Looking at a 1967 Elan SE3 - advice please
Discussion
OK, new to all things Lotus (well never owned one before at least) but always fancied an original Elan.
Went to look at a 1967 d/h SE3 which has apparently done some racing at some point as it has a different rear end tub. Has a red Spyder chassis, solid drive shafts and allegedly a big valve head fitted.
It needs paint and some detail.
The engine certainly appears not to be oil tight (are any of them?) but the water pump tensioner has plenty of adjustment left on it. Also has a lumentiiton set up on it.
Interior is fairly tidy, but again a little tlc wouldn't go amiss.
Up for £10k, butthat seems too much to me.
Any thoughts, advice, pointers etc much appreciated!
Went to look at a 1967 d/h SE3 which has apparently done some racing at some point as it has a different rear end tub. Has a red Spyder chassis, solid drive shafts and allegedly a big valve head fitted.
It needs paint and some detail.
The engine certainly appears not to be oil tight (are any of them?) but the water pump tensioner has plenty of adjustment left on it. Also has a lumentiiton set up on it.
Interior is fairly tidy, but again a little tlc wouldn't go amiss.
Up for £10k, butthat seems too much to me.
Any thoughts, advice, pointers etc much appreciated!
best talking to Sam68 about "baby" Elans... Differing opinions with regard to the solid drive shaft conversions, some like them, others don't (I'm split on this!) I quite like the wind up from the rotoflex's. Premature diff issues can be caused with hard driven cars with solid shafts. Spyder chassis is a good choice with regards to a replacement one, an engine rebuild will set you back around £5k (you could do it your self for less than half though) listen for untoward rattles and check for play in the water pump pulley and check to see that the belt isn't too tight, these are a pig to change, You should have either twin webbers or twin strombergs on an S/E, the stromberg engine has a different and less desirable head, perversely its a smoother and more economical engine, but the webbers are "more macho!" to Identify the engine spec isn't easy without some dismantling, so demand proof of the spec..... all twincams are "big Valve" jobs, honest;), the inlets are 1mm larger than standard and the ports are slightly reworked, the head skimmed (cant remember by how much) to give a higher compression ratio and the cams should have 2 grooves on the boss that the cam gears sit on, the S/E cams have one groove here. £10K should get you a tidy useable car in my opinion, £7 ish for a runner with a new chassis and in need of paint sooner rather than later, basket cases between £3.5 and £5K, a fresh restored car needing no work at all would be in the £12 to £17K range depending on who did the work and who is doing the selling, dealers can try to bump them up higher. Join lotuselan.net and have a nosey around on there, its the best place for info, club Lotus is useful for contacts and trade ads, also cheaper insurance and agreed valuations.
Great cars if you get a good one, time/money consuming if you get a bad one!
By the way, the adjuster screw near the distributor is for the timing chain, and should have around an inch of thread showing for a healthy one, the less thread showing the higher the slipper wear and the more stretched the chain is.
Great cars if you get a good one, time/money consuming if you get a bad one!
By the way, the adjuster screw near the distributor is for the timing chain, and should have around an inch of thread showing for a healthy one, the less thread showing the higher the slipper wear and the more stretched the chain is.
ELAN+2 said:
best talking to Sam68 about "baby" Elans...
Apologies, I've been away for a few days, but Elan+2's covered most of it, anyway...I'd agree that it sounds overpriced for a car needing paint. Note that a top quality paint job for an Elan will set you back in the region of £5K, so everything else would need to be perfect to justify the asking price.
As Elan+2 says, the only way you can tell if it's genuinely a big valve conversion is by taking the cylinder off and measuring the valves. Look for receipts for the work, though - there are only a handful of engine builders left in the UK who I'd trust with a Twin Cam cylinder head (with QED and Nick Stagg at the top of the list). The grooves in the camshaft bosses will tell you the origin of the cams if you lift the cam cover, but, of course, it's possible they have been re-ground to a different profile. The valves on their own don't make that much difference to the performance, though, so don't rule a car out on those grounds alone. A '67 S3 should be fitted with Webers; the Stromberg engine was not introduced until the S4. Any Weber/Dellorto car can be rebuilt to QED's 420 spec, which gives a torquey, reliable 145bhp. The Stromberg cars are nice enough in standard form, provided the carbs are in perfect condition, but you're wasting your time trying to tune them for more than about 125bhp (in S/E spec they are 118bhp as standard) and getting worn carbs rebuilt is becoming problematical. The other, insurmountable problem with Strombergs is icing in cool, damp weather...
Apart from checking the water pump and timing chain, the other essential check is to start the engine from flat cold (ie. having stood at least overnight) to check for exhaust smoke. Anything more than a brief puff of a few seconds at startup, followed by a light haze that quickly clears, should ring alarm bells - the Twin Cam engine has no valve stem oil seals and has short valve guides that can easily be over-reamed and/or wear quickly.
The Spyder chassis is undoubtedly stronger, stiffer, and offers easier access to mechanicals, but ironically devalues the car slightly - originality is becoming important. I fitted a Spyder chassis to my first baby Elan (an S4), because I was intending to keep the car, and I've also owned a Plus 2 with a Spyder chassis, so I've nothing against them, but it's definitely a bargainining tool in your favour when it comes to price...
The main concern with the solid driveshaft conversion - that it tends to stress the diff mounts (the lower torque rod mounts in particular) - is less of a problem on the Spyder chassis, since it's stronger in this area, but the upper mounting 'ears' on the diff casting can still fail (these were beefed up with an angle bracket even on the standard, Rotoflex equipped, Sprint), so if you're using solid driveshafts at least make sure you're also using the Sprint reinforcing bracket. Personally, I agree with Elan+2 that the Rotoflexes are an intrinsic part of the character of the car and all four of my Elans retained them (apart from the surge, they act as torsion springs and so influence the rear suspension behaviour), but there are those that swear by the solid driveshaft conversions, too.
The main priorities in terms of cost, when buying an Elan, are probably body condition followed by engine, followed by chassis/suspension/transmission.
If you want a car that is useable straight away, though, electrics are almost equally important - they are by far the biggest source of niggling glitches that can ruin the ownership experience. It's easy enough to re-wire an Elan, but quite time consuming and you need to be confident with a multimeter (and resigned to re-doing the dashboard and interior, while you are about it, if they are shabby).
There's a good buyer's guide/checklist on LotuElan.net and the guys on the forum over there will be able to answer any specific questions you may have.
Since you're in the North West, according to your profile, you might also want to get in touch with the Cheshire Lotus Owner's Group (CLOG); you might even be able to persuade one of them to look over the car with you.
As Elan+2 says, a good Elan is an absolute joy - one of the nicest driver's cars ever built - but a bad one will frustrate the hell out of you and empty your bank account, so better to do your research and get it right!
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