Could I, should I buy an Elan +2?
Discussion
Hi there, I was hoping to get a little help from you guys if I can. I've loved the Elan +2 since I was a young'un when a friends father took us for 'a drive' which left me having to change my underwear. Never have I been in something which just seemed so right. I'm now seriously looking to buy one. However, I'm not sure it would be feasible at all...
I live in London and it would be parked on the road in Fulham so should be safe. Can this happen? Would a cover be enough to shield it from the elements, or am I being over the top?
I've never owned a classic before, am aware that there will be frequent work to do, which I have absolutely no problem with but is it managable as a sole car. It wouldn't be used for commuting, but would need to be able to cope with getting to middle Europe every so often (asking too much?). Also can anyone tell me to what extent the electrics are a problem in these cars, do they need to go to a garage or are they simple to deal with?
Finally, what do I really need to look for when veiwing cars? Where are the big problems, etc.
Asking quite a lot, so thank you very much indeed to anyone who can help.
Jonathan
I live in London and it would be parked on the road in Fulham so should be safe. Can this happen? Would a cover be enough to shield it from the elements, or am I being over the top?
I've never owned a classic before, am aware that there will be frequent work to do, which I have absolutely no problem with but is it managable as a sole car. It wouldn't be used for commuting, but would need to be able to cope with getting to middle Europe every so often (asking too much?). Also can anyone tell me to what extent the electrics are a problem in these cars, do they need to go to a garage or are they simple to deal with?
Finally, what do I really need to look for when veiwing cars? Where are the big problems, etc.
Asking quite a lot, so thank you very much indeed to anyone who can help.
Jonathan
IMHO yes, buy an Elan +2, they are stunning looking cars and make for a great drive, they are however an old design so a bit "vintage" in feel compared to a modern. I ran my old 130/5 everyday for 6 months and water leaks/misting aside I had no real problems.when it became a "weekend" toy the problems started! It developed various electrical gremlins and an unhealthy apetite for starter motors and bateries.It was never garaged during my ownership. My mum ran one daily in the late 80's for 5 years and never had a problem, it was however garaged.
As for what to look for? the chassis rots, so look for one that has either a Lotus Galvanised replacement or a Spyder spaceframe replacement. The originality freaks will want the lotus jobbie, however the Spyder is stiffer and has better access for maintenance. Also with the Spyder chassis you have the option of some rear suspension modifications(not my cup of tea).The sills have a reinforcing beam running the full length, these rot and make up the jacking points and seatbelt mounts, look for evidence of these having been replaced for either galvanised Lotus(no longer available, however Susan Miller is making identical ones) or spyder tubular ones.
at the front do the usual checks for worn bushes/wheel bearings and lower trunnions. At the back check for jack damage to the wide lower arms, corrosion in the rear spring pans/strut tube and look for signs of butchery in the alloyhub casting(they can crack and bearins can spin in them) and check the condition of the rubber rotoflex (donuts)couplings in the drive shafts.You may find these have been replaced by either c.v. joints or u/j's, some times a combination of one donut and either of the other on each shaft. This can be a worth while upgrade.
Transmission is either a Ford 4 speed with a very tall (40mph) first gear, this box has a very positive change and is very strong, there should be no selection issues or untoward noises. Then there is the Lotus five speed, from experience these have a vague rubbery change and aren't particularly strong, with synchro mesh issues and bearing problems after relatively low mileages.The fifth gear is a relavation on the motorway though! There are a couple of after market 5 speed solutions, but it depends on what chassis you have as to what your options could be. If you want to drive the car hard, get a 4 speed with one of the drive shaft conversions.
The Engine is the heart and soul of these cars, there are 3 standard states of tune, 118bhp (S/E spec) fitted with webber, 118bhp stromberg and 126bhp "big Valve"(sprint or super S/E)with either webber or dellorto carbs. The stromberg engine has a lower percieved value/desirability although I'm told its better behaved.
The engine should start easily and idle fairly smoothly, it should rev eagerly and smoothly. a slight puff of oil smoke on start up is normal, an oily haze following you isn't! do the usual mayonaise checks and look in the radiator for antifreeze, check for signs of coolant blowing over the engine bay, and when the engine is hot, that the electric fan cuts in.Also check the water pump for play/overtightened fan belt the head has to come off and the sump needs dropping to change it! . Cooling can be marginal in traffic on a hot day. The engines tend to have a few oil leaks,but it shouldn't be pouring out (dont fall for the "they are all like that mate" line).
On the body, look for starbursts cracks around the wheel arches from stones hitting the underside and the rear wings from loose luggage impacts in the boot, cracking around the headlamp pods and door handles. Paint defects are likely to be flaking, cracks, and micro blistering (like a rash of tiny spots) All indicate a poor respray at some time.
Microblistering is caused by moisture trapped in the body shell being drawn to the surface, most older restorations and original cars will have varying degrees of this. My 130/5 was covered in microblisters but still looked great after a polish from 5 feet away.
