Elise Glue - how long til it unsticks?

Elise Glue - how long til it unsticks?

Author
Discussion

Thudd

Original Poster:

3,100 posts

214 months

Tuesday 12th February 2008
quotequote all
What is the lifespan like on the glue used to bond the Elise?
I had heard 12yrs, which would be pretty much the age of the early ones?

In theory it could become brittle with age - does anyone know what the adhesive actually is? Is it "Sikaflex"?

If anyone has details on what sort of adhesive it is, i'd be interested.

I have also heard that there was a change to the adhesive used as some of the early ones / prototypes peeled apart. Any details would be welcome biggrin

Cheers!

LivinLaVidaLotus

1,626 posts

208 months

Tuesday 12th February 2008
quotequote all
AFAIK it was developed specifically for Lotus, from seeing the Elise Story video. Can't be of any more help then that though I'm afraid.

Thudd

Original Poster:

3,100 posts

214 months

Tuesday 12th February 2008
quotequote all
Maybe this should be in the Elise section - mods?

clanger

1,087 posts

265 months

Tuesday 12th February 2008
quotequote all
When it turns green - time to scrap the chassis wink

Monkey boy 1

2,063 posts

238 months

Wednesday 13th February 2008
quotequote all
Mk1 chassis glue was green (turquoise colour) the Mk2's have the Tomato Ketchup colour glue.
If that goes green.............well ?

Ultrasound

358 posts

206 months

Wednesday 13th February 2008
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This thread is not funny.

clanger

1,087 posts

265 months

Wednesday 13th February 2008
quotequote all
Oh yes it is smile

Thudd

Original Poster:

3,100 posts

214 months

Thursday 14th February 2008
quotequote all
No, really, adhesives degrade, and I heard a rumour that the Elise glue was only supposed to last for 12 years or so.

I'd have thought it would have been a "known issue" among Lotii...

clanger

1,087 posts

265 months

Thursday 14th February 2008
quotequote all
Do you worry about flying in a plane?? - same technology, but at least in the Elise you're on terra firma smile

Marvindodgers

734 posts

223 months

Friday 15th February 2008
quotequote all
Monkey boy 1 said:
Mk1 chassis glue was green (turquoise colour) the Mk2's have the Tomato Ketchup colour glue.
This is not the case. My W plate 2000 year Elise is an S1 model and that has red colour adhesive. It is not a localised repair, the whole car has red adhesive.

GKP

15,099 posts

248 months

Friday 15th February 2008
quotequote all
Best way to prolong the early cars life expectancy is to rub toothpaste into the adhesive. Make sure you don't use any of the 'brightening' ones, though as they contain a mild abrasive compound.











Is the BCBBS still going?

Thudd

Original Poster:

3,100 posts

214 months

Friday 15th February 2008
quotequote all
clanger said:
Do you worry about flying in a plane??
No, but then i've never considered buying one wink

Monkey boy 1

2,063 posts

238 months

Friday 15th February 2008
quotequote all
Marvindodgers said:
Monkey boy 1 said:
Mk1 chassis glue was green (turquoise colour) the Mk2's have the Tomato Ketchup colour glue.
This is not the case. My W plate 2000 year Elise is an S1 model and that has red colour adhesive. It is not a localised repair, the whole car has red adhesive.
Oops, sorry, Most Mk1 chassis's were made by Hydro - Denmark, they're the Green ones. Hydro UK are the red ones. Mk1 on a W plate is a fairly late one, so that would make it a UK chassis

Marvindodgers

734 posts

223 months

Wednesday 27th February 2008
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Cheers for clearing that up, had me a little concerned there!

Gooby

9,268 posts

241 months

Friday 7th March 2008
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I really wouldnt worry, the chassis also use a special "screw based" fastening in the major stress points. 99.9% of the adhesive does not get exposed to UV light and the chassis have undergone test to simulate well over 100 years agressive use with no failure.

peter450

1,650 posts

240 months

Friday 7th March 2008
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Look at this way, do you really think lotus would design a chassis that falls apart after 12 years?

Such a move would effectively destroy there reputation, and pretty much be the end of lotus cars.

