favourite classic Lotus?
Discussion
having recently read a book about Lotus and Colin Chapman I've increased my desire to get a classic, chapman era lotus.
What are people's favourite classic lotuses? I expect the original elan sprint is in there but surely the +2 represents much better value? And how does the Europa compare to an elan to drive?
My current faves would be a mint +2S big valve, maybe a mk 2 lotus cortina or an essex turbo esprit, which I figure would all be around the same money and a lot less than an Elan Sprint.
What are people's favourite classic lotuses? I expect the original elan sprint is in there but surely the +2 represents much better value? And how does the Europa compare to an elan to drive?
My current faves would be a mint +2S big valve, maybe a mk 2 lotus cortina or an essex turbo esprit, which I figure would all be around the same money and a lot less than an Elan Sprint.
The Plus 2 is good value, but not dramatically cheaper than an Elan if you are comparing like-with-like (ie. fixed head Elan with +2, in similar condition). It feels a much more 'grown up' car, though, whereas the 2-seater feels too small and vulnerable to many people. It gives better grip, due to the wider track, but it doesn't feel as nimble and - despite what some people would have you believe - the extra size and weight makes a noticeable difference when it comes to performance.
The Europa is very different to the Elan to drive in some ways - much lighter steering and the driving position gives it a different character - but very similar in others (the damping and steering response clearly came from the same engineering team). The aerodynamics were the most striking thing when I first drove one, though - you can wind the window down at speed and still waft along in complete silence, with total abscence of wind roar. The only thing that really spoils the Europa (and the +2S 130/5) for me, though, is the quality of the gearchange; the Europa's because of the long rod linkage and the +2S 130/5 because of the nasty Lotus gearbox. The 4 speed Ford box in the Elan has the proverbial rifle-bolt action, even if the short gearing does drive you nuts on the motorway!
On balance, having owned or driven all of the '60's Lotuses, I have to say that the 2-seater Elan remains my favourite out of the backbone chassis cars by a considerable margin.
... but if I could justify the cost, it would have to be an Eleven, a Fifteen or an Elite.
The Europa is very different to the Elan to drive in some ways - much lighter steering and the driving position gives it a different character - but very similar in others (the damping and steering response clearly came from the same engineering team). The aerodynamics were the most striking thing when I first drove one, though - you can wind the window down at speed and still waft along in complete silence, with total abscence of wind roar. The only thing that really spoils the Europa (and the +2S 130/5) for me, though, is the quality of the gearchange; the Europa's because of the long rod linkage and the +2S 130/5 because of the nasty Lotus gearbox. The 4 speed Ford box in the Elan has the proverbial rifle-bolt action, even if the short gearing does drive you nuts on the motorway!
On balance, having owned or driven all of the '60's Lotuses, I have to say that the 2-seater Elan remains my favourite out of the backbone chassis cars by a considerable margin.
... but if I could justify the cost, it would have to be an Eleven, a Fifteen or an Elite.
Non-track: my favorite is the Seven. If you can get your hands on a cosworth, they have pretty impressive acceleration for today's standards. The Europa would be my second choice
Track: The 23B all the way
BTW, I follow the prices of these cars closely and I can tell you that an 11 or a 15 is not depreciating asset in any way! Actually if you race it with some success you can make money o it :-O
If you want to check some sport racers from that era, one of my blogs has a monthly market letter of sorts: http://lotusdriver.blogspot.com
Track: The 23B all the way
BTW, I follow the prices of these cars closely and I can tell you that an 11 or a 15 is not depreciating asset in any way! Actually if you race it with some success you can make money o it :-O
If you want to check some sport racers from that era, one of my blogs has a monthly market letter of sorts: http://lotusdriver.blogspot.com
Edited by joaovc on Monday 7th July 19:29
Edited by joaovc on Monday 7th July 19:32
joaovc said:
BTW, I follow the prices of these cars closely and I can tell you that an 11 or a 15 is not depreciating asset in any way! Actually if you race it with some success you can make money o it :-O
Yes, I agree: values of Elevens in particular have risen dramatically in recent years. Regrettably, I can't afford £80K+ for a decent Le Mans Eleven for the limited use I'd get out of it while it continues to appreciate!I can't remember the last time I saw a Fifteen for sale, to be honest.
many thanks,
any views on the 70's elite and eclat or are you just better off getting an excel? you can can pick them up for very reasonable money at the moment.
ps I already have a 7, a Caterham but I didn't realise how faithful they remained to the Lotus original until I recently. Staggering how effective and on the pace the 7 design still is. There's very little that can touch one at trackdays. Mind you i was very impressed by a race prep'd original elan at brands a few weeks ago. It was going like the clappers and not much got past that either.
any views on the 70's elite and eclat or are you just better off getting an excel? you can can pick them up for very reasonable money at the moment.
ps I already have a 7, a Caterham but I didn't realise how faithful they remained to the Lotus original until I recently. Staggering how effective and on the pace the 7 design still is. There's very little that can touch one at trackdays. Mind you i was very impressed by a race prep'd original elan at brands a few weeks ago. It was going like the clappers and not much got past that either.
