Evora too expensive?
Discussion
Guys,
I've posted on here previously in support of the Evora (and I've got a deposit down) - overall, it looks like a great car, but I'm starting to wonder if it's too expensive, especially considering what else you can get (especially going second hand) for the same money.
Assuming that a reasonably-spec'd car is going to come in around 50-55k, it's amazing just what you can get for the money. DB9's are starting not much north of that; and 996GT3's are plentiful at that price point - what are your thoughts?
I test drove a DB9 last week and it was truly amazing - and when you start to think that the Evora is going to have to make do with 280bhp to start with, it's starting to look a lot of money for not huge performance.
I know it's never fair to compare new with used, but thinking realistically about what I could get for 55k, there are looking like some good choices (especially with another 6-9 months of credit crunch depreciation to factor in by the time the Evora could be delivered)...
I've posted on here previously in support of the Evora (and I've got a deposit down) - overall, it looks like a great car, but I'm starting to wonder if it's too expensive, especially considering what else you can get (especially going second hand) for the same money.
Assuming that a reasonably-spec'd car is going to come in around 50-55k, it's amazing just what you can get for the money. DB9's are starting not much north of that; and 996GT3's are plentiful at that price point - what are your thoughts?
I test drove a DB9 last week and it was truly amazing - and when you start to think that the Evora is going to have to make do with 280bhp to start with, it's starting to look a lot of money for not huge performance.
I know it's never fair to compare new with used, but thinking realistically about what I could get for 55k, there are looking like some good choices (especially with another 6-9 months of credit crunch depreciation to factor in by the time the Evora could be delivered)...
Same applies to any car, new against second hand.
The important factor you're forgetting is going to be the cost of maintenance. You can pick up second hand 1980's Ferraris for 20K that will give you a lot of car for not much money. That is until you have to get them serviced and you're paying another 20K each year keeping it on the road.
No idea what the running costs of a second hand DB9 will be, but I imagine they'll be more than a brand new toyota engined car.
The important factor you're forgetting is going to be the cost of maintenance. You can pick up second hand 1980's Ferraris for 20K that will give you a lot of car for not much money. That is until you have to get them serviced and you're paying another 20K each year keeping it on the road.
No idea what the running costs of a second hand DB9 will be, but I imagine they'll be more than a brand new toyota engined car.
Take any new car you like and compare it against what you can have used and it will appear poor value.
However you need to consider the joy of spec'ing a car and being the first name in the book.
More seriously comparing a 50K car against one that cost 100K+ new you need to think long and hard about running costs.
Can't believe a DB9 will be as cheap to look after an Evora. Would the DB9 still be covered by a warranty?
However you need to consider the joy of spec'ing a car and being the first name in the book.
More seriously comparing a 50K car against one that cost 100K+ new you need to think long and hard about running costs.
Can't believe a DB9 will be as cheap to look after an Evora. Would the DB9 still be covered by a warranty?
Uh, I'm pretty sure that long term the Evora will be cheaper to maintain and will retain its value better than a DB9. If you can get a DB9, today, for the price of an Evora imagine what the price of your DB9 tomorrow!!! Also think about the hefty revision bill, maintenance of a toyota V6, even tuned cannot be as expensive as the basic V12 check up!
Exneda said:
Uh, I'm pretty sure that long term the Evora will be cheaper to maintain and will retain its value better than a DB9. If you can get a DB9, today, for the price of an Evora imagine what the price of your DB9 tomorrow!!!
Are you sure about that? A second hand DB9 having lost a lot already vs a new Lotus?How are the orders looking for the Evora? Much of a shortage?
Truth is, no I'm not! But Evora should be more of a rarity in the end! A lotus more exclusive than an Aston! Less expensive to run than a DB9! With a style that even if different is distinctive enough! Brand new versus second hand! Well I think I know where my money is/would be going!
LOL ...I echo all the above comments, apart from the depreciation curve...the DB9 is nearing the end - £50K will see you into an early 5yr old car, extended warranty if you pay £1500 a year, and at £1500 a service you want the warranty
...but It wont drop much more unless you put like 100k miles on it..probably down in the 40's after that its sold on condition.