Whatever the glue's sell by date is it's certainly not going to be 12 years

Edited by peter450 on Friday 7th March 19:36

anonymous-user

61 months

Sunday 9th March 2008
quotequote all
GKP said:
Best way to prolong the early cars life expectancy is to rub toothpaste into the adhesive. Make sure you don't use any of the 'brightening' ones, though as they contain a mild abrasive compound.
Is the BCBBS still going?
Remember that thread well! The Barnabus Collins one was another all time classic. :-)

Barnabus

1 posts

200 months

Sunday 9th March 2008
quotequote all
The longevity of the chassis all depends upon which colour glue that Lotus used to bond it together with.

Early S1’s used red glue but the chassis on the high mileage test car came apart one winter during a testing trip to Stelvio, so the factory switched to blue glue which is less permeable and subsequent tests proved that the red glue would decompose over about 5 years, with higher mileage cars being more at risk.

It is common practice to protect both the red and blue glue by rubbing it with toothpaste during the winter, but this is problematic as repeated applications are required.

Don’t use Colgate as it seems to react with the glue and comes up in a lather. Colgate seems to have far too much fluoride in it and could cause even more damage to the glue.

Instead of using toothpaste Lotus have an official protective coating for the glue which is part no. A111H00KLINESINKER011277UJ7. It still requires re-application though and it is expensive so it is far more economical to stick with toothpaste.

The red glue is apparently stronger but the blue glue lasts longer and has more flexing in it and also has the added benefit of being approximately 3kg per car lighter, this is why they use it on the S2.

The reason the blue glue is lighter is because the red glue uses compressed atoms in a double density arrangement. So for any given length of glue, the red glue’s extra weight can be calculated using the commonly accepted formula devised by one of the original Danish engineers at Hydro.

X = (1.14712Y)*4/3Y^2 where Y is the weight of blue glue

All S2’s are manufactured using blue glue and there have been numerous problems where the blue glue turns green as it ages and this is exacerbated by extreme cold temperatures. Once green it’s far past its best, you see green on lots of cars kept outside and driven through the winter - it seems to be the salt that’s accelerating the degradation of the glue.

You need to keep a close eye on the colour of the glue, but it’s still within specification even if it has turned green as long as it never turns orange - if you have orange glue then talk to your dealer immediately as the glue is now well out of specification.

Lotus have said this method of bonding is only good for 10-12 years anyway. They know all about this problem yet still try to pretend that they have sorted the problem - You should all go and have a look under the engine cover at the chassis rails - that’s where it tends to go orange really quickly. Maybe the heat makes the degradation happen quicker?

Some owners have reported that when their glue turned green they definitely noticed a feeling of more flexing in the chassis and are worried that up-rated suspension and more powerful aftermarket engines must put even more strain on the chassis joints. It has worried some owners to the point where they won’t run with slicks anymore.

Lotus will begrudgingly replace the glue if it has turned orange within the chassis warranty period. This is a lengthy job but at least it's all under warranty though, so shouldn’t be problem. Although the car has to be returned to Hethel as it is not a dealer job.

Before re-bonding they have to immerse the chassis in acid to strip off the old glue. The benefit of this is that the chassis comes out looking like new. The VIN gets an 'R' added at the end to show this has been done.

robcollingridge

633 posts

290 months

Sunday 9th March 2008
quotequote all
Thudd said:
I have also heard that there was a change to the adhesive used as some of the early ones / prototypes peeled apart. Any details would be welcome biggrin

Cheers!
Most people crash them long before this happens.

In my owners manual their was an addendum for chassis replacement at the first F-service (due at 15 years or 150,000 miles - which ever is sooner).

Rob
http://www.elises.co.uk

psiboy

40 posts

203 months

Sunday 9th March 2008
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I covered all my visible glue with a thin layer of bathroom sealant. I was told that the veyron is covered with something similar and it would give me another year or two before the glue needed replacing. Was a complete body off job but the results were worth it. My roof no longer leaks either due to a load of sealant over the windscreen. Next time I won't use the White stuff though as it looks a bit odd on a
black elise.