RE: Lotus to develop electric cars
Friday 19th January 2007
ZAP Obvio 828Lotus Engineering is to research the development of a new generation of electric vehicles.
Lotus to develop electric cars
Commissioned by US enviro-car company
ZAP Obvio 828
According to an Autocar report, a US-based, environmentally-concerned maker of cars has asked the Hethel-based sports car builder help it design and build a range of electric cars that are affordable, practical, and fun to drive.
Lotus' design consultancy division needs first to discover if what California-based ZAP (Zero Air Pollution) wants to do is even realistic. realistically developed. The disciplines it'll have to deploy include electric motors, batteries and charging systems, as well as styling, performance, and production costs.
Lotus will draw upon the technical skills at its centres not just at Hethel, but also Michigan and Kuala Lumpur. We don't know if it'll look like a mobile gob-stopper (see pic).
Lotus is starting to develop quite a sideline in this field. In July last year, Californian electric sports car maker Tesla asked commissioned Lotus to build its Elise-based Roadster (see links below).
Links
Discussion
Get back to me when one of these plastic ecogarten toys can take me to my parents and back in a day (shortest route 110 miles cross-country) in the dark when it's raining. I have no desire to spend the last 20 miles at 20mph with no wipers and on sidelights trying to eke out the last dregs from the battery.
Why are there two classes of electric car - the aspirational sports cars that are never seen outside a show, and these two seater city cars that are only realistic as second cars? I know there's a huge amount of work to do on the power source, and battery technology is a bottleneck (& IMO a dead-end due to the problem recharging at a motorway service station), but that doesn't entirely explain the gap.
Why are there two classes of electric car - the aspirational sports cars that are never seen outside a show, and these two seater city cars that are only realistic as second cars? I know there's a huge amount of work to do on the power source, and battery technology is a bottleneck (& IMO a dead-end due to the problem recharging at a motorway service station), but that doesn't entirely explain the gap.
Three thoughts.........
1. Coffin on wheels
2. Show me one crash tested against a HGV, go on you know you want to, you would need a stick to poke it from between the rear wheels.(Like a cat toy stuck under a fridge)
3. ZAP how does that work then? Zero eh? don't need to charge it then? is it solar?
1. Coffin on wheels
2. Show me one crash tested against a HGV, go on you know you want to, you would need a stick to poke it from between the rear wheels.(Like a cat toy stuck under a fridge)
3. ZAP how does that work then? Zero eh? don't need to charge it then? is it solar?
windymiller said:
Why do these eco-friendly things have to be so weird looking? Even the Prius looks 'different'...
Only some are different, for example there are several hybrid Lexus models that are more traditionally styled and the Civic IMA looks no different from the standard Civic saloon. I'd guess that the Prius is deliberately styled as it is because it's marketed as a eco-status symbol. Those Hollywood stars want to shout to the world how green they are.
It's the pure electric cars that have been styled by a toy marketing department that really grate. They look horribly flimsy (akin to an 80s kitcar), cost more than a basic petrol car, have no storage, and trailing a power cable across the carpark overnight is not an option. Thus, despite my commute being 4 miles I've passed them by (literally, on a bicycle, several times - but then the same could be said of a Porsche when the traffic's bad
.Wake up and smell the last few petrol fumes, because in under 50 years we will have run out of the earth's supply...
Rather than laugh at these concepts, we should be applauding any motor manufactuerer to has the balls to push this technology through to the mainstream, be it electric, or in my view the more sensible hybrid cars with could run on hydrogen or electric.
Yes the designs are some what quirky, but I feel this is done more to gain column inches in the media, simply becuase they look good on paper.
Alternative fuel combinations are coming and we need to champion the movers and shakers to push for greater integration into the existing infrastruture. You can't have cars if there are no roads, and likewise, we need to get all the fuel stations in the country converted over to offer additinoal pumps with the various new fuel alternatives.
Then it makes sense to the car buyer to change, without the worry that when they need to fill up that they are not sent on a wild goose chase trying to find a station that allows them to fill up.
If I knew that I could pull into any station and fill up with the greener alternatives I would change over tomorrow. Lotus has shown through development of their bio fuel Elise that performance is not hindered by these new and exciting alternatives...
For once, why doesn't Britian try and lead the world into a new energy revolution.
Rather than laugh at these concepts, we should be applauding any motor manufactuerer to has the balls to push this technology through to the mainstream, be it electric, or in my view the more sensible hybrid cars with could run on hydrogen or electric.
Yes the designs are some what quirky, but I feel this is done more to gain column inches in the media, simply becuase they look good on paper.
Alternative fuel combinations are coming and we need to champion the movers and shakers to push for greater integration into the existing infrastruture. You can't have cars if there are no roads, and likewise, we need to get all the fuel stations in the country converted over to offer additinoal pumps with the various new fuel alternatives.