The Evora is a new car, it WILL lose 50% or more of its value in 3 years, try to name a few cars that dont?...not many...options also dont count much used, except for making a car easier to sell, you dont get the value back. So a £48K car will be £24K or less in 3 years, and in the teens at 5 years
so you lose £10K on a DB9 and drive around in a £120K car that costs a lot to run or buy a new one, lose £25-30K, but its cheaper to run and you are in a £50K car mmmmmm...tough decisions boys...and as said above - £50K gets you into some serious machinery...just about anything really, age dependant.
Of course, all of us have different requirements, some need a daily driver, some need a track day capable car, some need to park it in the work carpark...etc..etc, we all choose cars with many factors to consider not JUST price and value and the more cash you have the more choice ! what a tough problem to have
...but It wont drop much more unless you put like 100k miles on it..probably down in the 40's after that its sold on condition.The Evora is a new car, it WILL lose 50% or more of its value in 3 years, try to name a few cars that dont?...not many...options also dont count much used, except for making a car easier to sell, you dont get the value back. So a £48K car will be £24K or less in 3 years, and in the teens at 5 years
so you lose £10K on a DB9 and drive around in a £120K car that costs a lot to run or buy a new one, lose £25-30K, but its cheaper to run and you are in a £50K car mmmmmm...tough decisions boys...and as said above - £50K gets you into some serious machinery...just about anything really, age dependant.
Of course, all of us have different requirements, some need a daily driver, some need a track day capable car, some need to park it in the work carpark...etc..etc, we all choose cars with many factors to consider not JUST price and value and the more cash you have the more choice ! what a tough problem to have
I completely agree with everything said above. The Evora is a new car, but I don't think it's a worse purchase financially than any other new £50k car. If anything I'd expect supply to exceed demand and values to be reasonably buoyant. The secondhand arguments will always exist, and as many others have pointed out, the lower depreciation of something already more than 3 years old often offsets its higher service costs. Much of it depends on how you get your money and when of course - some people can't stomach annual bills of £1500, even though they'll happily lose twice that on a new car in depreciation.
Being a bit tongue in cheek, I've got to answer this:
Seriously though, and back to the point, a £50k car will lose half of its value in 3 years, which is £700 a month, and to be honest pretty much the only thing stopping me buying an Evora or a Cayman S.
Being a bit tongue in cheek, I've got to answer this:
bogie said:
The Evora is a new car, it WILL lose 50% or more of its value in 3 years, try to name a few cars that dont?
I was really shocked to see two 2003 S2 111Ss just like mine for sale recently for £17k to £18k. They were £25k new in 2003. That's rather good isn't it? Yes, the cars may only be worth £15k, but that's still 70%!Seriously though, and back to the point, a £50k car will lose half of its value in 3 years, which is £700 a month, and to be honest pretty much the only thing stopping me buying an Evora or a Cayman S.
yea, the Elise has always been unusual Rob 
I used to chuckle when youd see owners, had a new Exige a while, gone to trade in and then moaning about how much theyd lost, whereas compared to any other car, theyd done very well indeed.
Some 10 year old Elises are STILL holding 50% of purchase price !
The Elise is certainly one of the best cars out there, for holding value long term
I used to chuckle when youd see owners, had a new Exige a while, gone to trade in and then moaning about how much theyd lost, whereas compared to any other car, theyd done very well indeed.
Some 10 year old Elises are STILL holding 50% of purchase price !
The Elise is certainly one of the best cars out there, for holding value long term
bogie said:
yea, the Elise has always been unusual Rob
I used to chuckle when youd see owners, had a new Exige a while, gone to trade in and then moaning about how much theyd lost, whereas compared to any other car, theyd done very well indeed.
Some 10 year old Elises are STILL holding 50% of purchase price !
The Elise is certainly one of the best cars out there, for holding value long term
I used to chuckle when youd see owners, had a new Exige a while, gone to trade in and then moaning about how much theyd lost, whereas compared to any other car, theyd done very well indeed.
Some 10 year old Elises are STILL holding 50% of purchase price !
The Elise is certainly one of the best cars out there, for holding value long term
Sorry, it was a bit off topic, but it only really struck me at the weekend how little value my car had lost. I was reading the classifieds in my £1 Autocar from the motor show I remember when the Elise first came out, they were selling above list for about a year or two!
