Why Lotus don't do that?
Discussion
Yesterday i know that the Ariel Atom 2 will fit the honda's 2.0 220hp engine.
I know that Ariel it's only a small company but they got more brain than Lotus company!
I don't find any reason for Lotus to continue to use Rover's K series engine.
I want honda's engine in the elise now and from factory not just for post modifications.
I'm ready to spend 50.000 euro if lotus give me an elise with 240hp!
I know that Ariel it's only a small company but they got more brain than Lotus company!
I don't find any reason for Lotus to continue to use Rover's K series engine.
I want honda's engine in the elise now and from factory not just for post modifications.
I'm ready to spend 50.000 euro if lotus give me an elise with 240hp!
Im gonna revive this thread if you dont mind. I would be pissed if Lotus used Honda engines in their cars. I HATE Honda with a passion, but love Lotus with a passion. Its bad enough engines have to be outsourced in the Lotus, but lets not even go to Honda please. With all the rice boys in the U.S., I could easily see the Elise and the Lotus name becoming another punks disaster with high wings and fart cans whilst using daddies money.
Lotus was forced to change engines to enter the U.S. market, emissions is the excuse. Most likey it was changed for marketing and sales. The yanks would not buy the thing with a 120hp grinder. Then with an unknown (sorry fellas Rover is not big there) engine manufacturer, few and expensive aftermarket upgrade options available. Lotus would have had little if any chance of success. The blokes have lawnmowers, skidoos, motorcycles all sorts of good stuff with more umphh for the motorways there then 120hp.
My vote - a new engine, designed by Lotus that is befitting one of the finest automobiles of its time. Something a touch above 300 is music to my ears.
My vote - a new engine, designed by Lotus that is befitting one of the finest automobiles of its time. Something a touch above 300 is music to my ears.
Lotusacbc said:
Im gonna revive this thread if you dont mind. I would be pissed if Lotus used Honda engines in their cars. I HATE Honda with a passion, but love Lotus with a passion. Its bad enough engines have to be outsourced in the Lotus, but lets not even go to Honda please. With all the rice boys in the U.S., I could easily see the Elise and the Lotus name becoming another punks disaster with high wings and fart cans whilst using daddies money.
yeah, the last Honda powered Lotuses were crap.
Did I say crap? Sorry, I meant F1 cars.
I used to own a Honda S2000... 240 hp. It was a great little car. But the Torgue wasn't great at low RPM. That is why I own a Esprit.
But the Honda engin was very impressive... 8900 redline with out Vtec! Add Vtec to get more torque at the low rpm and then you have a great 4 cyl! That would be my choice for the Elise.
JoeyO
But the Honda engin was very impressive... 8900 redline with out Vtec! Add Vtec to get more torque at the low rpm and then you have a great 4 cyl! That would be my choice for the Elise.
JoeyO
mgvs88 said:
My vote - a new engine, designed by Lotus that is befitting one of the finest automobiles of its time. Something a touch above 300 is music to my ears.
Which would possibly bankrupt the company, if not it'll stop all development of new models (new Esprit etc.) The Elise doesn't need 300bhp. I think Lotus do right sticking with using someone else's powerplant particularly going for something reliable like the Toyota which is not quite so peaky as the Honda.
It just kind of stinks to have tell people, yeah its a Lotus, but it has a Toyota engine in it. But its alot better than saying Honda.
I dont care how good a Honda engine is in it, if you dont live in the U.S. then you wouldnt know about all the kids with their parents money who degrade and destroy cars to their retarded fabrications. Ive seen countless BMW's ruined, on top of Lexus, Audi, even Mercedes. If the Elise had a Honda engine in it, I can bet anything it would end up in Sport COmpact Car magazine on it with high wing spoilers and Neuspeed stickers all over it. And eventually, these same kids will be degrading the name of the Elise as well after they stress to their daddy they want one for graduation... and they'll get it too.
I dont care how good a Honda engine is in it, if you dont live in the U.S. then you wouldnt know about all the kids with their parents money who degrade and destroy cars to their retarded fabrications. Ive seen countless BMW's ruined, on top of Lexus, Audi, even Mercedes. If the Elise had a Honda engine in it, I can bet anything it would end up in Sport COmpact Car magazine on it with high wing spoilers and Neuspeed stickers all over it. And eventually, these same kids will be degrading the name of the Elise as well after they stress to their daddy they want one for graduation... and they'll get it too.
Lotusacbc said:
It just kind of stinks to have tell people, yeah its a Lotus, but it has a Toyota engine in it. But its alot better than saying Honda.
I dont care how good a Honda engine is in it, if you dont live in the U.S. then you wouldnt know about all the kids with their parents money who degrade and destroy cars to their retarded fabrications. Ive seen countless BMW's ruined, on top of Lexus, Audi, even Mercedes. If the Elise had a Honda engine in it, I can bet anything it would end up in Sport COmpact Car magazine on it with high wing spoilers and Neuspeed stickers all over it. And eventually, these same kids will be degrading the name of the Elise as well after they stress to their daddy they want one for graduation... and they'll get it too.
First, everyone I've told 'I own a Lotus' to, including Americans have said 'Cool, can I have a ride' and assuming they don't have a history of heart or joint problems the answer is 'YES'. When the conversation gets around to the power plant I don't think anyone has said 'well that's a bit crap' or anything similar. With decent options like the Toyota, Honda or Rover lumps around, Lotus would be daft to re-invent the wheel.