Then it makes sense to the car buyer to change, without the worry that when they need to fill up that they are not sent on a wild goose chase trying to find a station that allows them to fill up.
If I knew that I could pull into any station and fill up with the greener alternatives I would change over tomorrow. Lotus has shown through development of their bio fuel Elise that performance is not hindered by these new and exciting alternatives...
For once, why doesn't Britian try and lead the world into a new energy revolution.
A simple back of the fag packet calculations show that leccy cars cannot work. Their eco-ness is neither here nor there, it's the amount of time it would take to re-charge them. A regular fuel stop takes around ten minutes and that includes waiting for a pump and paying for the petrol.
To be able to force enough energy into a powerpack (within 10-15 minutes of stopping/parked time) to allow around 200 miles of trouble free whirring, you'd need cables the size and weight of tree trunks whilst standing on 3 foot thick rubber mats.
At least you could warm up your Ginsters at the same time....
To be able to force enough energy into a powerpack (within 10-15 minutes of stopping/parked time) to allow around 200 miles of trouble free whirring, you'd need cables the size and weight of tree trunks whilst standing on 3 foot thick rubber mats.
At least you could warm up your Ginsters at the same time....
GKP said:
A simple back of the fag packet calculations show that leccy cars cannot work. Their eco-ness is neither here nor there, it's the amount of time it would take to re-charge them. A regular fuel stop takes around ten minutes and that includes waiting for a pump and paying for the petrol.
To be able to force enough energy into a powerpack (within 10-15 minutes of stopping/parked time) to allow around 200 miles of trouble free whirring, you'd need cables the size and weight of tree trunks whilst standing on 3 foot thick rubber mats.
At least you could warm up your Ginsters at the same time....
To be able to force enough energy into a powerpack (within 10-15 minutes of stopping/parked time) to allow around 200 miles of trouble free whirring, you'd need cables the size and weight of tree trunks whilst standing on 3 foot thick rubber mats.
At least you could warm up your Ginsters at the same time....
True but if the battery technology can get a little further down the road, perhaps it would be just be changing a pack at a station...
I imagine future electrical useful cars might rely on an on board "clean" generator charging the battery, sort of in the same way those Enormous trucks mining facilities currently use. An electric motor at each wheel and a diesel generator in the middle.
Probably lighter and more efficient than a "hybrid" direct drive engine...
~Jerrold
Still fancy the Tango from Commuter Cars, http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc Looks bonkers, but it's pretty rapid!
jerrold said:
True but if the battery technology can get a little further down the road, perhaps it would be just be changing a pack at a station...
I imagine future electrical useful cars might rely on an on board "clean" generator charging the battery, sort of in the same way those Enormous trucks mining facilities currently use. An electric motor at each wheel and a diesel generator in the middle.
Probably lighter and more efficient than a "hybrid" direct drive engine...
~Jerrold
I imagine future electrical useful cars might rely on an on board "clean" generator charging the battery, sort of in the same way those Enormous trucks mining facilities currently use. An electric motor at each wheel and a diesel generator in the middle.
Probably lighter and more efficient than a "hybrid" direct drive engine...
~Jerrold
True, some standard sized power pack is a possible route. However, getting one to fit all models from an Elise to a Espace is an issue (or a case of getting in the correct queue). Also they are likely to be suitcase sized and weigh in at 50 kilos so would need an automated swap out system. Then there's the problem of the filling station storing all the pre-charged cells and having some solar/wind/nuclear power supply handy to recharge flat units. It's not insummountable, but considerably more expensive than storing a liquid medium - so hydrogen cells are a more likely route. This retains the high-density energy storage of petrol without the encumberance of moving around a physical cell.
There'll be a transition from petrol to hydrogen over the next 25 years. The series hybrid (where a generator runs at a constant RPM at maximum efficiency) is a likely forward route. It also has a benefit of making the drivetrain-by-wire, and frees up the traditional car layout to potentially allow a greater passenger area in the same size bodyshell. This is important where tax breaks are available for smaller cars, e.g. in cities, just where the best match between green cars exists.
autoart said:
Wake up and smell the last few petrol fumes, because in under 50 years we will have run out of the earth's supply...
{snip}
If I knew that I could pull into any station and fill up with the greener alternatives I would change over tomorrow. Lotus has shown through development of their bio fuel Elise that performance is not hindered by these new and exciting alternatives...
For once, why doesn't Britian try and lead the world into a new energy revolution.
{snip}
If I knew that I could pull into any station and fill up with the greener alternatives I would change over tomorrow. Lotus has shown through development of their bio fuel Elise that performance is not hindered by these new and exciting alternatives...
For once, why doesn't Britian try and lead the world into a new energy revolution.