Mind you, all academic to me as I'm never selling my Elise!
bogie said:
LOL ...I echo all the above comments, apart from the depreciation curve...the DB9 is nearing the end - £50K will see you into an early 5yr old car, extended warranty if you pay £1500 a year, and at £1500 a service you want the warranty ...but It wont drop much more unless you put like 100k miles on it..probably down in the 40's after that its sold on condition.
If you can get a Virage for 20K I fail to see why a DB9 won't drop to those levels. ...but It wont drop much more unless you put like 100k miles on it..probably down in the 40's after that its sold on condition.Sometimes I think there are 'plateaus' of depreciation, where cars drop into a lower price bracket and because of the renewed interest, suddenly hold their value for a couple of years. Unless they are truly classic, prices will drop again as natural wear and tear gets the better of the car.
Being plastic and alu probably helps the Elise keep it's long term value a little better, as it hides / avoids a certain amount of aging that would otherwise damage the second hand price.
If the Evora enjoys even half the success of the Elise, the chances of getting a second hand bargain in the first three years or so is probably pretty slim.
Being plastic and alu probably helps the Elise keep it's long term value a little better, as it hides / avoids a certain amount of aging that would otherwise damage the second hand price.
If the Evora enjoys even half the success of the Elise, the chances of getting a second hand bargain in the first three years or so is probably pretty slim.
Good to see I've provoked some comments, then!
Some interesting price dynamics in here: I think the balance is pretty similar - if I assume a good spec Evora will be £60k, and that a DB9 next summer will cost about the same, then:
Depreciation:
I think the DB9 will continue to lose around £1000 a month over the first year before starting to plateau - I could certainly imagine high mileage cars (which are really not much under £60k now) being just under £50k in a year's time. Another 2 years after that they may get as low as £40k, but I'd be surprised if they get down to £30k? But let's say £30k depreciation for the DB9. As mentioned above, you would expect the Evora to lose half it's value in 3 years, so £30k.
Servicing costs:
With a decent warranty (£2k a year?), the DB9 major service is only £1000 - I guess the Evora will be a bit less (but probably not much less from an official Lotus Dealer - and you'd need that to get the stamps in the book - I know you can get Elise services much cheaper, but as a new £60k, I'd want to get the right stamps in the book).
Other costs:
Insurance is going to be pretty similar. I guess the DB9 will drink way more petrol, so a bit more pricey - I probably wouldn't do any track days in the DB9 whereas I might in the Evora.
So I guess the DB9 will be a bit more pricey, but not a huge amount, and so it all comes down to how great it would be to have one of the first of the new Lotus compared to how great it is to have what was a £120k car, and yes, it's great to have a new car, rather than somebody else's leftovers...
It's going to need a bit of thought - and ultimately, I think it will depend on what the Evora drives like, and if it really feels that special - I'm wondering if 280bhp is enough to lug around 1.3 tons... I suppose it's about the same as my old S1 Elise in terms of power:weight, so should feel pretty swift.
Alternatively, I guess if finances were the main consideration, you'd say sod it and join one of the car clubs - £10k a year and all done.
Some interesting price dynamics in here: I think the balance is pretty similar - if I assume a good spec Evora will be £60k, and that a DB9 next summer will cost about the same, then:
Depreciation:
I think the DB9 will continue to lose around £1000 a month over the first year before starting to plateau - I could certainly imagine high mileage cars (which are really not much under £60k now) being just under £50k in a year's time. Another 2 years after that they may get as low as £40k, but I'd be surprised if they get down to £30k? But let's say £30k depreciation for the DB9. As mentioned above, you would expect the Evora to lose half it's value in 3 years, so £30k.
Servicing costs:
With a decent warranty (£2k a year?), the DB9 major service is only £1000 - I guess the Evora will be a bit less (but probably not much less from an official Lotus Dealer - and you'd need that to get the stamps in the book - I know you can get Elise services much cheaper, but as a new £60k, I'd want to get the right stamps in the book).
Other costs:
Insurance is going to be pretty similar. I guess the DB9 will drink way more petrol, so a bit more pricey - I probably wouldn't do any track days in the DB9 whereas I might in the Evora.
So I guess the DB9 will be a bit more pricey, but not a huge amount, and so it all comes down to how great it would be to have one of the first of the new Lotus compared to how great it is to have what was a £120k car, and yes, it's great to have a new car, rather than somebody else's leftovers...