From a modding point of view, it happens over here too. There are all sorts of modded cars, BMWs, Audis and Elises - there are supercharged ones, turbo charged ones, all sorts but I've only seen two with big spoilers on though. Given that the Elise will always have a waiting list and stateside I think they will stay in the hands of enthusiasts for the most part so Fast and Furious mods will be limited.
Joust - nice Noble
It's a "grown up" elise, with a Mondeo engine in it... Im probably abit biased as I own a honda but to me it was a huge dissapointment to see Lotus using Toyota motors (well again really)
I havnt been in an elise but I know abit about the motors as my dad owns an MGF.
Comparing the B18C (old model Integra motor) to the 1.8 K series. The honda motor makes more torque, alot more horse power and is more reliable. The only advantage of the K series is its better fuel consumption but this is also due to vastly different gear ratios.
Despite alot of people dislike of Hondas due to alot of idiots max powering their SOHC civics they make what many people (including me)consider the best NA small displacement engines in the world (make more power than the toyota motors and are more reliable)
I havnt been in an elise but I know abit about the motors as my dad owns an MGF.
Comparing the B18C (old model Integra motor) to the 1.8 K series. The honda motor makes more torque, alot more horse power and is more reliable. The only advantage of the K series is its better fuel consumption but this is also due to vastly different gear ratios.
Despite alot of people dislike of Hondas due to alot of idiots max powering their SOHC civics they make what many people (including me)consider the best NA small displacement engines in the world (make more power than the toyota motors and are more reliable)
Noble is top of the 'my next silly car' list, maybe next year 
Dejoux, I think you've got your wires crossed, the K series is a Rover unit that is in all current Elises and the MGF. The Toyota unit is the 1.8 VVTi one from the new shape Celica and does not exist in a production Elise yet (it will appear in the US version first of all, a bit later this year).
I admire Honda as their engines are technologically brilliant and reliability is excellent if they are looked after properly but in Toyota's defense they have an excellent reliability record too. I think the decision to use Toyota would have been more because they said 'Yes' and the price was right as opposed to snubbing Honda whose engines are quite expensive I believe.
Dejoux, I think you've got your wires crossed, the K series is a Rover unit that is in all current Elises and the MGF. The Toyota unit is the 1.8 VVTi one from the new shape Celica and does not exist in a production Elise yet (it will appear in the US version first of all, a bit later this year).
I admire Honda as their engines are technologically brilliant and reliability is excellent if they are looked after properly but in Toyota's defense they have an excellent reliability record too. I think the decision to use Toyota would have been more because they said 'Yes' and the price was right as opposed to snubbing Honda whose engines are quite expensive I believe.
Yes I realise the Elise uses the Rover engine atm and is moving to the toyota motor.
Honda have made over 15 million VTEC engines and not one has ever failed under warranty. Mine is still going strong after 130,000kms and I know of many that are well over 200,000 kms without even using oil. Thats despite being regularly reved to 8,000 and above.
I think the prevailance of the Honda coversions compared to Toyota conversions should speak for itself.
It may be a decision based on cost but if it results in an inferior car (which in my opinion it does) then its the wrong one.
Honda have made over 15 million VTEC engines and not one has ever failed under warranty. Mine is still going strong after 130,000kms and I know of many that are well over 200,000 kms without even using oil. Thats despite being regularly reved to 8,000 and above.
I think the prevailance of the Honda coversions compared to Toyota conversions should speak for itself.
It may be a decision based on cost but if it results in an inferior car (which in my opinion it does) then its the wrong one.
dejoux said:
Honda have made over 15 million VTEC engines and not one has ever failed under warranty.
Mine is still going strong after 130,000kms and I know of many that are well over 200,000 kms without even using oil. Thats despite being regularly reved to 8,000 and above.
That's just not true - I read about one in an S2000 that went pop after 3 months because the guys didn't check the oil level at each fill up as recommended in the manual. The great Colin Chapman said something along the lines of 'of course it uses oil, it when it doesn't, you need to worry'
dejoux said:
I think the prevailance of the Honda coversions compared to Toyota conversions should speak for itself.
Like, about 2 Honda to the 'factory approved' Toyota Elise on the way?
dejoux said:
It may be a decision based on cost but if it results in an inferior car (which in my opinion it does) then its the wrong one.
Because it's a Toyota, you drive a Honda and there is some kind of Toyota/Honda thing that I don't know about. I admire your brand loyalty but what is so wrong with the Toyota??
I have been following this thread with interest,
a question for the Americans on here, can you do much to modify the Toyota engine?
At the moment the English guys are modding their Rover Elises like mad, inc head changes, throttle bodies, exhausts, decats (i know these will be a problem in the US) cams, ecus, etc etc.
I have been told that upgrading a Toyota engine in this way is very restricted (and maybe that is what Lotus want?)
Gill
@Sinclaire
a question for the Americans on here, can you do much to modify the Toyota engine?
At the moment the English guys are modding their Rover Elises like mad, inc head changes, throttle bodies, exhausts, decats (i know these will be a problem in the US) cams, ecus, etc etc.
I have been told that upgrading a Toyota engine in this way is very restricted (and maybe that is what Lotus want?)
Gill
@Sinclaire
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