still a lotus ?

[hal 1]

Hi
This my first time posting on general lotus stuff and this has probably been asked a thousnd times but a friend and myself were discussing whether a change of chassis/engine type is still a 'lotus', there are now new body shells available for all sorts of cars and I've heard some people are having problems with the DVLA re chassis numbers does this apply in this case ?

[bogie]

the chassis generally defines the Lotus Type number so if you change that then its pretty fundamental...engine changes dont really matter as Lotus' have very rarely had a Lotus engine in them anyway.....

[MARSHO]

Hi, Ford Zetec engine, aftermarket chassis, lotus body! Lotus or Kitcar? Just asking as I am a bit puzzled, thanks.

[Sam_68]

In terms of DVLA and chassis/registration numbers, it has long been established not to be an issue. The chassis plate on the backbone-chassied cars (RWD Elan through to final Esprits) are fitted to the body shell, and it is the chassis plate which is generally acknowleged to give the car its identity. There were dicussions a long while back, when the only chassis available were Spyder replacements, between Lotus, Club Lotus (on behalf of its members) and the DVLA. Lotus' stance was always that the bodyshell was a monocoque in its own right and that the backbone was simply a 'subframe'. Rightly or wrongly (and we all know that the glassfibre bodyshell of an Elan, Europa, Esprit or whatever is not stiff enough without the backbone attached), the DVLA accepted this. You shouldn't even bother telling them, therefore, if you fit a Spyder replacement chassis to an Elan or Europa!

In ethical terms, I'd say that a Spyder backbone spaceframe is OK (on an Elan) provided you are still using the Lotus Twincam engine and Lotus suspension geometry. It drives the same and has the same performance and character as it did before.

By the time you have fitted a fuel injected Zetec engine, a modern 5-speed gearbox and the Spyder suspension (which has different geometry and even replaces the rear 'Chapman Strut' arrangement with a double wishbone setup, the character of the car has been dramatically changed and it is no longer recognisable as a Lotus except in visual terms. Same goes for the Banks Europa cars. They are fine cars, but not really Lotus' any more...just kit cars which recycle an old Lotus bodyshell.

[hal 1]

Bogie,
I see what you mean about rare lotus engines but with a change of ford engine number and chassis maybe at the same time would that not cause problems with the SVA test that kit cars have to go through ? plus I believe that MOTs are now computer controlled to include engine numbers ETC.
I'm saying all this because I'm building a kit myself and it has to have a certain amount of parts from a donor vehicle to retain an age related plate and not a Q plate so if you're changing an engine/gearbox & chassis would it have to go through the SVA, which is what my friend claimed.

Marsho,
whats your point ?

[MARSHO]

Hi, my point being is that a lotus with a spyder chassis and a zetec engine etc etc is still(to some) classed as a lotus, but to some its a kit of parts that you could say end up resembling a Lotus.

[Sam_68]

hal 1 said:

but with a change of ford engine number and chassis maybe at the same time would that not cause problems with the SVA test that kit cars have to go through ?

As you are obviously aware, there is a 'points system' applied to major components on a kit car, to determine whether it should get a Q-plate or an age related registration. This applies to the registration/creation of a previously non-existent vehicle, however. In other words, you are approaching the DVLA to tell them that you have created a car, but that you feel that it has used enough components either new or from a single source to qualify it to have a determinate year of manufacture. You are given a new chassis number and V5 registration document, describing the car as a Westfield, or whatever. You might have used enough components from a T-reg. MK.II Escost to qualify it as a T-registration vehicle, but it is a different car...it is described on the V5 as a Westfield, not as a 'rebodied Ford Escort Mk. II'.

If you notify the DVLA of a change of engine on your 1968 Lotus Elan, they will simply sent you a new registration document showing the new engine number you have given them.

Would you inform the DVLA if you changed the front subframe on your Ford Sierra? No...thought not!

Would you inform the DVLA if you fitted a recon. gearbox to your Vauxhall Astra....or a new steering rack to your Rover 214?

Certainly, if you were dumb enough to write to them explaining that you had changed the engine, backbone chassis, gearbox and suspension as part of a rebuild, they would give you a nice Q-registration plate for your efforts, though the car would still be described on the V5 as a Lotus Elan. Quite why you would wish to do such a thing, when the 'chassis' is defined by the chassis plate and the only other component which has an identifiable number is the engine, is quite beyond me! In this case, the V5 is effectively the car's identity, as Lotus will supply you with a new chassis plate stamped up with the number on the V5. You can rivet this chassis plate to a completely new bodyshell, if you like, and nobody would be any the wiser. The backbone chassis itself is not stamped with the chassis number and, as previously stated, is classified by Lotus themselves as a 'subframe'.

It's only a problem if you are daft enough to make it one...

[MARSHO]

Seems a bit irresponsible that everything below the fibre glass is classed as the subframe!

[Sam_68]

MARSHO said:

Hi, my point being is that a lotus with a spyder chassis and a zetec engine etc etc is still(to some) classed as a lotus, but to some its a kit of parts that you could say end up resembling a Lotus.

Agreed.

There are two different issues, here, though:
1) What is the car's official identity, which is defined by the DVLA registration document.
2) Is the car an 'original' Lotus.

For me, I'd accept a Twin Cam engined Elan with a Spyder chassis as still being the same, because the chassis doesn't alter the character or driving experience in any way, and is not an externally visible alteration either.

The full Spyder Zetec conversion does noticeably alter the car's character...it handles differently, sounds and performs different. It is even visibly different, to an expert, even externally. It is no longer a true Lotus, but at best a hybrid and should be acknowledged as such. Not that this makes it any the worse...I'd have no problem with a car that was honestly described as a Spyder Zetec Elan or a Banks Europa Vauxhall, or whatever.

The question of the car's official (DVLA) identity is entirely separate. Unless the owner was stupid enough to voluntarily disclose the full extent of the component changes, the DVLA would quite happily allow it to retain it's original registration and even if you did tell them, they would still decribe it as a Lotus after they awarded it a Q-plate. Since the registration is there primarily to identify the car for official purposes, and since it still looks like the original Lotus model upon which it is based, I don't see this as an issue. After all, the nice policeman who is trying to identify you after you tore through his speed trap at 120mph doesn't really]/i] care whether your car is still fitted with the correct type of Dellorto carburettor and authentic 'Chapman signature' steering wheel, he just wants to make sure he has enough evidence to put your balls on the block!