It's going to need a bit of thought - and ultimately, I think it will depend on what the Evora drives like, and if it really feels that special - I'm wondering if 280bhp is enough to lug around 1.3 tons... I suppose it's about the same as my old S1 Elise in terms of power:weight, so should feel pretty swift.
Alternatively, I guess if finances were the main consideration, you'd say sod it and join one of the car clubs - £10k a year and all done.
Not to mention how glaringly different the Evora and DB9 are! I can't see there being much overlap between the customer bases to be honest. The Evora is a lightweight 2+2 mid-engined coupe, and the Aston is a whopping great front engined GT!
The new vs used argument can be applied at any price point, and can get a bit silly (I'd rather have a Ferrari 550 than a DB9 for starters!) but nevertheless it's a decision we all make if we have the money to spend on a car. To judge the Evora for what it is I think we need to firstly look at the new cars it's going up against - namely the Cayman S and possibly even the base model 997 Carrera 2.
The new vs used argument can be applied at any price point, and can get a bit silly (I'd rather have a Ferrari 550 than a DB9 for starters!) but nevertheless it's a decision we all make if we have the money to spend on a car. To judge the Evora for what it is I think we need to firstly look at the new cars it's going up against - namely the Cayman S and possibly even the base model 997 Carrera 2.
beano700 said:
Why do people keep saying that the Evora is light.!
1350kg is not light, I would say that Lotus should keep quiet with regards to the weight issue because they have failed in my opinion.The new Artega is much lighter.
My question is how did lotus manage to make it so god damn heavy?
Sorry, I was merely comparing it to the DB9. Completely different sort of car, and I can't see someone who wants a DB9 wanting an Evora, and vice versa.1350kg is not light, I would say that Lotus should keep quiet with regards to the weight issue because they have failed in my opinion.The new Artega is much lighter.
My question is how did lotus manage to make it so god damn heavy?
beano700 said:
Why do people keep saying that the Evora is light.!
1350kg is not light, I would say that Lotus should keep quiet with regards to the weight issue because they have failed in my opinion.The new Artega is much lighter.
My question is how did lotus manage to make it so god damn heavy?
Isn't the Artega just a two seater? Can you buy one yet? The stats I've read put it's performance as being almost exactly the same as the Evora (0-60 in 5sec, top speed 167mph) so clearly the weight difference doesn't seem to be of much benefit to it.1350kg is not light, I would say that Lotus should keep quiet with regards to the weight issue because they have failed in my opinion.The new Artega is much lighter.
My question is how did lotus manage to make it so god damn heavy?
1350 Kg isn't bad - about the same as the Porsche. So far it is just an estimate though as development has not completed yet. Lotus have separately said that the car is 150 kilos lighter than the German car, so who knows?
For a well specced GT, there aren't that many areas where you can save significant weight without going to some seriously exotic materials, which would probably double the cost. If this was produced as a stripped out car, which is how Lotus made the Elise so light, it would bomb.
It's also about the same weight as the Lotus Excel, which was produced before there were so many crash safety requirements.
beano700 said:
Why do people keep saying that the Evora is light.!
1350kg is not light, I would say that Lotus should keep quiet with regards to the weight issue because they have failed in my opinion.The new Artega is much lighter.
My question is how did lotus manage to make it so god damn heavy?
The answer to you question is very simple 2 extra seats in the back, no carbon fiber to keep cost under control! So snap out if it! Direct competition is in the same weight category and generally it's going to be heavier! the Artega is a super exotic with carbon fiber only two seat and about 40 cm smaller 3,90m vs 4,30m!1350kg is not light, I would say that Lotus should keep quiet with regards to the weight issue because they have failed in my opinion.The new Artega is much lighter.
My question is how did lotus manage to make it so god damn heavy?
You want your Evora lighter, that's easy replace the Recaro seats by some ultralight Probax, get rid of the Isofix at the back, replace heavyweight leather by Sensosoft... Doing all that, you could probably shed some 40-50 kg! So here you go, you're back within the 1290 kg range! Light enough for you!?
It's always been about the handling and weight to power ratio! 0 to 60 is going to be good, handling is going to be good.
You want more power and less weight just wait for the SC version!
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