Not so sure about the biofuel experiment, at least in its current form. Converting corn to fuel is energy intensive and under poor conditions it can end up using more fossil fuels than biofuel is produced. The corn in the field is a very low density energy store and it needs planting, fertilising, harvesting and trucking to processing plants. The demand fro biofuel in the US has already caused the price of corn flour for tortillas in Mexico to increase 400% in a few months (the price fell by 70% from 1990 to 2006). This directly affects the supply chain & ecological benefit of using biofuels. To quote the President of Mexico: "I don't care if they have to bring it from thousands of kilometres, what matters is that this is not an argument to raise prices". Ecologically this long-distance transport of food has a negative impact; and socially, by turning maize into a cash crop, it's not a unheard of turn of events for a farmer with a full field to starve because he's under contract to sell it. And then has to have food, grown in a farm subsidised by the tax-payer (including fuel tax), shipped back to him.
Lord-Flasheart said:
Although I have never driven one, I am guessing there is no sensation of noise in an electric car?
Wouldn't that make it an emotionless drive?
Wouldn't that make it an emotionless drive?
Edited by Lord-Flasheart on Friday 19th January 16:31
Never missed the engine noise on a bicycle, and on a downhill twisty road there's plenty of fun to be had. Less flippantly, engines these days are so well insulated that most of the soundscape is from the tyres and wind noise. The sports cars beloved of this site's readers are, of course, a different matter and we'll still hanker after the burble of a V8 long after it's ceased to be. Something really special, just like the steam train that rumbles past about once a year.
One effect may be an increase in accidents with pedestrians. I, and I guess many others, associate a silent car with one that can't move; so when a Prius's reversing lights came on, I still stepped out behind it. It took a couple of seconds to register that it could still move - fortunately the driver was more awake than I was!
Edited by sad61t on Friday 19th January 17:06
to the poster who pointed out the "gap" issue. It isn't that the situation is one-or-the-other, it's that electric cars are EXPENSIVE. therefore, to make one for consumption by the public (eventually), at a price they'll even laughably consider, it has to be relatively low-spec, because any car that is competitive in all the other aspects a car could be measured by would be prohibitively expensive. The Tesla is only mildly OTT because the car it is based upon is a giant-killer, a triumph of low weight, and there are an abundance of overpriced cars that don't perform as well as the tesla, but don't have to, to command those prices. If you were to build a conventional car starting with a Zap, I'm sure someone could make it for half of what Zap will be charging.
"Only some are different, for example there are several hybrid Lexus models that are more traditionally styled and the Civic IMA looks no different from the standard Civic saloon. I'd guess that the Prius is deliberately styled as it is because it's marketed as a eco-status symbol. Those Hollywood stars want to shout to the world how green they are. "
Any idea how long combustion engines been in this earth?
We electric car needs identity too.
Why would my arse & nose be subjected to look like your combustion fart engine?, crazy!
Any idea how long combustion engines been in this earth?
We electric car needs identity too.
Why would my arse & nose be subjected to look like your combustion fart engine?, crazy!
Lotus to develop electric cars goes the heading...
Develop? No. probably research it.
The story appeared in Autocar (ie Lotus Weekly) - they'd print anything Lotus, even if it said it was a shopping trolley (in fact, I think they did! -lol).
The proper Lotus news is whether GM is gonna get them with ailing Proton.
Electric cars as a production item are a million miles away, but 'Green' is the order of news today.
For the near future the nearest you'll get to masses of 'green' cars on the road is, like mine, in it's colour!
Lots of car companies have looked into electric cars going back 40 years and until the battery problem can be overcome, forget it!
Develop? No. probably research it.
The story appeared in Autocar (ie Lotus Weekly) - they'd print anything Lotus, even if it said it was a shopping trolley (in fact, I think they did! -lol).
The proper Lotus news is whether GM is gonna get them with ailing Proton.
Electric cars as a production item are a million miles away, but 'Green' is the order of news today.
For the near future the nearest you'll get to masses of 'green' cars on the road is, like mine, in it's colour!
Lots of car companies have looked into electric cars going back 40 years and until the battery problem can be overcome, forget it!
sad61t said:
Get back to me when one of these plastic ecogarten toys can take me to my parents and back in a day (shortest route 110 miles cross-country) in the dark when it's raining. I have no desire to spend the last 20 miles at 20mph with no wipers and on sidelights trying to eke out the last dregs from the battery.
autoart said:
Wake up and smell the last few petrol fumes, because in under 50 years we will have run out of the earth's supply...
sad61t said:
Not so sure about the biofuel experiment, at least in its current form. Converting corn to fuel is energy intensive and under poor conditions it can end up using more fossil fuels than biofuel is produced.
Who needs petrol, biofuel or electric ! - didn't audi at Le Mans show us that the future of performance cars is diesel ?
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