the time!!
(no I'm not one of those 5%)The Elan is a great car but it is getting on for 20yrs old, but roof down it still looks great, design is almost timeless.
kambites said:
I've driven a Sprint DHC (briefly) and was extremely impressed with it - probably the best handling road car I've ever driven. However, it simply didn't feel like it could pull the kinds of cornering G-forces that something like an MX5 can. Maybe the one I drove was on 35 year-old tyres.
It certainly couldn't keep up with my Elise.
No, the cornering G is probably not as good as the MX5, and certainly nowhere near the Elise - an Elan can typically pull a smidgen less than 0.9G on a steering circle; an Elise will pull over 1.0G.It certainly couldn't keep up with my Elise.
If you look at the figures I quoted above, though, you'll see that the circuit lap time is only slightly better than the MX5, whilst the Elan is much quicker throughout the range on acceleration, and therein lies your answer...
...On the road, cornering speed is more often than not limited by forward visibility rather than grip, so the Elan is able to take corners just as quickly as the MX5 in most instances, but then can out accelerate it dramatically on the straights. Same principle applies when chasing Elises... the mid-range acceleration of a mildly tuned Elan is a fair match for most K-series Elises, so if the Elise is unable to exploit it's greater cornering power, it has no real advantage. That's why I said it would be a different matter on a circuit, since on a circuit your cornering speed is not limited by forward visibility, only by available grip.
Having said all which, Elans are famous for having greater reserves of grip than even reasonably skilled drivers credit them with at first acquaintance. Basically, people these days aren't used to the much greater slip angles that tall, narrow profile tyres operate at. For some reason there is a 'stepped' feel to the way the slip angles develop on the Elan; some drivers have described it as feeling as though the tyre has rolled onto it's sidewalls, as the car takes a 'set' into a bend. People who are unfamiliar with the Elan, not unreasonably, take this first marked increase in slip angle as a warning that the car is approaching its limit and don't push any further.
...which is a shame, because the real joy of the Elan's handling is its ability to maintain perfectly balanced 4-wheel drifts at slip angles that cars with modern, low-profile tyres can only dream about, and in fact the reserves of grip go a lot deeper.
If you get the chance to drive one again, the best way to explore it is on a steering circle or a wide, deserted roundabout. You'll be amazed how far you can push it, balanced on the throttle with all 4 tyres howling in a completely predictable, almost neutral 4-wheel drift.
I would have though visibility would have been more of a restriction in the Elan because it would have longer stopping distances. If it pulls, say, 0.9g under braking as opposed to 1.0 for an MX5, the MX5 can be going faster and still able to stop in the distance it can see.
I know when driving my MGB on roads with bad visibility, I can't push as hard as in the Elise simply because the brakes are crap.
I know when driving my MGB on roads with bad visibility, I can't push as hard as in the Elise simply because the brakes are crap.
The brakes on an Elan are perfectly adequate, so are no real limitation (and tyre contact patch per kilo of car weight is probably better than the MX5, with a lower CG meaning less longitudinal weight transfer under braking).
But in any case, you again need to be realistic about road driving. Tell me, honestly, how many times on the road you brake for a corner so hard that you are teetering on the edge of lock up, then negotiate that corner right on the edge of the car's limit of grip? It just doesn't happen. If it does, then you need to have your licence removed. And the difference in cornering power really isn't that big - as I said earlier, the Elan has been measured at 0.89G, the Elise at just over 1.0G, and it's a reasonable bet that the MX5 is somewhere between the two. If you can consistently exploit the additional ~0.1G difference in road driving then:
a) you're a better driver than me, and
b) you're a suicidal nutcase.
Whereas superior acceleration out of a corner is easy to deploy...
Anyway, the proof of the pudding and all that... trust me, I've never encountered an MX5 that could even get close to staying with me in the Elan on country lane.
But in any case, you again need to be realistic about road driving. Tell me, honestly, how many times on the road you brake for a corner so hard that you are teetering on the edge of lock up, then negotiate that corner right on the edge of the car's limit of grip? It just doesn't happen. If it does, then you need to have your licence removed. And the difference in cornering power really isn't that big - as I said earlier, the Elan has been measured at 0.89G, the Elise at just over 1.0G, and it's a reasonable bet that the MX5 is somewhere between the two. If you can consistently exploit the additional ~0.1G difference in road driving then:
a) you're a better driver than me, and
b) you're a suicidal nutcase.
Whereas superior acceleration out of a corner is easy to deploy...
Anyway, the proof of the pudding and all that... trust me, I've never encountered an MX5 that could even get close to staying with me in the Elan on country lane.
This is very true. Even if the MX5 could safely carry more speed through the corner, I suppose it wouldn't be much more.
I'll have to have a longer drive in an Elan. I seriously considered buying one instead of the Elise but eventually decided that I didn't want to put up with a leaky classic as my only car again. Maybe I could find a place for one beside the Elise though, you can never have too many Lotuses.
I'll have to have a longer drive in an Elan. I seriously considered buying one instead of the Elise but eventually decided that I didn't want to put up with a leaky classic as my only car again. Maybe I could find a place for one beside the Elise though, you can never have too many Lotuses.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 26th November 18:21
Okay people, let me remind you that we are discussing the M100 Elan here, not the original.
I think the M100 is very good value for money at the moment. Its quick (especially with a mountain chip installed), handles very well indeed and is a real head-turner. I've had little trouble keeping up with more exotic machinery on twisty roads which has been surprising.
Its also probably the most reliable car Lotus has ever made due to it having a bulletproof engine.
They will cost about £1000 a year to keep in good condition though.
I think the M100 is very good value for money at the moment. Its quick (especially with a mountain chip installed), handles very well indeed and is a real head-turner. I've had little trouble keeping up with more exotic machinery on twisty roads which has been surprising.
Its also probably the most reliable car Lotus has ever made due to it having a bulletproof engine.
They will cost about £1000 a year to keep in good condition though.
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