A proper body back to gel coat respray will cost at least £5K
As for diy, they are very simple cars but access for some jobs is awkward (hands like a childs with the strength of a bear are usefull!). A competent home mechanic should be able to look after one with out too many worries, there are plenty of willing advisers/helpers and mentors on lotuselan.net, setting up the webber or dellortos being possibly the most difficult task.
Parts availability is generally good, however some parts are getting rare and expensive (engines,front sidelights and outside temperature guages to name a couple!)
Give me a call on 07511284461 if you want a chat, or if you live near Daventry theres my almost finished car you are welcome to have a look at and a friends that is on the road!.
regards
Mark
As for what to look for? the chassis rots, so look for one that has either a Lotus Galvanised replacement or a Spyder spaceframe replacement. The originality freaks will want the lotus jobbie, however the Spyder is stiffer and has better access for maintenance. Also with the Spyder chassis you have the option of some rear suspension modifications(not my cup of tea).The sills have a reinforcing beam running the full length, these rot and make up the jacking points and seatbelt mounts, look for evidence of these having been replaced for either galvanised Lotus(no longer available, however Susan Miller is making identical ones) or spyder tubular ones.
at the front do the usual checks for worn bushes/wheel bearings and lower trunnions. At the back check for jack damage to the wide lower arms, corrosion in the rear spring pans/strut tube and look for signs of butchery in the alloyhub casting(they can crack and bearins can spin in them) and check the condition of the rubber rotoflex (donuts)couplings in the drive shafts.You may find these have been replaced by either c.v. joints or u/j's, some times a combination of one donut and either of the other on each shaft. This can be a worth while upgrade.
Transmission is either a Ford 4 speed with a very tall (40mph) first gear, this box has a very positive change and is very strong, there should be no selection issues or untoward noises. Then there is the Lotus five speed, from experience these have a vague rubbery change and aren't particularly strong, with synchro mesh issues and bearing problems after relatively low mileages.The fifth gear is a relavation on the motorway though! There are a couple of after market 5 speed solutions, but it depends on what chassis you have as to what your options could be. If you want to drive the car hard, get a 4 speed with one of the drive shaft conversions.
The Engine is the heart and soul of these cars, there are 3 standard states of tune, 118bhp (S/E spec) fitted with webber, 118bhp stromberg and 126bhp "big Valve"(sprint or super S/E)with either webber or dellorto carbs. The stromberg engine has a lower percieved value/desirability although I'm told its better behaved.
The engine should start easily and idle fairly smoothly, it should rev eagerly and smoothly. a slight puff of oil smoke on start up is normal, an oily haze following you isn't! do the usual mayonaise checks and look in the radiator for antifreeze, check for signs of coolant blowing over the engine bay, and when the engine is hot, that the electric fan cuts in.Also check the water pump for play/overtightened fan belt the head has to come off and the sump needs dropping to change it! . Cooling can be marginal in traffic on a hot day. The engines tend to have a few oil leaks,but it shouldn't be pouring out (dont fall for the "they are all like that mate" line).
On the body, look for starbursts cracks around the wheel arches from stones hitting the underside and the rear wings from loose luggage impacts in the boot, cracking around the headlamp pods and door handles. Paint defects are likely to be flaking, cracks, and micro blistering (like a rash of tiny spots) All indicate a poor respray at some time.
Microblistering is caused by moisture trapped in the body shell being drawn to the surface, most older restorations and original cars will have varying degrees of this. My 130/5 was covered in microblisters but still looked great after a polish from 5 feet away.
A proper body back to gel coat respray will cost at least £5K
As for diy, they are very simple cars but access for some jobs is awkward (hands like a childs with the strength of a bear are usefull!). A competent home mechanic should be able to look after one with out too many worries, there are plenty of willing advisers/helpers and mentors on lotuselan.net, setting up the webber or dellortos being possibly the most difficult task.
Parts availability is generally good, however some parts are getting rare and expensive (engines,front sidelights and outside temperature guages to name a couple!)
Give me a call on 07511284461 if you want a chat, or if you live near Daventry theres my almost finished car you are welcome to have a look at and a friends that is on the road!.
regards
Mark
Elan+2's comprehensive post covers most things, but for what it's worth:
I'd second Elan+2 on the maintenance and strength advantages of the Spyder 'spaceframe' replacement chassis, if you're not obsessive about originality, and about oil smoke. The Lotus Twin Cam engine has no valve stem oil seals, so oil tends to leak down the valve stems and burn off in a brief puff of smoke when you start even quite a healthy engine but it also has quite short valve guides and guide wear can be a real problem. Realistically, you should budget for a top-end rebuild every 40K miles (at a cost of over £1000 with a respected specialist like QED) and factor it in to your purchase price if you are looking at a car that gives more than a few seconds smoke at start-up from flat cold (make sure the owner hasn't warmed the engine up - and burn off all the oil - before you arrive to view the car).
The only other thing I'd add is to reinforce Elan+2's comments on the gearbox. The 4-speed has one of the best gearchanges of any box I've come across - a good one will have a lovely, mechanical 'riflebolt' precision - but they are very under-geared for modern high-speed touring. The 5 speed box has better ratios, but a horrible gearchange quality and a reputation for unreliability. You can now get modern Ford 5-speed conversions, at a price, which give the best of both worlds.