Edited by The Pits on Monday 7th July 22:55
The Pits said:
many thanks,
any views on the 70's elite and eclat or are you just better off getting an excel? you can can pick them up for very reasonable money at the moment.
The Eclat/Excel don't seem to have achieved any sort of classic status and from a price point of view don't seem to have held their value. You can get a late model Excel for half the price of a similar age Esprit, though they share the same engine. It's an overlooked classic, but definately has the Lotus pedigree. any views on the 70's elite and eclat or are you just better off getting an excel? you can can pick them up for very reasonable money at the moment.
From an ownership point of view, the late model Excel has the reputation of being the most reliable Lotus, with Toyota sourced running gear, pretty comfortable (modern) spec and put together for executive customers with some care. They make very comfortable grand tourers, but you can wring the neck of the engine and get a good turn of speed. Fuel consumption is poor though.
Completely agree with Tuna - my Excel is a daily driver and used for trips down through France at least once a year. Never had any major problems with it, as long as it's checked regularly and maintenance isn't skimped.
Fuel economy isn't too bad - 25-30 mpg on average.
If you're thinking of getting one - http://www.lotusexcel.net/
Fuel economy isn't too bad - 25-30 mpg on average.
If you're thinking of getting one - http://www.lotusexcel.net/
thanks, I've always liked the excel. The dealer who sold me my first lotus (an esprit) always used to say the excel was the best handling of the lot and that included the front wheel drive elan. Interesting that the new eagle marks a return to the 2+2 format, lets hope it looks as good in 20 years as the excel does now!
Agree with the Excel being a very good choice.
I had one as a daily driver and, as has been said, so long as you don't skimp on the maintenance/service side you will not be disappointed.
Fuel consumption was something I never really measured - I just know when I drove it it seemed to use more than when the wife drove it
Don't forget that it's a 4 seater, and the back seats are usable for an adult. The boot is a decent size - two full sets of golf clubs will fit. Stupidly cheap to insure c£100 fully comp per year on a classic policy.
The only downside is, as it's such a practical car you will use it more than you now think you will
I went to the Goodwood FOS last year in mine - Skegness to Goodwood and back in the same day!
Early morning A roads (nice!), queuing to get in, on the way back sat in traffic on the M25 and a very nice blast (no I'm not putting the speed on here!) on the A1 near Peterborough - the car took it all in it stride, never missed a beat.
As soon as funds allow I'm getting another one!
I had one as a daily driver and, as has been said, so long as you don't skimp on the maintenance/service side you will not be disappointed.
Fuel consumption was something I never really measured - I just know when I drove it it seemed to use more than when the wife drove it
Don't forget that it's a 4 seater, and the back seats are usable for an adult. The boot is a decent size - two full sets of golf clubs will fit. Stupidly cheap to insure c£100 fully comp per year on a classic policy.
The only downside is, as it's such a practical car you will use it more than you now think you will
I went to the Goodwood FOS last year in mine - Skegness to Goodwood and back in the same day!
Early morning A roads (nice!), queuing to get in, on the way back sat in traffic on the M25 and a very nice blast (no I'm not putting the speed on here!) on the A1 near Peterborough - the car took it all in it stride, never missed a beat.
As soon as funds allow I'm getting another one!
You'll find lots of stuff on the Excel, Elite and Eclat on
www.lotusexcel.co.uk
Broad cover forum with lots of info and shots of cars.
Great car to own and run.
www.lotusexcel.co.uk
Broad cover forum with lots of info and shots of cars.
Great car to own and run.
The Pits said:
many thanks,
any views on the 70's elite and eclat or are you just better off getting an excel? you can can pick them up for very reasonable money at the moment.
The Elite 501/2/3/4 are hugely under rated cars, and with a lot of time and not a small amount of money spent on then they can be a real head turner. Reliabe is not a word that I would necessarily use to describe these cars, but when working, fabulous, modern and impressive fit the remit. any views on the 70's elite and eclat or are you just better off getting an excel? you can can pick them up for very reasonable money at the moment.
A well sorted Elite 501 in Red can twang knicker elastic at 500 yards.
Have a wander through this to see what ownership is like. http://www.pistonheads.com/members/showServiceHist...
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