Depending on your budget, the Spyder Zetec conversion could be a good option, too, for an everyday car, but it doesn't solve the electrical gremlins and the rest of the orginal drivetrain isn't as unreliable as some bar-room pundits would have you believe provided you maintan it correctly, anyway.
I've owned a couple of Plus 2's (and a couple of 2-seater Elans, including a current Sprint FHC), though, and they are wonderful cars once you have acclimatised to the slightly floaty, flimsy, 'old Lotus' feel which is unique to the 60's generation cars. You've got do have commitment to run one as an only car, but they remain amongst the all-time greats!
Pigfarmer3 said:
I live in London and it would be parked on the road in Fulham so should be safe. Can this happen? Would a cover be enough to shield it from the elements, or am I being over the top?
I don't know what your neighbourhood is like in terms of potential vandalism, but if at all possible, I'd avoid a car cover. Even the breathable ones can trap enough moisture to exacerbate the osmosis ('miroblistering') problems that the paint on old Lotus' is prone to.Pigfarmer3 said:
I've never owned a classic before, am aware that there will be frequent work to do, which I have absolutely no problem with but is it managable as a sole car. It wouldn't be used for commuting, but would need to be able to cope with getting to middle Europe every so often (asking too much?).
It' good that you won't need to rely on it for commuting, but to be honest, every trip to middle Europe would be an adventure. Not that it won't get you there 4 times out of 5, but make sure you have decent European breakdown cover, just in case! Pigfarmer3 said:
Also can anyone tell me to what extent the electrics are a problem in these cars, do they need to go to a garage or are they simple to deal with?
Again, if I'm being honest, electrics are a problem with the Plus 2... even more so than on the 2-seater Elan, 'cos there's more of them. They are not complicated if you are confident with electrics and more often than not are down to bad earths or flaky Lucas components (a problem suffered by most '60's British cars... they don't call Lucas 'the Prince of Darkness' for nothing!), but for your European trips you'd be well advised to carry a butane soldering iron, multimeter, wiring diagram and assorted electrical connectors & bits of wire with you! Pigfarmer3 said:
Finally, what do I really need to look for when viewing cars? Where are the big problems, etc.
Elan+2 has covered the essentials, but you might want to look at LotusElan.net. There's a fairly comprehensive buyer's checklist you can download, amongst lots of other good advice.I'd second Elan+2 on the maintenance and strength advantages of the Spyder 'spaceframe' replacement chassis, if you're not obsessive about originality, and about oil smoke. The Lotus Twin Cam engine has no valve stem oil seals, so oil tends to leak down the valve stems and burn off in a brief puff of smoke when you start even quite a healthy engine but it also has quite short valve guides and guide wear can be a real problem. Realistically, you should budget for a top-end rebuild every 40K miles (at a cost of over £1000 with a respected specialist like QED) and factor it in to your purchase price if you are looking at a car that gives more than a few seconds smoke at start-up from flat cold (make sure the owner hasn't warmed the engine up - and burn off all the oil - before you arrive to view the car
).The only other thing I'd add is to reinforce Elan+2's comments on the gearbox. The 4-speed has one of the best gearchanges of any box I've come across - a good one will have a lovely, mechanical 'riflebolt' precision - but they are very under-geared for modern high-speed touring. The 5 speed box has better ratios, but a horrible gearchange quality and a reputation for unreliability. You can now get modern Ford 5-speed conversions, at a price, which give the best of both worlds.
Depending on your budget, the Spyder Zetec conversion could be a good option, too, for an everyday car, but it doesn't solve the electrical gremlins and the rest of the orginal drivetrain isn't as unreliable as some bar-room pundits would have you believe provided you maintan it correctly, anyway.
I've owned a couple of Plus 2's (and a couple of 2-seater Elans, including a current Sprint FHC), though, and they are wonderful cars once you have acclimatised to the slightly floaty, flimsy, 'old Lotus' feel which is unique to the 60's generation cars. You've got do have commitment to run one as an only car, but they remain amongst the all-time greats!
I run one all the year round,get one that is well sorted ,had it`s chassis replaced,factory did galv. and plastic coated,drive shafts instead of donuts,electronic ign.and it will serve you well,i prefer the 4 speed to the 5 and get a well built engine,i have few problems, bought my first one in the 70`s and wouldn`t be without one,puts a smile on your face when you go out even on a bad day.Tempus
Thank you all so much. Thats brilliant. I've been on the lotuselan.net and there is a good amount of info on there.
Unfortunately I've now got to leave the search till the new year due to work commitments, but I'll definately be feeling a lot more confident in the search when it starts.
I'll keep you all posted as to any developments.
Thanks
Unfortunately I've now got to leave the search till the new year due to work commitments, but I'll definately be feeling a lot more confident in the search when it starts.
I'll keep you all posted as to any developments.
Thanks
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